Tying up - Prevention?? And a small update on my lot!

MillbrookSong

MillbrookSong

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Joined
18 December 2005
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Location
Herefordshire
heartbuster.blogspot.com
Hello all,

Havnt posted in a while since some not so good BE runs. So thought i would let you all know how we are going now!!

We did the PC challenge and Blenheim and he was good, we had 1 stop and 4 down but we got round and got inside the quite tight time due to Song being soo great at XC!!

We also did a local HT last weekend which was about 3ft3 ish and he flew round and we had FUN!! Didnt come any where but i think i will be a HT convert for the winter with a bit of dressage thrown in.

Buster is also back in work and is being as entertaining as usual, and will start trot work this week and fingers crossed be racing in Jan.

Best bit of news though is that i finally passed my HGV at the 3rd attempt!! So i have freedom!

Right so on to the main point of my post.

A friend has a 5 or 6 yo 17.2 ish TB that is a P2Per. He tyed up about 4/5/6 times last year a few times when on the gallop and the rest on the roads doing walk and trot exercise. Hes come in this year a far stronger horse so we all thought he would be fine but today he tyed up for the 1st time this season.

So he will now when back in work go on the water for 15 mins before exercise, be turned out as much as poss and maybe over night so the main change would be the food.

Hes hard to keep weight on and is quite sharp.

Ive done a bit or research in to why and theres some thoughts that its a vit E & selenium or an electrolyte dificiency

So thoughts/answers on a postcard please, open to most!!

Thanks
 
Yes thats the most logical thing i found on the web!

EPSM
Since the discovery of EPSM and its relation to tying up, dietary management has been very effective at managing this problem. To clear out the abnormal amount of glycogen and carbohydrate from the muscle cells requires 3 to 4 months with improvement noted for up to one year after instituting the diet. So do not expect rapid results, but with patience they will come with most horses being normal within a year.

Current recommendations are to remove as much carbohydrate as possible from the diet and substitute oil and protein as an energy source. Substituted for the grain portion of the diet is 2 cups (app. 1 lb) of vegetable oil per 1000 lbs and alfalfa pellets. A basic formula for initial estimation of amounts for a 1000 lb horse would be:
Current daily grain ration (in pounds) - Oil (in cups) = Alfalfa Pellets (in pounds)

For example take a 1200 lb horse receiving 5 lbs of grain a day: 5 (lbs of grain a day) - 2.4 (2 cups a day /1000 lbs x 1200 lbs) = 2.6 lbs of alfalfa pellets a day.

Of course this is best fed divided twice daily and changes should be made slowly. A problem in this diet is that high fat diets are may not be palatable to some horses and you may have to reduce the oil portion slightly to get the horse to eat it, particularly if the pellet portion is small. Some adjustments may need to be made. The horses weight should be watched and adjusted using the pellet portion of the diet. Of course during this time grass and hay should be available as usual. If you love in a selenium deficient area of the country you should consider having vitamin E (normal = 2.5 -4.0 ug/ml) and selenium (normal = 180 - 240 ng/ml) values run on the blood.
 
I've been told by a local national hunt trainer that feeding bread soda (which I think is the same as baking powder, just the Irish name for it) as a supplement can help prevent tying up. He was told by his vet and we've been giving to a horse who tied up a few times and fingers crossed no problem since. I have no idea how or why it makes any difference, but it seems to work.

Also well done on the HGV test, I've got my second test booked and can't wait to be able to get about without having to beg someone to sit in with me!
 
Well done on passing the HGV,

Tying up, you could try contacting Royal on her, she knows alot about it, if I had problems with it she would be my first point of call.
 
