Tying up but not..... ideas..

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apple88

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Hi all,

My mare is baffling me!
She is 17, fit, healthy, haffy/welsh type 14'1. Never mareish, but likes to get on with the job. Tack, teeth etc all fine.
So:
March 2017- azotoria one episode, confirmed via bloods, bought on after walking 1 mile hacking to hunt meet.
Diet altered, no obvious risk factors, ? possibly coming into season
March 2018- episode of azotoria, again confimed, hacking to meet.
3 weeks ago she just wasnt quite herself, she was quiet, i went SJ training and she was steady (very out of character) and refused a jump for no obvious reason. 2 days later she refused 3 jumps at a hunter trial, again very out of character but no obvious reason.
She has mildly wood chewed at all of these episodes.

last thurs she 'tied up again after 30 mins walk on a hack, exactly the same symptoms as before however bloods didnt support azotoria as her enzymes werent raised-odd! All routine bloods ok, and vet is now waiting on cushings test... she has no clinical symptoms of cushings.
Anyone else have anything similar? or can suggest anything?
 
I would try giving her vitamin E. It could be that she's low coming out of winter after not getting fresh grass for a while? Ask your vet obviously but I definitely think it's worth a try.

Mine has had two incidents of tying up, a year apart, both in Autumn. There's always the possibility of a underlying genetic condition of course but I haven't tested yet, just dealt with the numerous compounding factors that were common in both cases (cold, lack of turnout, too many days off work, exploding into fast work and high jinx without a sufficient warm up, possible low vitamin E). I feel that adding the vitamin E (after the second incident) has made a huge difference to her general workability and happiness this winter. I think that before we got her she had limited access to fresh grass over that summer so I think it's possible that we vitamin E levels had got fairly chronically low.

I don't know, that just my thoughts on my own experience and obviously a lot of it is just conjecture as I haven't done nearly enough real evidence gathering as she hates needles!
 
Hi PF,
Thank you!
When she tied up in 2017 after talking with the vet and also Bailey's horse feeds (very helpful lady called Sarah) made a few alteration to her diet and i put her on a Vitamine E and Selenium supp, she is also on a Balancer, we have good turnout.
Like you ive just tried to control every compounding factor, but as of yet have no idea whats triggering it.
I guess the underlying genetic condition maybe something the vets will look into. Its just so frustrating as you cant predict it!
thank you for your input!!x
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the Cushings test comes back positive and in fact, if it doesn't I would ask for the TRH Stim test to be done as well.
 
Mine has a known problem which causes her tying up, but she is on super high levels of vitamin E which you can't feed if it's mixed with selenium - which is toxic in high doses. You can buy just vitamin E and I would say it's worth a try as it's a great antioxidant.

Given yours seems to tie up at a specific time of the year it could be grass related. Do you supplement magnesium at all? Mine cannot tolerate grass - and spring grass is a guaranteed tie-up!

Did the vet ever test for PSSM?
 
I would also definitely test for muscle myopathy, haflingers definitely have PSSM1 in the gene pool, welshies I'm not aware of any identified but know of a few with presume myopathy.
 
I had something very similar - standard tests proved inconclusive. Horse was clearly tying up and it had become a regular issue.

Finally figured out is was due to a mineral imbalance which had caused a calcium deficiency (and a believed excess of potassium and lack of magnesium) and had really caused a lot of health issues with my poor horse!

This was mostly caused by a high percentage of clover in our grazing.

It's taken months and we have had to put horse on a dry lot but he is loads better. I followed the advise of the Calm Healthy Horses website to sort him out.
 
Scarlett said:
I had something very similar - standard tests proved inconclusive. Horse was clearly tying up and it had become a regular issue.

Finally figured out is was due to a mineral imbalance which had caused a calcium deficiency (and a believed excess of potassium and lack of magnesium) and had really caused a lot of health issues with my poor horse!

This was mostly caused by a high percentage of clover in our grazing.

It's taken months and we have had to put horse on a dry lot but he is loads better. I followed the advise of the Calm Healthy Horses website to sort him out.
Click to expand...

There's been a fair few posts on the various forums I follow with horses that tie-up just in spring which I suspect is due to the excessive potassium levels in grass.
 
SEL said:
There's been a fair few posts on the various forums I follow with horses that tie-up just in spring which I suspect is due to the excessive potassium levels in grass.
Click to expand...

I knew my horses issues were related to grass but I assumed it was hind gut (history of acidosis) until the treatment for that stopped working. He got worse at a new yard in one particular field which was thick with clover, sadly the penny didn't drop until a couple of years later and by that point we were considering PTS as we couldn't identify what was up with him. We've had to remove all grass and leave him with soaked hay only and he has been improving. Looking back all my horses who were in that field developed potassium related issues, thankfully the others came through it too.
 
SEL said:
Mine has a known problem which causes her tying up, but she is on super high levels of vitamin E which you can't feed if it's mixed with selenium - which is toxic in high doses. You can buy just vitamin E and I would say it's worth a try as it's a great antioxidant.




Did the vet ever test for PSSM?
Click to expand...

this. I would also try vit E but at a high dose. There is no way she could have been on high vit E if it was in a combined vit E and selenium supplement. I would be looking at 10000iu per day of natural vit e.
You can test for type 1 PSSM yourself via a simple hair test. I think it is around £40.

My haflinger had/has cushings badly. Tying up was not one of the symptoms.
 
Hi all!

Thank you very much for all your advice!

A quick update, I hacked on Wednesday evening after talking to the vets and she was absolutely fine.

No deficiencies have come back with her bloods and the cushings was also normal.
The vets are sending some off to test for an underlying inflammatory cause and have said continue with light work!

We have grass but no clover and interestingly they are not eating a lot of the grass species.
Thanks again all and il keep you posted!
 
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