LittleCob
Member
Gastro plus sounds pretty amazing for a supplement...
Ulcer questions and what next...
- Thread starter LittleCob
- Start date
fuzzle
Well-Known Member
All i can tell you is what worked for my horse, when all else tried and failed .if it wasnt for gastro plus she wouldnt be with us now!! all im saying if the gastroguard doesnt work there is an alternative!! wish you all the best xx
philamena
Well-Known Member
I was told to starve for 12 hours, and take water away in the morning before we set off. The biggest risk is them finding something to eat in the morning either in the lorry or in a stable at the vets', so be uber paranoid!
LittleCob
Member
I've doubled checked the trailer for stray hay, and I'm going to pop a muzzle on f
LittleCob
Member
Oops... I'm going to pop a muzzle on for the 30 sec walk from stable to trailer via a nice juicy grass verge
philamena
Well-Known Member
Good thinking Let us know how you get on!
Let us know how you get on!LittleCob
Member
Scope was done today and they found some low grade ulceration in the glandular region of the stomach and some inflammation. Nothing drastic but still something. I'm quite relieved that there was something and I'm hoping this is what's causing the girthyness. There was some scar tissue on the non-glandular part that may have been caused by old ulcers.
Gastrogard apparently doesn't work well on glandular ulcers so we have a months worth of Antepsin (the enclosed leaflet states he shouldn't drive or operate heavy machinery so I'll need to keep an eye on him! ), which I think puts a protective layer over the ulcers to help them heal. I'll look at changing his diet where necessary and will try to introduce alfalfa. He currently just gets hay and a handful of soaked fibre nuts as a token feed when the others get breakfast/dinner. Occasionally I will mix some haylage into his net but I'll just cut that right out. The only management change he's had is going from 24/7 turnout to being stabled at night in winter - I do let him stand with no hay for a few hours when he comes in from the field; I'll need to rethink that.
Just did a quick google search for antepsin and found a thread saying to give it 30 minutes before a feed - anyone have any experience of this? My vet told me to crush it into his feed? I want to give it the best chance of working.
Will low grade ulcers always get worse if not treated or could a horse have low grade ulcers for years without any progression? I'm just wondering how long he's had them (i.e. does low grade mean they are relatively new, if that makes sense?).
Thank you all so much for the information and well wishes; they were very much appreciated!
Gastrogard apparently doesn't work well on glandular ulcers so we have a months worth of Antepsin (the enclosed leaflet states he shouldn't drive or operate heavy machinery so I'll need to keep an eye on him!
), which I think puts a protective layer over the ulcers to help them heal. I'll look at changing his diet where necessary and will try to introduce alfalfa. He currently just gets hay and a handful of soaked fibre nuts as a token feed when the others get breakfast/dinner. Occasionally I will mix some haylage into his net but I'll just cut that right out. The only management change he's had is going from 24/7 turnout to being stabled at night in winter - I do let him stand with no hay for a few hours when he comes in from the field; I'll need to rethink that. Just did a quick google search for antepsin and found a thread saying to give it 30 minutes before a feed - anyone have any experience of this? My vet told me to crush it into his feed? I want to give it the best chance of working.
Will low grade ulcers always get worse if not treated or could a horse have low grade ulcers for years without any progression? I'm just wondering how long he's had them (i.e. does low grade mean they are relatively new, if that makes sense?).
Thank you all so much for the information and well wishes; they were very much appreciated!
philamena
Well-Known Member
Hi
Thanks for the update It's interesting to watch, isn't it?
Bearing in mind stomach acid would burn your hand if you touched it, I don't think it needs to look very dramatic to be painful so it'll certainly be interesting to see if you get an improvement in symptoms.
Your vet's theory on gastrogard for the glandular part of the stomach is an interesting one. Gastrogard inhibits the production of stomach acid, so it reduces the amount sloshing around in there. There is a logic that because the acid fills the stomach from the bottom upwards, ulcers at the very bottom of the glandular part of the stomach are unlikely to 'escape' acid as it doesn't switch it off completely, but it is still prescribed more often that not, so it'll be interesting to see what results you get just using Antepsin. You can see how GG is good at reducing the contact that the higher up parts of the stomach have with acid but I've often wondered about the very bottom of the stomach. You're right that Antepsin works like a sort of bandage over the ulcers, protecting them from the acid and hopefully allowing them to heal. It's typically prescribed alongside GG.
I do have to say though that I think your vet's wrong to say you should crush the antepsin into his feed. I'd go with the info you found online - every vet I've ever had Antepsin off has agreed you should feed it 20-30 mins before food. The easiest way is to put the tablets into a large syringe, dribble a tiny bit of water onto the tablets and give them a good shake - they dissolve super quickly with very little water, so be conservative! When my mare was on GG and Antepsin, we were having to try to get the GG in on an empty stomach, then the Antepsin in on as empty a stomach as possible too, with 20 mins in between. For ease one time around I would wet the Antepsin and mix it into a tiny (teeny!) amount of chaff and lob it in. It's pretty tasteless and doing it this way meant the yard staff could do it at bring in and late check. It still worked OK so I think it's about as close to an empty stomach as possible rather than starvation empty!
