UK Horse Culture?

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MosMum

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Ok guys help me figure out horse culture in the UK (I'm American). I'm not in any way having a go, and I haven't made up my own mind about any of this as yet, just trying to figure it all out.

We have the same dog-type-idealism in the US as I see here (A Dog is for Life, Not Just for Christmas), but I never witnessed it among horse people. This forum is my first experience of 'PTS rather than sell'.

Is that a general UK belief system, or that of a select few?

Is it among the same lines as those who believe rehoming dogs via a newspaper is irresponsible or breeding mixed breed puppies to sell?

Thanks for any info or oppinions on this :)
 
Horses are different from dogs, people sell on horses that are not fit to work, but cover up problems with drugs. Horse then reacts to pain and has a miserable life. If a horse it not fit to work it doesn't usually have a value, and it's up keep will be a lot greater than that of a dog.

Now PTS rather than look after in retirement - thats another question.
 
I think times are hard not many horses are holding value at the moment, and there has been several veterans 18+ "free to good home, suitable for breeding etc" adverts about on free advertising websites.

I dont think we PTS for the sake of it, but in this situation unless a sensible home came forward that would not abuse the situation then yes I would properly do this.

If for example my arthritic pony who loves to roll couldnt get back up one day I wouldnt hesitate to make that decision.
 
*Prepares to be shot down in flames*

I recently sold my witchy, aggressive WB mare because I admitted that she was too much for me and she was going to end up causing someone a serious injury. Lovely for the vast majority of the time but had a viscious temperament at shows which is something of a drawback for a competition horse.

Lots of people would have said PTS or keep rather than sell on a problem horse but I wasn't in a position to do either.

Lil is now happily competing with a professional SJer who clearly had the experience and confidence to do what I and her previous owners had not.

I don't regret what I did for a second, I'm happier now and I'm 100% sure that Lily is happier. I actually think the English attitude that "if I can't deal with this problem then no-one else will be able to" is a bit arrogant.
 
Ok, thanks guys, I think I see the point about passing on a problem horse. I am trying to remember if the cattle horse ranch ever had this problem. We did have a horse aquired via market (outbid meat man) who had been attacked by a mountain lion, beautiful paint she was. I don't remember Dale (ranch owner) ever trying to break her to ride, but based on history of prior to attack her being a very calm, quiet horse, and her conformation etc he did use her as a broodmare, she bred 3 foals and all stayed on at the ranch as cattle horses.

I can't remember ever having to sell on due to horse being unmanagable, so perhaps we just weren't in that situation.
 
wellsat said:
*Prepares to be shot down in flames*

I recently sold my witchy, aggressive WB mare because I admitted that she was too much for me and she was going to end up causing someone a serious injury. Lovely for the vast majority of the time but had a viscious temperament at shows which is something of a drawback for a competition horse.

Lots of people would have said PTS or keep rather than sell on a problem horse but I wasn't in a position to do either.

Lil is now happily competing with a professional SJer who clearly had the experience and confidence to do what I and her previous owners had not.

I don't regret what I did for a second, I'm happier now and I'm 100% sure that Lily is happier. I actually think the English attitude that "if I can't deal with this problem then no-one else will be able to" is a bit arrogant.
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absolutely 'wellsat' as long as you let the buyer know why the horse is being sold and make sure you are not selling to a novice or trying to pass the horse off as something it is not then that is absolutley fine. I agree that just because one horse/rider combination dont work doesnt mean the horse is unusable. Some people need to think outside the box...
 
I think the PTS rather than sell is if the horse is (for what ever reason) no longer suitable for ridden work and the owner is unable to keep the horse in it's retirement. So rather than pass the horse on to an uncertain future it would be considered kinder to PTS. Also has alot to do with the over production of horses over here. It gives those towards the bottom of the chain virtually no value - can lead to a life passed from pillar to post - no kind of decent life for an intelligent feeling animal.
This is also why breeding from an un-exceptional mare would be considered an irresponsible decision when there are so very many unwanted horses around already.
 
Well put Wellsat-most of the time problem private horses are simple a mis match of horse and owner.There is no reason why those horses can't do well elsewhere-asw long as the sale is honest and everyone knows what the horse is it can be a very good end for all.

However,I would always think twice about selling an older horse(which to me is more late 20's then teens ;) ) there is never an garrentee that they will be safe after we sell,but the odds for old horses finding good homes are much less.
Whatever the reason for you not being able to keep it,a horse that has given you many years of service deserves some time in the field followed by a dignified end rather then the uncertenty that faces most old horses when sold on.
 
I think horses in the UK are very much seen as pets. Many people will keep them to the end of their days (and as with dogs, some people are reluctant to PTS even if the horse is no longer well, because it is their beloved pet).

In my experience, people here are very particular about their horse and yes, many do feel that "only they" can look after it well. If you take a look at livery yards, it is very common to have DIY yards where you find 25 odd women all doing things their particular way - and their way only. Abroad I have seen many stables where there is a rota for doing the feeds, the stable rent may include a groom Mon-Fri but the liveries all take turns to do the whole yard 1 weekend each. It is not common in all countries to do your horse yourself 3 times a day because it means you don't have time for a life, and it would be more efficient to do ALL the horses on the yard once a week and take turns ;-)

Basically there are many horse "cultures" within the UK... some people are serious competition riders... racing yards.... pet owners, some of which are the horse equivalent of "cat ladies" ;-), you have travellers that keep horses, hunts, livestock farmers with a couple of horses... the attitudes are likely to differ within those groups, just as they would in the US.
 
