UK Laws On Hoof Trimming Under Review

There does appear to be a difference between farrier paddock trims and barefoot trims. The main one being how the base of the wall is dressed/trimmed. I don't hold with performance trim myself as performance comes with hoof health and work built up at the horses pace. I don't believe you can trim in any way whatsoever to make a horse perform. lol You can trim to make a horse sore or less capable though. You can trim, add shoes and pads to change gait as well, but is this always desirable for the horse, especially in the long term?

Farriers who moan about trimmers I am sure also moan as vehemently about non registered/trained farriers and farriers who cause deliberate harm such as the case above. lol
 
Hi, I saw a reference to minerals and vitamins on another post about barefoot. I have a 6 y o who has never had shoes on and am trying to keep this so. Currently we are only hacking on a bit of tarmac and a bit of schooling on grass, only being ridden 2/3 times per week. Farrier just trims the flarey bits. Is there anything else I should be doing? He also has bad skin/sweetitch issues so does get linseed/brewers yeast and as least sugar as possible except of course it is in the grass! Anything I should ask/look for in the trim? Not sure I coudl do it myself he leans and is heavy and I have a bad back!!
 
amandap said:
There does appear to be a difference between farrier paddock trims and barefoot trims. The main one being how the base of the wall is dressed/trimmed. I don't hold with performance trim myself as performance comes with hoof health and work built up at the horses pace. I don't believe you can trim in any way whatsoever to make a horse perform. lol You can trim to make a horse sore or less capable though. You can trim, add shoes and pads to change gait as well, but is this always desirable for the horse, especially in the long term?

Farriers who moan about trimmers I am sure also moan as vehemently about non registered/trained farriers and farriers who cause deliberate harm such as the case above. lol
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Agree with this. I've cut back on exercise during the heatwave and fly epidemic for the past 3 weeks. Crikey, their feet are obviously a reflection of the work they do.
 
horserider said:
There does need to be regulation to prevent anyone being able to trim a horse's hoof regardless of competence. A friend has just taken on a horse absolutely crippled by a previous owner who did her own trimming. Something needs to be done to stop idiots causing such pain.
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Yes regulation would be helpful but not by the FRC.

As someone who has had my horses lamed by 4 farriers and kept sound by 2 trimmers (uknhcp) then if you tell me I can't use a trimmer then I am not going to use a farrier but would rely on the horses self trimming and tidying myself.

The idiots who caused the pain in our case were fully qualified farriers, at least 2 fancied themselves barefoot experts but left a horse non weight bearing and bleeding.

Often when a farrier comes to the yard I have a little chat to sound them out a bit about opinions re barefoot and their approach, it's always useful to have a back up plan in case my trimmer is not available but I have yet to find one that fills me with confidence.
 
4x4 said:
Hi, I saw a reference to minerals and vitamins on another post about barefoot. I have a 6 y o who has never had shoes on and am trying to keep this so. Currently we are only hacking on a bit of tarmac and a bit of schooling on grass, only being ridden 2/3 times per week. Farrier just trims the flarey bits. Is there anything else I should be doing? He also has bad skin/sweetitch issues so does get linseed/brewers yeast and as least sugar as possible except of course it is in the grass! Anything I should ask/look for in the trim? Not sure I coudl do it myself he leans and is heavy and I have a bad back!!
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If you PM Oberon, she has a help sheet RE feeding that she could send you. :)
 
I think I've been lucky in the farriers I've had have been very happy to keep shoes off. My current farrier when meeting the horses for the first time, insisted on watching them trot up before and after trimming. When we discussed the WB's conformation, his attitude was that she was best finding her own balance and wouldn't be hacking away at her frog.

The main issue I've noticed, is that some farriers will do excellent work with some horses, but just don't click with another. Matching the professional to the individual horse can make quite a difference.

I wouldn't accept a trimmer who wasn't properly trained and at the moment the private companies offering trimming courses just aren't acceptable. Legislation has to be improved to get rid of the hobbyist weekend BF trimmers charging silly amounts of money and the owners who lame their horses.

The way forward is improve training for both farriers and trimmers.
Make it a legal requirement that all horses must be registered with a recognised hoof care professional who oversees hoof care on a regular basis, which wouldn't prevent owners trimming but would be a safe guard against the deluded 'experts' who haven't a clue.