Thanks A_B!! ;)

Ok, firstly the bicarb....this generally is a bit of an old wives tail..it is said to work by reducing lactic acid and unfortunately not all forms of tying up are caused by this...for instance some are caused by excess calcium storage..this form is commonly seen in racehorses......however, it can perk your horse up (race horses used to be given 'milkshakes'...large doses of bicarb just before a race to improve stamina).......my horse had been on it for about a year and still tied up...:(

Secondly, turning a horse out full time is not necessarily a good idea....excess intake of grass can cause an episode (it doesn't have to be good quality grass!)..so the stable v turnout routine has to be strictly managed. My horse has just been switched onto the winter paddock, which has been rested for most of the summer and even though she's only out during the day, she HAS to have her muzzle on or the amount of grass will cause another attack.

Believe it or not, there is no actual scientific proof that vit E and selenium helps prevent tying up, however because some horses that have been on it have not tied up (or at least as frequently), quite a few people swear by it.
Vets generally do not recommend supplementation unless the blood tests specifically indicate a deficiency.

Feeding salt / electrolyte daily is definitely recommended...

Can you tell me more about the horses turnout and stabling routine and current feed. Also how often he is worked and what the warm up cool down routine is....

I can certainly help with feed...
 
We were advised by a local trainer to add epsom salts to the water bucket with our TB and it seems to help.

She has tied up a few times over the 5 years we have owned her, and if honest, usually an attack was caused because she hadn't been warmed up properly.
she dropped her weight quite badly over one winter and we went to out local feed 'specialist'. They advised us to put her onto build up and a couple of weeks later she had her first attack.

We now feed her on Alfa oil and speed beet and it works for her.
 
Glad to hear all is well with your lot!

Beau Ties-up and we have found the best management for him is to avoid giving him too much rich hay (v.green lucerne) or green chaff. Also if he has a day off easy day cut his grain out.
I know that it is not meant to be very good to change the diet abruptly but as its just for a day it doesnt seem to cause any problems. If we dont he will tie up a day or 2 later.

Anthoer thing we found is that Barley triggered his episodes, he copes very well on a grain mix with oats in but can deal with one containing barley.
From talking to other people, vets & internet others have mentioned that they found something quite odd could trigger an episode.

As Im sure you found out online there are lots of causes of tieing-up, and it is a bit of trial and error to find out what will work for you. We found that keeping a detailed daily diary of work and food helped us ID the common factors.
 
My old horse used to tie up, sometimes really badly!

Exercise,turnout and routine was key. He HAD to go out everyday on grass that wasnt too rich. He needed to mooch around, you could not keep him in 24/7. He was best if ridden when brought in from the field. He was much more likely to tie up if you rode him in the morning after he had been standing in his stable all night.

He couldnt cope with changes of routine. If you started bringing him during the day and out at night in the summer he would tie up. I dont know if this was due to him having more hours on the grass... or just that his body was used to the in at night/out during the day routine or possibly that he was ridden in the afternoon after standing in all day. I just knew that he could not come in during the day.

If we had a show in the morning. We would try and turn him out for an hr before loading him. If that wasnt possible he would go on the walker for a bit. When we got to the show we would walk him round for 1/2 an hr before getting on and warming up slowly.

If he HAD to be kept in his stable during the day he would go on the walker every 2 hours for 10-15 mins.

He was fed fibre based feeds, he couldnt cope with cereals. He also had pink powder in his feed.

Once we found out what worked for him he rarely did it again.

Just to recap though the most important thing to him was that he wasn't exercised straight after standing around, he had regular turnout, he was warmed up slowly and not fed cereals.
For racing ERS pellets are a good feed, high energy but low cereals.

Im sure once your friend has learned how to manage his azotoria it will get better. Also the longer they go without an attack the less likely they are to have another one. The fact he has just had an attack will mean he will be very prone to another one in the near future.

Hope that helps :)
 
We fed Equine Americas Tyguard in her evening feed, cut down haylage and apples....reduced the carrots too. As you know she competed at a highish level and we had no tying up issues once we had found tyguard. All competition safe and we even used it at the Paralympics in 2004, having first cleared it with the vets.
 
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