You're not far off diet wise if you just keep it fibre, fibre, fibre and get off haylage if you can. It's worth trying to see if it makes a difference, some find it does, some find it doesn't. Mine's never without hay (apart from perhaps an hour between finishing her bring in hay and her late check hay if she's really pigged out). She always has a haynet when we're grooming and tacking up, and if we're going faster than a walk she'll have a bit of molasses free alfa a just before her bridle goes on too. I also always try to get a handful or two of molasses free alfa a in before we go off in the lorry and when we arrive. She loves having a medical reason to be constantly pigging
It's my understanding that ulcers can flare up and reduce, low grade would tend to become worse over time for example. Will be interested to know how you get on - how long will he be on Antepsin for?
Thanks for the update
It's interesting to watch, isn't it? Bearing in mind stomach acid would burn your hand if you touched it, I don't think it needs to look very dramatic to be painful so it'll certainly be interesting to see if you get an improvement in symptoms.
Your vet's theory on gastrogard for the glandular part of the stomach is an interesting one. Gastrogard inhibits the production of stomach acid, so it reduces the amount sloshing around in there. There is a logic that because the acid fills the stomach from the bottom upwards, ulcers at the very bottom of the glandular part of the stomach are unlikely to 'escape' acid as it doesn't switch it off completely, but it is still prescribed more often that not, so it'll be interesting to see what results you get just using Antepsin. You can see how GG is good at reducing the contact that the higher up parts of the stomach have with acid but I've often wondered about the very bottom of the stomach. You're right that Antepsin works like a sort of bandage over the ulcers, protecting them from the acid and hopefully allowing them to heal. It's typically prescribed alongside GG.
I do have to say though that I think your vet's wrong to say you should crush the antepsin into his feed. I'd go with the info you found online - every vet I've ever had Antepsin off has agreed you should feed it 20-30 mins before food. The easiest way is to put the tablets into a large syringe, dribble a tiny bit of water onto the tablets and give them a good shake - they dissolve super quickly with very little water, so be conservative! When my mare was on GG and Antepsin, we were having to try to get the GG in on an empty stomach, then the Antepsin in on as empty a stomach as possible too, with 20 mins in between. For ease one time around I would wet the Antepsin and mix it into a tiny (teeny!) amount of chaff and lob it in. It's pretty tasteless and doing it this way meant the yard staff could do it at bring in and late check. It still worked OK so I think it's about as close to an empty stomach as possible rather than starvation empty!
You're not far off diet wise if you just keep it fibre, fibre, fibre and get off haylage if you can. It's worth trying to see if it makes a difference, some find it does, some find it doesn't. Mine's never without hay (apart from perhaps an hour between finishing her bring in hay and her late check hay if she's really pigged out). She always has a haynet when we're grooming and tacking up, and if we're going faster than a walk she'll have a bit of molasses free alfa a just before her bridle goes on too. I also always try to get a handful or two of molasses free alfa a in before we go off in the lorry and when we arrive. She loves having a medical reason to be constantly pigging
It's my understanding that ulcers can flare up and reduce, low grade would tend to become worse over time for example. Will be interested to know how you get on - how long will he be on Antepsin for?
LittleCob
Member
It was quite fascinating. I was amazed just how much acid was in there!
He'll be on antepsin for 3 weeks. Had a quick google of glandular ulcers and saw a few articles recommending antepsin rather than GG (for the reasons you said) so hopefully it'll be enough. I'll let u know. If not, there are some other options apparently but we didn't go into detail - I think he was going to suggest some of the supplements.
I think I'll do the syringing, it can only do good and I can fit that into our routine quite easily.
I've got a couple of trickle nets I can use to slow him down a bit (hay is already soaked) but keep him grazing for longer. He's a bit porky at the moment due to lack of exercise :/
He'll be on antepsin for 3 weeks. Had a quick google of glandular ulcers and saw a few articles recommending antepsin rather than GG (for the reasons you said) so hopefully it'll be enough. I'll let u know. If not, there are some other options apparently but we didn't go into detail - I think he was going to suggest some of the supplements.
I think I'll do the syringing, it can only do good and I can fit that into our routine quite easily.
I've got a couple of trickle nets I can use to slow him down a bit (hay is already soaked) but keep him grazing for longer. He's a bit porky at the moment due to lack of exercise :/
JCWHITE
Well-Known Member
Maybe this Anticepsin is available as a liquid rather than tablets to crush, makes the syringing so much easier.
philamena
Well-Known Member
It is, but honestly it's really easy just to dribble water on them and then they just puff up. Then you can make it a paste which the horse can't spit out, unlike the liquid
catembi
Well-Known Member
Our antepsin was a white liquid in a bottle. The vets said to give it before feed on an empty stomach... but bearing in mind that ulcery horses aren't s'posed to have empty stomachs, ever...! So I just did it twice a day before feeding.
V interesting re acid, P. So maybe that's why GG didn't work at all on mine... cos they're at the lowest part...
T x
V interesting re acid, P. So maybe that's why GG didn't work at all on mine... cos they're at the lowest part...
T x