I'd equally like owners to be beaten with a wet fish if they put shoes on an unbacked horse or a healthy, but rarely ridden horse.
Why do they do that ?
 
TwoStroke said:
After spending upwards of a month trying to get one of the decent farriers round here just to call me back, I gave it up as a bad job.
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Forgot to add, farriers won't come out to trim just one horse as it's "not worth their while". You have to wait till they are shoeing a horse on the yard at the same time.

If like me you're on a private yard with no shod horses, you could be waiting a while.
 
Make it a legal requirement that all horses must be registered with a recognised hoof care professional who oversees hoof care on a regular basis, which wouldn't prevent owners trimming but would be a safe guard against the deluded 'experts' who haven't a clue.
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Now I do use a registered hoof care professional but no, I would not want it to be a legal requirement of owning a horse to do as you suggest. What an awful idea.

You have been very lucky with your Farrier, sadly many people don't have good Farriers or good Trimmers in their area and you need to take these people into account too.
 
Faracat said:
Now I do use a registered hoof care professional but no, I would not want it to be a legal requirement of owning a horse to do as you suggest. What an awful idea.

You have been very lucky with your Farrier, sadly many people don't have good Farriers or good Trimmers in their area and you need to take these people into account too.
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Not just one farrier. Farriers, over many years and areas. Not everyone equal, but always able to have a choice of good ones.

I can imagine there are areas where farriers are few and far between but in mainland Uk, surely its not impossible ?

How do you find a good BF trimmer when there aren't that many and not all are good.

How do you protect horses from self trimming owners who haven't a clue but insist on trimming and laming ? No one has suggested a way to protect these horses. Why is protection for them an awful idea ?
 
This honestly scares the bejeezus out of me!

I've not yet met a farrier who is supportive of barefoot in my area. Last farrier started an arguement with me about it and showed how non-existant their knowledge of hooves actually was.

Looking at the shod feet that I see regularly there is no way I'd let those farriers near my horse with any sort of implement. Yet because they are registered farriers it is ok for them to butcher & deform hooves alongside laming horses.

There are now only 3 trimmers in my area; 2 I found to be highly ineffective and unable to answer any queries and one lamed my horse...twice, because I'm an idiot who gave her another chance believing what she said about it being my horse and his failings. Lesson learnt.

I'm trimming mine myself and just pulled the shoes offf mum's horse (after above farrier made a hatchet job) and have taken him barefoot. Neither horse has had a lame step with me trimming which is more than can be said after farrier/trimmer visits.

I'd happily use a trimmer that was up to the job but sadly the only one that appeared to be no longer travels. As everything is going well and I'm constantly doing all I can to increase my knowledge of all things hoof related I'd honestly be reluctant to go back to paying £40-60 for someone else to do what I'm doing already.

I may be slightly different as I've shod horses before (not a farrier but it was the done thing in the outback) and am EBW trained alongside saddle fitting so I have general awareness of a few areas (but the more I learn the more I realise how little I know and how far there is still to go!).

There is no way I'd let any local farrier back near my horses and the idea that it could be forced upon us really frightens me. I do hope that, for once, common sense will prevail.

Jessieblue - I've been (and still am!) where you are. My (now ex) vet practice told me that TB's, especially mine, can't be BF and that their frogs should be lifted off the ground (?) alongside other beauts like that. The trimmer that lamed him told me that he could only be a BF field ornament. The last farrier said I was cruel and that TBs have the feet bred out of them so need shoes.

Horses says he's never been better. Thicker, concave sole with big frogs and the underrun heel caused by farriers/shoeing has almost completely rectified. He's striding out over all surfaces (although mainly for my OCD paranoia I hack with front boots for longer rides) and is much better in himself.

It's horrible, scary and hard feeling so abandoned and alone; especially when it's drilled into us to trust in and believe the "experts". The only thing that kept me going was that, to me, I knew this BF malarky made perfect sense. Suddenly shoeing seemed a ridiculous concept.

Just read as much as you can and listen to your horse. Good luck and best wishes
 
horserider said:
I can imagine there are areas where farriers are few and far between but in mainland Uk, surely its not impossible ?

