Ulcer treatment - Slippery Elm?

[micramadam]

My mare was diagnosed yesteday with ulcers after suffering off and on the last 2 weeks with colic.
I have been trawling the internet reading up on these and the possible treatments including natural herb products.
Haven't discussed with the Equine Clinic vet yet what he is treating her with, will see him and her tomorrow and find out then.
I'm also not a fan of pumping my horses full of unnatural man made drugs unless absolutely necessary and always search for the natural remedies.
I keep coming across articles about Slippery Elm Bark Powder & Chamomile Tea which have piqued my curiosity.
Has anyone any experience using these to treat/ prevent ulcers in horses?
Very very interested to hear about how these work/worked.

 

[barehoofhannah]

Dena Schwarz looks at natures remedies, from what I gather it's best if the horse self medicates. I think her website is Aninal aromotherepy she was at your horse live and had a stand at the Horsemanship magazine tent with lots of natural herbs and things that horses could self select. She does one day courses, I'm doing one in a few weeks time so i know a bit more about this sort of thing, particularly for anxious horses.

Accupressure points? Did a Dr Kerry Ridgway clinic last year hearing and seeing the benefits of accupressure for ulcers, if you pm me your contact details I can send over any info from this and will search Natural Horse mag as USA mag that does a section most additions on accupressure to see if they have done a piece on this.

Holistic/alternative vet?

Best wishes
Hannah

 

[jenz87]

My horse too has just been diagnosed with ulcers, the vet has put her on a months treatment of Gastrogard, which is basically what they give humans for ulcers, but at a million times the price.

I have heard good things of NAF's Gastrivet, which apparently you can give for a few months to help heal, and then Gastriaid afterwards. These are herbal and i love Naf's other products.

 

[Oberon]

My mare was diagnosed yesteday with ulcers after suffering off and on the last 2 weeks with colic.
I have been trawling the internet reading up on these and the possible treatments including natural herb products.
Haven't discussed with the Equine Clinic vet yet what he is treating her with, will see him and her tomorrow and find out then.
I'm also not a fan of pumping my horses full of unnatural man made drugs unless absolutely necessary and always search for the natural remedies.
I keep coming across articles about Slippery Elm Bark Powder & Chamomile Tea which have piqued my curiosity.
Has anyone any experience using these to treat/ prevent ulcers in horses?
Very very interested to hear about how these work/worked.

From reading Dr Kerry Ridgway's comments on his research on ulcers, herbal remedies are helpful in preventing ulcers - but once the horse has ulcers your best option is GastroGuard.

However, recently he has been getting good results from using this stuff;
http://www.egusin.net/

He (and many others) post on this Yahoo group;
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/wholehorsehealth/

 

[Ali2]

If you want rid of them go with GG then consider management options

 

[maggiesmum]

Whilst there are lots of products out there which will ease or prevent the symptoms of ulcers gastrogard is the only actual treatment (ranitidine and cimetidine also work but need administering more often). I'm not a fan of chemicals either and avoid them like the plague but I do believe they're necessary for ulcers.
Nothing actually treats the ulcer, GG stops acid production which gives the ulcer an environment within which it can heal.
My tb has suspected colonic ulcers which didn't respond to GG but we're getting better results with cimitidine and antepsin (sucralfate) which coats the surface of the ulcer.
Management is a big part of the treatment, lots of turnout, cut out all cereals and feed ad-lib hay (I've found soaked hay rather than Haylage is helping too), my boys his own worse enemy as he's a stress head which doesn't help at all. I'd definitely recommend going with the vets advice on this one - and I don't say that often lol

 

[coss]

i read up on slippery elm a couple of weeks ago as someone i know in america recommended it as they use it over there for trotter racers.
From what i read, slippery elm coats the lining of the stomach thus reducing the amount of acid in the stomach - read from that what you will but my take would be that that is what the GG is doing. does GG have slippery elm in it (under a different name?!)

 

[Oberon]

i read up on slippery elm a couple of weeks ago as someone i know in america recommended it as they use it over there for trotter racers.
From what i read, slippery elm coats the lining of the stomach thus reducing the amount of acid in the stomach - read from that what you will but my take would be that that is what the GG is doing. does GG have slippery elm in it (under a different name?!)

