Ugh, not sure what to do, help?

Bossdog

Bossdog

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Hello
I haven't been on here for ages but just had to ask some advice.... we have two new ladies on out yard who purchased a pair of ex racers in the spring. They are what I would describe as novices (instructor came at first to show them how to put on a rug, lead in from the field and some basic riding lessons). However, instructor no longer comes and so the ladies are getting on with it themselves, I don't have a huge problem with them, it's their horses and they can do as they please, they wouldn't take any advice anyway so I keep well out of it. The problem now though is that their feeding knowledge is limited and they don't believe that horses need regular feeding. They get a breakfast in the morning and are then turned out all day in mediumweight rugs and no hay. The mare has been losing weight for a couple of weeks now but as this snow has dropped, I am more becoming more concerned. Made a phonecall to them yesterday morning, nice and polite "It's snowing again, there's no hay in the field and tehy're fighting, would you like me to give them some". They reluctantly agreed so gave them a couple of sections which they gobbled up before lunchtime. This morning there is a huge note in the tack room saying NOT TO GIVE THEM ANY HAY. Now I am all for keeping my nose out of others business but I am struggling watching this mare drop weight so quickly. Trouble is there is only us and them on the yard, the YO is a farmer who has no interest and leaves us to get on with it and I don't want to go stirring up any trouble (ladies are ever so slightly scary, don't want to get on teh wrog side of them). So, what would you do? I can't afford to feed them, not to mention it would be rude to feed someone else's horses anyway. I have rung a charity to ask their advice but I am still waiting for a phone call back.

So sorry to sound like a busybody, I'm really not like that and I try not to get involved with other liveries and how they keep their horses, but i can't ignore this weight loss especially as she wasn't particuallrly well covered in the autumn :(
 
Oh I know exactly what you are going through!! I've had the same problem (luckily found a new place for my horses..leaving on sat!!) at the yard I'm at. Horses thrown out in the fields and forgotten about, feet not done, not wormed, and not fed even now!! I'm afraid I've taken the cowards way out and I'm throwing hay out (my own hay I add) to them in the evenings when the yard is empty. :( Can't say what I will do once I've left, but as a new livery who already had the RSPCA's interest I suspect they will be visiting the yard very soon anyway so I'm hoping they spot them.
 
I think you need to be blunt - get them both down, explain your concerns, point out the weight loss/ breed problems etc.

Make it clear you are only trying to help, but I would tell them if the situation doesn't improve you will ask someone from local welfare, WHW, Happa etc to come and have a word with them.

It is not your fault they are clueless, but not the horses either and I couldn't turn a blind eye either.

I would rather take action and have a bad atmosphere then see the horses suffer.
 
the YO is a farmer who has no interest
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The law says that he has to take an interest.

So first port of call - as always - is with him. Suggest that he starts including hay in the price of the livery, that way all the horses should get hay throughout the day.

And if all else fails - report him and the owners to the WHW.

Sounds to me as if these ladies are doing all on a budget - a non existant one.
 
This sounds like a hard situation :( If they're scary and likely to make life hard if you 'offend' them (not saying you would be offensive, just that they may take it like that) then i'd steer clear of a direct approach. I'd try finding articles on the internet and in magazines about correct feeding and equine digestion and stick them up in the feed room. Other than that, you may just have to leave well alone until either the owners realise the mare is dropping weight or she becomes bad enough that a welfare organisation can intervene :( Not much help im afraid but short of feeding the mare yourself there's not much you can do :(
 
cobgirlie said:
Oh I know exactly what you are going through!! I've had the same problem (luckily found a new place for my horses..leaving on sat!!) at the yard I'm at. Horses thrown out in the fields and forgotten about, feet not done, not wormed, and not fed even now!! I'm afraid I've taken the cowards way out and I'm throwing hay out (my own hay I add) to them in the evenings when the yard is empty. :( Can't say what I will do once I've left, but as a new livery who already had the RSPCA's interest I suspect they will be visiting the yard very soon anyway so I'm hoping they spot them.
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If you are going I would report them straightaway! - Don't leave it to luck - noone will suspect if the RSPCA are already on one of their cases - you are just making sure they don't miss any other welfare issues on the yard!!
 
Call the BHS welfare department and report them. You can say that you believe it to be ignorence rather than deliberate cruelty but you need to get someone involved who they will listen to.

The BHS are horse specific and therefore much better equipped to deal with this than the RSPCA and they can deal with them by educating and supporting them rather than seizing the animal.

Do not leave this poor horse to loose more weight when you are equipped to do something.
 