How do you find a good BF trimmer when there aren't that many and not all are good.
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Lots of farriers round here, Herts is hardly the back of beyond and they are probably fine for the straightforward simple cases, but not for the dietarily challenged, the sensitive or for horse who do better if the foot isn't trimmed to a text book shape.

How did I find a trimmer, asking for personnel recommendations from people who have barefoot horses in hard work. The UKNHCP training focus on diet puts them ahead of farriers in some ways and if you get the foundations of diet right then the trimming really is not that important but that is only a starting point. So asking questions, watching what they do, watching how the horse responds, are they better, worse, the same after a trim and not being afraid to step in and ask them to stop.

Mind I asked a farrier once not to trim so much off the frog as it would make the horse sore, he laughed at me, went ahead and lamed my the horse.

One good thing which you have said your farrier does is watching the horse move. Not round here, I've lost count of the times I dragged a horse up and down in front of a farrier who was more interested in drinking his tea and staring at the ym's cleavage that watching a horse move.

The problem then is if the horse is sore after being shod/trimmed, you have no baseline to say how it was before.

These are very highly qualified remedial farriers too, some older, some younger. There are not anti barefoot per se but as TPO says holding on to some old fashioned ideas.
 
Horserider your heart is in the right place, but the idiotic and cruel will still hurt their horses, the people you will punish with the legislation are not the people you are targeting, but the people who really are doing the best for their horses but have been let down by the traditional avenues of hoof care. TPO is the perfect example of this.

There is no way I'd let any local farrier back near my horses and the idea that it could be forced upon us really frightens me. I do hope that, for once, common sense will prevail.
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What we need is simple, general, enforceable laws EG letting an animal suffer is against the law (and actually prosecute people who break it more than currently happens), not hundreds little bitty laws that slowly gnaw away at freedom of choice. The vast majority of horse owners want the best for their horses and don't want to cause any pain and will do all in their power to prevent it.
 
I'd be the first to agree that some farriers are from the land that time forgot, but I can only speak from my experience and many times I've had a straight speaking farrier who I thought would bite my head off if I offered an opinion or question. To my relief, unfailingly, they've been so genuine in wanting to explain their thinking and pleased to talk to an owner who saw hoof care as essential and skillful.

I get a little bit cross when people say they cannot find a farrier or that a farrier made their horse bleed, etc . Why would anyone stand by and watch a procedure that was detrimental without saying anything ?

The slating of farriers as incompetent and more interested in making money at the expense of the horse isn't something I've experienced very often.

But I have seen farriers shoeing horses because owners wanted it. I've also regularly seen farriers shoeing/trimming without owners being present or having any dialogue with the farrier except to leave a cheque.

Its a two way deal. If owners want good farriery, they need to have a working relationship with the farrier, not just leave the horse in a stable and run.
 
horserider said:
.

I'd equally like owners to be beaten with a wet fish if they put shoes on an unbacked horse or a healthy, but rarely ridden horse.
Why do they do that ?
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Because everyone else on their yard does it, I think . I have several friends who shoe a horse they ride once a week and would not countenance going barefoot because it's 'not the done thing' on a lot of yards. They tell me they have to do more roadwork than I do ha ha I do more roadwork every DAY than they do in a week.
 
horserider said:
I get a little bit cross when people say they cannot find a farrier or that a farrier made their horse bleed, etc Why would anyone stand by and watch a procedure that was detrimental without saying anything ?
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In that instance I didn't see the bleeding until after the foot was put down, you would have to predict where the knife was going before it went in to actually prevent it. If it's more subtle and a case of trimming back too far, you don't see it till you walk the horse up after.
Anyway they are physically much bigger and stronger than me and so I can ask them not to do something but I cannot stop them.


All I can do is vote with my feet and my money and use someone who doesn't lame my horse and even that is tricky as you are supposed to get your current farriers permission to switch. If you ask someone to shoe or trim your horse, the first thing they will ask is who is currently doing it and have you asked them if you can move to a different farrier.

I was very naughty and didn't as I had moved yards and thought I had moved out of the catchment area but farrier A bumped into farrier B on another yard and threatened him for 'stealing' one of his clients.
It crazy round here and I wouldn't believe half of it had I not had direct experience.
 