GG is Omeprazole.

 

[coss]

GG is Omeprazole.

ahh - i know that medicine so to my original thoughts - does slippery elm do the same thing as i'm sure i read it was basically gastro resistent ...

 

[Ali2]

No! GG shuts off acid production.

 

[applecart14]

My mare was diagnosed yesteday with ulcers after suffering off and on the last 2 weeks with colic.
I have been trawling the internet reading up on these and the possible treatments including natural herb products.
Haven't discussed with the Equine Clinic vet yet what he is treating her with, will see him and her tomorrow and find out then.
I'm also not a fan of pumping my horses full of unnatural man made drugs unless absolutely necessary and always search for the natural remedies.
I keep coming across articles about Slippery Elm Bark Powder & Chamomile Tea which have piqued my curiosity.
Has anyone any experience using these to treat/ prevent ulcers in horses?
Very very interested to hear about how these work/worked.

The vet thought my horse might have ulcers so I decided to treat with the natural approach mainly due to the prohibitive cost of scoping/gastroguard. I bought meadowsweet herb, and slippery elm powder. I also put him on haylage balancer by NAF so i could still feed him haylage although this was decreased due to the acid content of haylage , cut out his mix and gave him Alfa A.

I give him a rounded teaspoon of slippery elm once a day and he has responded well to this. He is not so keen on the meadowsweet and it is quite a pungent herb and he is a very fussy eater. His attitude towards me is better, he is not so grumpy to groom as he was, and is willing and happy in his work (or appears to be anyway).

I use Geordie256 (The Alchemists Apothecary) on Ebay.co.uk to get mine - it was £12.50 for 200grams including post and packing. (I bought 2 x 100mg as my friend wanted to try a bag). It is a very pure and very clean herb. 100grams would last you about 35 days.

 

[Oberon]

ahh - i know that medicine so to my original thoughts - does slippery elm do the same thing as i'm sure i read it was basically gastro resistent ...

Omeprazole is a protein pump inhibitor. It suppresses acid production (bear in mind that horses produce acid constantly - not like us who only produce it when we need to) and gives the stomach time to heal the wound without acid splashing across it.

 

[rockysmum]

I have been reading a lot about ulcers recently. I have wondered whether to get stressy wamblood scoped but it would be a nightmare to sedate her.

I have a few questions which I would be interested in anyones thoughts.

Ulcers are caused by excess acid, I know stress causes this, but do manage issues also contribute.

For example is hay better than haylage, does soaking hay make it more acid. Which feeds are good and bad, do we even know the Ph value of what we buy, I dont. Does adding an something like limestone flour balance the Ph. I know from personal experience that some foods cause heartburn, which is also excess acid. For me peppers are a killer, do some feeds do the same to horses.

Also what about grazing, when I was young, many many years ago, farmers spread ag lime on a regular basis to make the soil and grass less acid. It doesn't happen as much now, probably due to the loss of subsidies. So would hay be better from some pastures (limestone for example) than others. Also I dont know many yards which test the soil, so would assume many yards have very acidic grass.

Any thoughts as I dont remember this being such a big problem years ago, but maybe the tests were not available.

 

[Oberon]

I have been reading a lot about ulcers recently. I have wondered whether to get stressy wamblood scoped but it would be a nightmare to sedate her.

I have a few questions which I would be interested in anyones thoughts.

Ulcers are caused by excess acid, I know stress causes this, but do manage issues also contribute.

For example is hay better than haylage, does soaking hay make it more acid. Which feeds are good and bad, do we even know the Ph value of what we buy, I dont. Does adding an something like limestone flour balance the Ph. I know from personal experience that some foods cause heartburn, which is also excess acid. For me peppers are a killer, do some feeds do the same to horses.

Also what about grazing, when I was young, many many years ago, farmers spread ag lime on a regular basis to make the soil and grass less acid. It doesn't happen as much now, probably due to the loss of subsidies. So would hay be better from some pastures (limestone for example) than others. Also I dont know many yards which test the soil, so would assume many yards have very acidic grass.

Any thoughts as I dont remember this being such a big problem years ago, but maybe the tests were not available.