Thanks everyone, nice to be reassured that I'm not just a busybody! Amymay, just out of curiosity, where does the YO stand legally, is he ultimatly responsible for the goings on on his yard, I do wish he would take more interest. We are very lucky to be near Bransby so I am talking to them at the moment, just waiting on a phonecall from their welfare guy. Just going to have to swallow the bad atmosphere! Gulp!
 
amymay said:
The law says that he has to take an interest.

So first port of call - as always - is with him.
Agree with this.

This needs to be tactfully pointed out to him. Even if he has no interest in horses, he cant ignore their welfare.
Difficult one for you, as has been said above. If you can talk to them face to face you have done your best. If they take offence when you have been polite, that is not your fault. If you then have to call in a welfare person, you cant be accused of not trying the polite approach.
Lets face it, we are at the start of winter.
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I was under the impression that welfare organisations can't do anything unless the horse is in seriously bad condition? So wouldn't be able to do anything in this case just yet?
 
I'm hoping they will just be able to advise the owners on dietary needs, they are not taking my word for it so hoping a nudge from someone with more authority will encourage them to find out a bit more about feeding. It really is ignorance and a reluctance to take advice, they are not cruel people... unfortunalty another case of wrong owner/wrong horse combo.
 
do your horses all share a field?

if they do then maybe you could speak to the farmer and ask him to provide a big bale of haylage/hay and split the cost between each owner. he could say it's to help save the grass or anything like that. at least if it comes from him and he's already put the bale in the field then they can't really do anything about it.
 
Amymay, just out of curiosity, where does the YO stand legally, is he ultimatly responsible for the goings on on his yard
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The horses are on his land, and are therefore ultimately his responsibility. By not ensuring their welfare, or acting when there are issues he is negating his responsibility in law. So any prosecution would name him as well as the owners.

The old Farmer Not Interested card simply doens't apply any more - thank goodness.
 
PonyIAmNotFood said:
I was under the impression that welfare organisations can't do anything unless the horse is in seriously bad condition? So wouldn't be able to do anything in this case just yet?
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Certainly BHS welfare officers can provide education and support in cases like this. I'm not sure about WHW. I think RSPCA do tend to do nothing unless they have an emaciated horse and obvious neglect or cruelty.
 
bertthefrog said:
If you are going I would report them straightaway! - Don't leave it to luck - noone will suspect if the RSPCA are already on one of their cases - you are just making sure they don't miss any other welfare issues on the yard!!
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I will, I'm going to ensure they know which horses too look at because they have now been rugged to hide the bones. :( Theres other on going issues with dogs too so I think they'll have a field day.
 
KristmasKatt said:
Certainly BHS welfare officers can provide education and support in cases like this. I'm not sure about WHW. I think RSPCA do tend to do nothing unless they have an emaciated horse and obvious neglect or cruelty.
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All of the organisations will by law by restricted as to what they can do if it's not a section 4 AWA case. i.e if it doesn't require immediate seisure, (which only occurs at a body condition score of 1), if they are concerned they will issue advise and an advisory notice, the situation is then logged on the system and they have a point of reference for further visits to see if the horses have gained or lost weight. As to who to contact, the rspca are of course the biggest organisation, but as such have a lot of other non horse related calls to deal with too, and you're not always guaranteed to have a horse expert attend, but if a case were to ensue then I would go straight to them, missing out the middle man as no other organisation bring prosecutions, the BHS I haven't had good experience from but I would rate the WHW, horse specific and good attendance times.

The downside of calling in an outside agency is that as it is only you and the 2 ladies there, there is a good chance of them guessing who called the agency in. But I wouldn't let that stand in the way of the welfare of the horses.

Good luck, as said by amymay, try the land owner/farmer/YO as your first point of call.
 
Thanks so much for all the help. Will have another word with the YO and casually mention his liability of it's found that they are neglected, failing that, I am currently in discussion with Bransby who we are lucky to have nearby and they are being great, fingers crossed these ladies take heed... I am worried about the consequences but at the end of the day, if I arrived at the yard and the mare had collapsed in two foot of snow I would never forgive myself..... thanks again guys, really appreictae it!
 
I just wanted to say good for you for not turning a blind eye to this. Says to me you are a true horse lover as you are watching out for them irrespective of the possible problems it may cause you. On behalf of those horses thank you for being there. Dread to think what could happen if somebody doesn't intervene soon, especially in these dire conditions.
 
Just a thought but what about contacting the original instructor lady. Presumably they have fallen out anyway, so can't fall a lot further, but if she was prepared to say that the rumour is going around that they aren't feeding their horses properly and there is talk of the welfare organisations getting involved, it might just jolt them into action.

There was a very similar situation near us and we sent a very blunt local farmer round to say that he had persuaded us not to go to the welfare officers until he had talked to the owner, but he just thought he should know that if he got a reputation for animal cruelty the local backlash would be very bad.

It worked!
 
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