Hi, i am a barefoot hoof trimmer only, trained for 3 years by the vet. Farriers are trained to put shoes on, barefoot trimmers should do extensive training about the whole horse, diet, movement, pathology, shape of trim,balance, physiology and anatomy and bio-mechanics. There is a lot of training behind a barefoot trim and we studied the barefoot hoof in-depth, after all horses are not born with metal on their feet and are mostly born with perfect feet. You are right when you talk about the hoof capsule. The most terrible feet i see on my travels are shod or badly trimmed, long feet, cracked, underslung, seedy toe etc. Once a horse has its shoes removed it can take a minimum of 18 months to transition, with possible abcesses along the way, that should not be hacked out. You must also take into account diet and movement. A good barefoot transition hoofboot will help for the ouchy moments, concrete is very good hooves, you need a good barefoot hoof trimmer and patience. Good luck with your journey. When i bought my horse he had back shoes on front feet, putty, splits etc, the shoes came off and bad trims led me into proper training and i ride my horse over all terrain, barefoot and have never looked back. It always still surprises me when people see my horses and say nice feet. At the end of the day the saying goes no hoof no horse anc so is true. Dont give up, stick with it and find a good baefoot hoof trimmer. Good luck with your journey, lara. I would also like to add that trim is very important. We look at each hoof individually and do not do a bog standard trim to every hoof. We take in to account how the hoof wants to be and trim each hoof accordingly, one hoof may have a flare, another a split and so on, so it would not be ok to trim each hoof the same. We only do what each hoof requires, barefoot trimming is an art and I am extremely proud of my work. I hope this has helped you.
 
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I think we need a framework for training trimmers , trimmers do not need to be farriers, farriers ought to understand the BF process some do most don't .
FRC is a organisation that works to protect farriers it is a closed shop nothing more nothing less I have no time for it what so ever , as owners we to beware of how they will attempt to drive this process .
I have learnt to rasp my own horses feet no ones going to stop me doing that ,it is better for the horses to have little and often while working BF .
We need to beware regulation that adversely effects the responsible as it trying to control the irresponsible .
And we need to guard against the FRC using this to stop the increasing interest in the BF way of keeping horses and rehabing when lame it's in it's interests to do this ,it is not in ours or our horses.
 
I wonder if a lot of owner-trimmers might fortuitously find that their horses start to self trim to a much higher degree, should the FRC start to regulate all trimming??

That said, I think my farrier does a good job with my BF horses (not that he needs to see them very often, as actually they do self trim well), though I realise good BF friendly farriers are hard to come by....
 
Kelpie said:
I wonder if a lot of owner-trimmers might fortuitously find that their horses start to self trim to a much higher degree, should the FRC start to regulate all trimming??
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This^^ Mine will certainly start doing so much 'roadwork' that trimming by a farrier is not necessary...

Anyway, while they might succeed in making it an offence for owners to trim their own horses, I sincerely doubt that they will be able to ban qualified trimmers and force people to use only farriers - there would be too many livelihoods at stake and that would certainly be a consideration when approving any legislation.
The more likely outcome is some sort of umbrella regulation that all trimmers must adhere to, so there would still be the option to use a trimmer than a farrier.
 
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I thought that this was being sorted by the reputable trimmers, the ones who have training schemes and examinations and their trimmers have insurance etc. Or has it been scuppered by the farriers council?

I think farriers who are very old (retiring) or the very young (who have heard and seen barefoot working horses) are far more receptive to the idea than the mid career farrier who qualified 20 years ago and "knows" that all working horses need shoes and you don't want some crazy horse owner who has been on a weekend course to trim a horse's foot. The same with vets to some extent. Some still don't believe it is right or possible that a horse can do hard work without shoes.
 
jessieblue said:
Hi Yas and crystal, I am in south woodham ferrers, horses live near maldon.
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you are right on my doorstep,my horse has never had shoes-my farrier is happy with that (he does not often have space for new clients though), a few on my yard use a barefoot trimmer who i am told is a qualified farrier in a previous working life-PM if you would like details
 
LittleBlackMule said:
This^^ Mine will certainly start doing so much 'roadwork' that trimming by a farrier is not necessary...