Ulcers will have always been around - we just didn't know about them. Horses were just considered badly behaved or grumpy. To be fair - my Arab would fit the bill of being afflicted....if he hadn't been consistently ill mannered for his entire life

Hay versus haylage - haylage is considered more acidic, so for an ulcerated horse, hay is the better choice. I'm not sure if soaking hay does anything other than reduce the sugar content?

Horses were designed to eat forage on a continual basis (18 - 21 hours a day). Hence they produce acid on a continual basis. If a horse is stabled at 5pm and finishes his haynet at 7pm (I often got to the yard after work, and they have usually all finished eating by 7pm)...then he's without food for at least 10 hours.
Meanwhile the acid (horses produce around a litre an hour) builds up and spills over from the mucous protected lower portion of the stomach to the unprotected upper portion (with tissue just like our own skin). Thus the ulcer is formed.

When a horse is very active (galloping, jumping etc.) the abdominal contents will push against the stomach, compressing and trapping it against the diaphragm. This will cause the acid to splash up and reach the upper, unprotected part of the stomach and create ulcers.

Stress can also kick off ulcers (high numbers found with broodmares).

Feed wise - fermenting forage in the hind gut produces a more alkaline gut.
Grains produce a more acidic gut.

The mixture of grain and haylage (like the average horse) produces a more acidic gut.

Hind gut ulcers tend to be more chronic in nature and more difficult to get rid of.

From the reading I've been doing on body pain from ulcers, I've learnt that due to the consistent muscle pain patterns found in ulcer cases, they also may refuse to pick up the correct lead in canter.
They often they do not engage the hindquarters correctly – commonly in the right hind as most horses are ‘right handed’ and place more strain in that limb.

They are often restricted in the shoulders due to tightening of the facia over the muscles over the shoulder and wither pocket area. This contracture limits the ability of the muscles to lengthen and shorten appropriately.

There are also consistent chiropractic findings along the entire chest, vertebral, lumbar, sacro-iliac areas resulting in pain and an inability to use the back correctly.

One very important muscle that is frequently dysfunctional in ulcer cases is the Psoas muscle – a group of three muscles that form the largest and strongest muscles in the horse’s body. Its function is to stabilise and protect the pelvis from damage. This is what prevents a racehorse from fracturing its pelvis when it bolts from the starting gate. When the psoas muscle is in pain, the pelvis and croup muscles cannot function well and will go into spasm.

So it's not just about the gut

 

[micramadam]

This info is great, keep it coming.
Ruby is on Gastroguard for the next 4 weeks and the clinic said just try and make sure she always has something to nibble on and to make sure that she has food on her stomach before we ride.

With regards to management I've been trying to ensure that all my horses have something to nibble on all day. I even bought the trickle nets to try and make sure that she (they) had hay all day and night. They have worked but some mornings I have found that they are still empty despite being stuffed to capacity. They got the hang of them really quick! Will now hang 2 of these in the stable at all times.

When the weather allows and the fields aren't too wet (Holland = flat = too much bloody water!) they were out in the fields as much as possible.
She has a outside stable and the stable block looks out onto a road, pavement and cycle/bridle path so there is plenty for her to see. All the nets are hung so that the horses can see out of the stables and eat at the same time.

We changed her to hay from haylage over a year again.
She is not a stress head.
My daughter and Ruby had a nasty fall on concrete back in October which resulted in her (Ruby) being lame for a few weeks. We mentioned this to the vet and he said that the stress of this could have resulted in the ulcers as the colic episodes started about 6 weeks after this.

I've been racking my brains as to what else could cause these and at the minute I can't think of anything.

What little hard feed she had was mixed with water and a little bit of sunflower oil. I will stop feeding a muesli mix (Havens Natural Balance) that she has been getting. To be quite honest I was thinking of stopping this anyway.

Will have a good chat with the vet again on Tuesday when I go to collect her from the clinic but am still contemplating the slippery elm bark powder.

 

[Ali2]

Mine's on one trickle net and one haylage net when stabled to try and make sure he's always got forage there. For him this is working, there's always a bit left in the morning that he's still able to nibble on. I also slowly introduced barley straw in to his diet and he has this ad lib in the stable - he does pick at it, but doesn't eat huge amounts - this may be worth considering for you too?

Bucket wise he has fast fibre, bran, linseed, pectin, lecithin and minerals. I bulk his bucket fed out with a plain hay/straw chaff to slow him down, get him to chew more and in turn produce more saliva that helps with acid neutralisation.

