Ulcer scoping & symptoms

[NeoRider]

Hi

Our 4yo geldings behaviour has worsened and he is extremely moody. after a lengthy chat with the vet they think the best idea is to scope for ulcers to rule it out.

can I ask anyone that has had confirmed ulcers in their horse, did it ever affect them picking up front legs/feet to be picked out?

also what other symptoms did your horse show?

Many thanks

 

[Melody Grey]

Hi

Our 4yo geldings behaviour has worsened and he is extremely moody. after a lengthy chat with the vet they think the best idea is to scope for ulcers to rule it out.

can I ask anyone that has had confirmed ulcers in their horse, did it ever affect them picking up front legs/feet to be picked out?

also what other symptoms did your horse show?

Many thanks

Yes, can cause general stiffness through the back and basically everything related. General symptoms: grumpiness, looking ‘shut down’, chewing wood, windsucking, girthiness when being saddled, irritability with grooming/ rugging, explosive episodes under saddle, stiffness, inability to bring the right hind under (leading to striking off difficulties, usually with the right canter), bucking under saddle, reluctance to go forward, anxiety, spookiness.....to name but a few!!

Think about a lameness work up to include back x-rays- reluctance to lift front feet was the first sign of kissing spines in my last horse.

 

[NeoRider]

Yes, can cause general stiffness through the back and basically everything related. General symptoms: grumpiness, looking ‘shut down’, chewing wood, windsucking, girthiness when being saddled, irritability with grooming/ rugging, explosive episodes under saddle, stiffness, inability to bring the right hind under (leading to striking off difficulties, usually with the right canter), bucking under saddle, reluctance to go forward, anxiety, spookiness.....to name but a few!!

Think about a lameness work up to include back x-rays- reluctance to lift front feet was the first sign of kissing spines in my last horse.

Oh wow I never even thought about kissing spine. Did you have any other symptoms? We have the vet coming out next week to do a general health check so i can hopefully discuss some of my concerns.

 

[Melody Grey]

Oh wow I never even thought about kissing spine. Did you have any other symptoms? We have the vet coming out next week to do a general health check so i can hopefully discuss some of my concerns.

It was ridden symptoms with my mare (really uncharacteristic refusal to work, volatile behaviour) that led to the lameness workup though she was funny with her feet from the outset and I’d put it down to me being a new home for her (straight out of racing). In hindsight, I think it was all part of it......but could of course be entirely unrelated.

 

[Velcrobum]

My oldies Grade 4 ulcers presented as an impaction colic and were caused by a yard move. He was settled where he was but the yard closed and the stress of the move caused them. It was somewhat of a surprise finding as he was going to be ultra sounded as well with the expectation of an abdominal tumor being found.

 

[catembi]

I did the whole ulcers/KS thing with Trev my ex racer. He was just slooooow & reluctant to work, so got him scoped - bad ulcers. Treated with omeprazole & sulfacrate - no different. Vets didn't believe me - rescoped - no difference. Got his back x-rayed - KS. Had surgery for the KS & the ulcer symptoms disappeared. He was no more inclined to work (this was 2015) and I have since discovered that his sire, Soviet Star, is related to Northern Dancer & that that whole line tends to have the px variant of PSSM. I am going to test for that as I have had 4 x PSSMs on the trot & I am curious. He is 18, I have owned since 5 & he has never been 'right'.

Anyway, the ulcer symptoms - very bad tempered in general, I was actually afraid to change his rugs as he'd bite & kick (usually he was very gentle), very desperate for food - had a really haunted expression just before meal times (lived out 24/7 with constant hay) & my friend who had ulcers herself said that the only thing that stopped them hurting was eating. He also didn't shed his coat & had some winter coat left on his back in July/August.

If you go on YouTube, there is a video of an American vet demonstrating the pressure points for ulcers. He shows an ulcer free horse, one with moderate ulcers & one with bad ulcers. It's not very long and it's really worth a watch. I will see if I can find it.

 

[lynz88]

catembi - great video.

OP - I am still on the journey with mine. Wonder if any of the following sounds familiar?

- Monster to brush, particularly the right side but also snappy on the left
- Won't let me pick up the RF every so often and snaps at me when I brush his front legs (both)
- Generally "flat" / "sticky" and/or general reluctance to move forward (but will, especially if working from the ground. Won't under saddle)

I'm still on my journey. It's a long, long story but mine came off box rest in Nov, was an idiot in the field, and been a grump ever since. Chiro found all sorts of issues in Dec and has seen him several times since and can't find anything more. Stuck him on Protexin and after 2 months his grumpiness got better; went off and became a monster. Put him back on at double scoop and has gotten better (though his sarcoids have starting growing at an alarming rate). Thought it was all sorted and he was just being "lazy" after about 7 months of no/inconsistent work until last week when I went down before he went out. Sir Grumps A Lot was back until I made him move around and then was happier to be groomed. Doesn't like to be groomed in the girth area but thanks to a lot of chiro work, fairly ok to tack up (go figure).

KS is something that has crossed my mind but he's had periods that he's been fab. Am doing a bute trial this week so see what happens. Not sure if any of that sounds familiar or not....

 

[SEL]

I described how my Appy was with ulcers on facebook the other week and got a 4 day ban for inciting violence!!!

She would bite and kick without warning. Picking any feet up was only ever done with a hard hat on and that's if she'd let you near them. I gave up grooming because it wasn't fun. Saddling was interesting. I used to attach a lead rope to the far side of the girth then kick the lead rope under her belly so I didn't have to lean under her to grab a girth. This was over a couple of weeks and got progressively worse. Fortunately I was holding her head when the vet checked her over because the vet dodged the kick but would have caught the bite if my well padded arm hadn't been in the way.

She was a fat 5 yo at the time and I now know her default if her gut is hurting is to eat and eat and eat - I guess to try and sooth it.

The meds weren't hugely successful and we couldn't work out why. I then came across an article on PSSM and it was a lightbulb moment. She was diagnosed with type 1 and managing the muscles has helped hugely with managing her gut.

ETA - the specialist who did the scope said to me at the time he had a feeling there was something else going on with her rather than ulcers as the primary cause. PSSM has got more well known in recent years but 8 years ago it wasn't looked for even in high risk horses.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Mine had grade 4 ulcers, looked the picture of health ,beautiful coat shine and perfect weight.
Vet took one look at her and said they doubt she has ulcers, i insisted i wanted her scoped due to dangerous ridden behaviour out of nowhere - bucking/vertical rearing with ears pinned back, she also used to paw at the ground when asked to move forwards.
Treated ulcers 3 times and they returned each time within weeks of finishing treatment, sent in for lameness workup and found 1/10 lame right hind in trot. X rayed and found mild arthritis of the hocks. Steroid injections into the hocks and ulcers have never returned.
Multiple 5k claims maxed out to sort it!
Ulcers can be easy to treat, finding out why the horse has the ulcers in the first place is the hard part. If i ever get another horse with ulcers i will be requesting back x rays and full lameness work up aswell.

this was a few years ago now, mare is currently in full work and loving life although weve had a few other issues along the way, luckily ulcers never reappeared though ? good luck!