Anyway, while they might succeed in making it an offence for owners to trim their own horses, I sincerely doubt that they will be able to ban qualified trimmers and force people to use only farriers - there would be too many livelihoods at stake and that would certainly be a consideration when approving any legislation.
The more likely outcome is some sort of umbrella regulation that all trimmers must adhere to, so there would still be the option to use a trimmer than a farrier.
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They might succeed in making it an offence how they would catch us is another matter as I have no intention of stopping.
However I think in all situations you have prove widespread harm before banning something and I doubt owners trimming will reach the that bar ,if the consultation process is sensibly handled and all the aruments are well made we should be ok.
Trimmers need to get their act together with an end to squabbling between the different types of training and go into the process with a united front and a professional plan to take forward.
 
All horses are born barefoot .......... I just do not undersand why anyone who has had 5 years training does not understand the basics. i have always had good to world class farriers, there are plenty of them out there .......... [wanders off]..........
as to the FRC .......... well I gave up on them several years ago after they allowed a convicted farrier to continue to practice after a cruelty case,
http://hoofcare.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/british-farrier-banned-for-90-days-for.html
but then the RCVS did a similar thing [James Maine].................
 
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Gosh, this frightens me too.

I have a great farrier, and I am very lucky that he is happy for me to trim myself, having shown me what to do, and I keep him in the loop with photos every so often, and a visit if either of us is worried.

I trim mine every week, and I believe this is the best way. Not that I do a lot each trim, as we do regular roadwork it is just rounding off and making sure they are balanced. I would prefer to keep this going, feel that I am doing the best for my horse, and do not appreciate nanny state interfering.

I believe negligent owners will always be negligent, ignorance will always be widespread, and the people that this will affect will not be those who it is targeted at. As a generalisation, obviously ;-)
 
Too many farriers have egos the size of, well, the FRC - the one I used to use is relatively young, was apprenticed to the very best one in our area. Problem is he thinks he knows it all, has nothing to learn and that I as a mere owner had nothing of any use to contribute. I had had my horses on a good BF diet for years, so there was nothing there to explain why my horse was just barely sound most of the time.
Time after time, despite my horse having thin sensitive soles, he persisted in trimming the soles. He couldn't or wouldn't tell me why, just that that was what had to be done, and every time he trimmed, my horse went ouchy across the stones of the yard. He doesn't now - I haven't used him for many months, and did my homework. I followed what I suspected to be the case, trimmed NOTHING but the excess wall (farrier referred to that as the bearing surface :0 ) and had a good recommended trimmer (sans ego!!) check a couple of times that I was on the right lines and now said horse doesn't even feel the stones.
FRC sends out totally the wrong message "We are right and you are all wrong" and it percolates through to those who are registered under their system. I totally agree, all the trimmer "schools" need to get together and lobby for recognition based on the excellent results they have produced over many years.
 
Firstly, Christmas greetings - this is the first day off I have had in a number and while I wait for people to get organised and Christmas dinner to be cooked I decided to visit the forum and have a read, the first time I have had opportunity for many weeks.

JillA - I am sorry that the only experience you have had of farriers is egotistical. I can only counter that by saying that we are all different - personally, I always believe that there is a little you can learn every day, and at 58 I still find there are questions to be answered and there are little things that can still be learned. I do believe that there are many professional people with such attitudes though, and I am sure all of us have met with doctors, lawyers and almost certainly bankers with this attitude. Thats no excuse - but I always try to make sure that I deal with clients and their horses on as professional a basis as I can.

Having said that, it always surprises me that clients can expect the very highest of standards and provide the worst conditions imaginable, and also criticise the prices that charged to attain the results they desire. I have had people expect me to shoe horses to a high standard while standing in a field in six inches of wet gloopy mud in the pouring rain while all of the horse's field companions disappear into their stables - and then gawp at a sixty pound charge for the privilege. I have also had people bring me horses with feet covered in sticky gloopy mud to the point where you cant even see the legs and the feet, let alone the clenches. Maybe they would go to the dentist with a mouthful of toffee, but somehow I doubt it. Many people here have complained that they cant get hold of a farrier or that he does not turn up - but this year many times I have turned up for regular appointments to find that the people simply have not bothered to remember, or worse still they have had it shod by another cheaper farrier and not even bothered to call me and let me know, or that they have simply moved to another yard and not bothered to tell me.
This despite the fact (or maybe even because of it) that I guarantee soundness and all shoes are guaranteed against loss free of charge for 6 weeks, and my appointment times are guaranteed within 1 hour either way or call me.
It works both ways - but with the very important difference that this is my livelihood and that of my family.