MosMum said:
Ok, thanks guys, I think I see the point about passing on a problem horse. I am trying to remember if the cattle horse ranch ever had this problem. We did have a horse aquired via market (outbid meat man) who had been attacked by a mountain lion, beautiful paint she was. I don't remember Dale (ranch owner) ever trying to break her to ride, but based on history of prior to attack her being a very calm, quiet horse, and her conformation etc he did use her as a broodmare, she bred 3 foals and all stayed on at the ranch as cattle horses.

I can't remember ever having to sell on due to horse being unmanagable, so perhaps we just weren't in that situation.
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Yes but as she was on a cattle ranch she could just be turned out, bred from or just left to grass. We have less land, have livery yards and not many ppl have their own land. Upkeep is more expensive and so sometimes horses that cant be ridden are PTS - it depends on the circumstances - i believe if a horse is in pain then yes, if a horse just needs retiring then could be rehomed as companion but depends if a good home can be found - if you cant and cant afford the horse then PTS is an option.
 
I've also found that people on this forum recommend PTS much more often that I would find talking to my horsey friends in the flesh, this may be because my friends are more hobby riders (albeit who compete and may have multiple horses) than professionals or people who make their living from horses but there would be very few of my friends who would even suggest PTS unless it was an absolute last choice i.e. horse was in pain which couldn't be relieved with drugs and from which there was no chance of recovery.

I don't personally know of many people who have had horses PTS due to them being unable to be ridden most of the people I know keep them in happy retirement even if that means they don't have anything to ride. I do find it sad when a horse has given someone many years of pleasure and when it gets old they want to give it away or have it PTS just because it can't be ridden anymore or compete but that is just my opinion!

That doesn't mean I'm opposed to selling horses, if you think a horse would get on better with someone else because it doesn't want to do the same thing as you or if it is too much for you the best thing for that horse is often for it to be sold provided you are honest about it when selling.
 
Lynsey&Smartie, I agree that more people recommend PTS on the forum than on the yard... but don't you think this could also be because it is easier to recommend PTS on a forum than tell someone face to face? (And on the forum, people ask for the advice, which they might not have on the yard, so it is a bit of a different situation.) Also, it is easier to give an "objective" opinion on a forum where there are no feelings involved - once we know and love the horse in question and talk to a friend, it is a lot harder to say "consider PTS".
 
I can see how amount of land would certainly be a consideration and agree without reservation that a horse in pain who can't be made comfortable should be PTS.

I'm still undecided how to feel about an older horse being sold or pts... I am glad I don't have to make that decision anytime soon.
 
Personally for me my horses are for life, come what may. I work in dog rescue so see the results of our 'throw away' society everyday so when I made the decision to take on my horses then I knew it was a decision for life..mine and theirs. If for some reason they became too much for me (luckily both my boys suit me perfectly!) then I would find them loan homes who could cope but the bottom line is they would always be my responsiblity and in my care.

It's the way I was bought up and the way I will always be. 4 out of my dogs would have been PTS by the majority of owners but I am a stubborn old mule and won't be beaten by anything..esp a dog or horse so they can throw the worse at me and I'll find a way round it. I don't have kids therefore my animals can have 100% of my attention so it's a different situation for me than most 'normal' people.
 
I have 2 retirees - an older pony who has had a bad tendon injury along with the start of navicular and arthritis and a 14 yo cob who is in perfect physical health but has a screw loose. Because of these two I can't afford a horse to ride or tbh even a share. That's fine btw.

I have already decided that if I can't keep them the cob will definitely be pts. I have no doubt that there are people out there who would be able to handle him but to be quite honest, I don't think that they would want him - if they are any good they can get much easier and more reliable horses rather than my beloved stress head who would take 6 months minimum to settle into a new home.......and why should they? My concern is more for him. He's very flashy to look at but he's not easy and I fear that he would be passed on again and again, each time further down the food chain. IMHO, while it would break my heart to watch a healthy horse be shot it would be better for him in the long run.

The pony could potentially go as a companion - but again, I would have to consider if the risks would outweigh the benefits. Horses are not cheap to keep and there is no shortage of good sound ones around that will "pay back" their owners with riding etc. I would wonder why anyone would want an ageing pony with health problems that will cost time and money when they don't have the history with him that I have?

Back to the OP, due to the shortage of space in most parts of this island difficult horses are harder to keep because we tend to share our facilities with other people who aren't prepared to tolerate their behaviour (rightly or wrongly) and as horse values have dropped and the cost of keeping have risen it has become harder to sell/pass them on. I may get shot down for this :o but over the past 20 or so years there seems to have been a huge influx of people into the horse world, many of whom didn't have the opportunity to play around (usually) as kids with many different horses - the good, the bad and the ugly :) As a result (and this is JMHO!) there are quite a few people who can honestly say that they have been riding/had horses for 25 years but have never had to to deal with any of the "difficult" horses out there and so they just get passed on mainly due to lack of experience. I know that's not true of everybody but it appears to be a valid option for many

I personally have no problem with PTS if an animal is unwanted - it's far from from the worst option for the animal. Waving them off your premises without any care or concern for their future is worse IMHO.
 
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I hate having horses pts, it is bl00dy horrid, but at the end of the day it is about the horse not me or the money.
But there are far worse fates out there for them than a dignified ending with their faithful human by their side
 
I think some people get a bit extreme as a reaction to seeing old horses up for sale when they can no longer work, or people trying to pass on dangerous horses, or horses that have long-term physical problems. I think they sometimes too quick to write off a horse just because it is old. Recently people were ranting about a perfectly healthy 16 year old horse being sold, when I think many 16 year old horses have a lot to offer and can have many years of useful life left. However, if your horse has become too ill to work, too old and unwell and you don't want to look after it any more or is really dangerous and has been given some expert "second chances", then I do think pts might be the kindest thing to do.
It's about the owners taking responsibility for their horses future when the horse has no working future, I think.
 
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