As far as barefoot is concerned, I have maybe 60% of all the horses on the round barefoot, with maybe another 15% shod only in front, and the remainder with full sets. I will only shoe if I feel it is necessary, but you cannot be right all of the time, and especially if the owner does not tell you how much the horse is going to work (if they are not there and relying on y/o to get the horse out and tie it up, or similar.
I would concur that trimming is quite different in my mind if I am to shoe, than if for barefoot - having said that, it always amazes me that people do not understand that the horse's environment matters equally as much, and can really affect the ability of the of the foot to do its job properly. I am always quite staggered by the amount of people who have their horse's shoes removed in winter 'because the ground is soft', without realising that the very moisture that causes the ground to be soft is absorbed into the horn making that soft too, and rendering it substantially less able to protect the structures within from concussion and bruising. I find myself endlessly explaining that horses, whose feet bear a much greater weight compared to their surface area, sink in to soft ground - the only things that are capable of supporting this great weight under the ground, are the rocks inside, which the horses will strike hard with their soft feet, and it doesnt take a lot of imagination to derive the result. Also, mud is terribly abrasive and full of bacteria, it will wear away at the soft horn with ease as the horses walk through it.
As a result of much of this, I actually find that it is better for some horses if they are shod in winter and barefoot in summer. But that for me is just experience, and of course only applies to certain horses.

As far as the thread topic is concerned, I do think that it is probably a good idea that the regulation is standardised, but I really hear the concerns of those people that say that it is in the interests of the regulators themselves and not so much the horses. I also am a farrier who keeps an eye on some horses who's owners will self trim, and I will always give them a guide as to what to look for if things are going awry, and to call me if they are concerned. I actually find that this approach helps my work, but I could see that it might cause a problem with a horse who was particularly prone to infection or of poor quality and require extra care. Personally I believe that if the new regulations were to be adopted, I dont see any reason why owners who wish to self trim could not qualify to do so, I think that maybe this could go some way to satisfying most people (and more importantly, most horses). But one word of warning - I am old enough to remember the days before the registration act. When farriers were first registered, we were told, 'well, its only £20, thats one set a year.' We now pay well over 2 sets, and I can see it going considerably higher quite soon. So if you become registered as a self trimmer, the likelihood is, you would be required to pay a fee. Consider the reason why you self trim. If it is because you think you are doing a good job and your horse is comfortable because of it, then I would urge you to get qualified. If you are just doing it to cut costs, then you may not have your horse's best interests at heart. Anyone with that attitude, I think, should not be allowed to do so.

Merry Christmas!
 
I'm lucky in the fact that my farrier has no problem with me wanting to keep mine barefoot including my Tb.
He always says its not the breed but the horse that dictates if they can go bf in full work (with out boots)
My retired warmblood only gets a trim once a year but he checks her every other shoeing session just in case but always says she is doing a.good job her self.

There is a trimmer who goes to a friends yard who is always slating carriers and owners who shoe....to the point she has been asked to keep her opinions to herself or be banned from the yard.
 
Thank you Graeme Burt for your well reasoned post - I wish there were more like you. I do understand to a point why there can be antipathy amongst registered farriers to the trimming fraternity, and it is thanks largely to the Strasser butchers - my former farrier was involved in reconstructing many feet that had suffered at the hands of them.
It is the same old same old - there are good and bad in both camps, but sadly if you happen to be using one of the "bad" it can take a large part of a horse's working life to recover from the damage done, and the memory of pain and discomfort is pretty much always there.
 
I do wonder why FRC are looking to stop owners trimming their horses (currently legal) when there are numerous peoe shoeing their own horses (illegal).

Surely if it was solely about animal welfare they would tackle the illegal activities first? Given they can't even manage that why are they looking to make more things illegal and how do they expect to police that?

Every owner should have to learn about anatomy, function and hoof care. Then, and only then, will the bad farriers have to stop trading and people will start making informed decisions. Education is key.

Excellent post GB
 
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