The initial GG treatment seems to have fixed the ulcers (we assessed on behaviour change, didn't rescope) and the management tweaks (we were already about 90 % there!) seem to be keeping him in an ulcer-free state.

 

[applecart14]

Any thoughts as I dont remember this being such a big problem years ago, but maybe the tests were not available.

Its like anything though, years ago a vast majority of us had never heard of Kissing Spine or Moon Blindness or EMS. Then came more information about EIA, EVA, EHV and any other diseases beginning with the initial E! Every year there seems to be a sudden influx of horses having something or other but its because suddenly horse owners become aware of these conditions through research, and through friends having horses with these conditions, or reading about them in horse publications and the like.

In 2010 it was EPM that hit the headlines, the year before that it was Kissing Spine. Now it appears its all to do with EMS.

Stuff like fistolous withers, poll evil, transit tetany, purpura heamorrahagica, angelberries and bracken posioning was what horse owners were worried about in the 60's and 70's.

 

[rockysmum]

Stuff like fistolous withers, poll evil, transit tetany, purpura heamorrahagica, angelberries and bracken posioning was what horse owners were worried about in the 60's and 70's.

I had horses in the 60 & 70's dont remember all of those. My friends horse did die from purpura heamorrahagica though, if that is the strangles complication, I never could spell it.

 

[applecart14]

I had horses in the 60 & 70's dont remember all of those. My friends horse did die from purpura heamorrahagica though, if that is the strangles complication, I never could spell it.

Yes it is, its a strep infection and is in my old veterinary manual by Eddie Straiton the old TV vet of the 60's. Its amazing the stuff that's in there, and really interesting too. A lot of illnesses are straightforward and easily treated these days, but in those days they rang the death knoll for the horses affected. Transit tetany is something to do with cramping of the muscles of the legs due to low levels of magnesium (presume was more common in animals transported), angelberries are big sarcoids (my horse had one of these) and poll evil and fistolous withers are deep routed bursas that become infected (I think) that come out at the withers or poll. Gross.

 

[Fruitcake]

I'm thinking of using Slippery Elm too. (My horse was diagnosed with ulcers in Nov. Had a course of GG, rescoped halfway through and ulcers had gone. Rescoped three weeks later and they'd returned so back on another course of GG). His management has always been 'low ulcer risk'. (Usually lives out 24/7- although has been in overnight this winter since I brought him in in Nov when he started to show ulcer symptoms- He's a good doer so has only hay- from a trickle net- and a lo-cal balancer). I want to start him on some sort of preventative supplement when the GG is finished this time and have been hearing good things about Slippery Elm. I also like the sound of Equine America's 'Ulser Guard' or Naf 'Gastri-vet'. Does anyone know if you can give Slippery Elm alongside these? (Thinking of hedging my bets and going for both!)

 

[fudge750]

cant really see a problem using them both. Ulser guard and naf gastri aid are both antacid type supplements to neutralise the acid in stomach. Slippery elm works by providing a protective mucous coating on the stomach lining to siithe it and allow it to heal. Gastri vet however is herb based and im sure contains marshmallow which works in same way as slippery elm so don't think it would be cost effective to use it alongside slippery elm.

 

[micramadam]

Ruby came home today with a course of Gastroguard. She has to go back in 4 weeks time to be re-scoped to see if the ulcers have gone. They did tell me they were particluarly nasty ulcers. Poor Ruby.

Spoke to the vet about using the slippery elm which I am going to mix with a tea made from chamomile flowers and both mixed with her food. As its all entirely natural they don't see any problems but of course they were pushing me to use the stuff they stock!
Think the slippery elm and chamomile will be much cheaper! Insurance will only pay for so much. Anyway its ordered and on its way so we'll see over the next few months if this helps. Fingers, toes and everything else crossed.

 

[p01j01]

ahh - i know that medicine so to my original thoughts - does slippery elm do the same thing as i'm sure i read it was basically gastro resistent ...

http://www.slipperyelm.biz/slipperyelm-for-dogs-cats.html

That should help horses as well.........

 

[paigejackson123]

my boy was diagnosed with ulcers last year, just a few.. nothing major at all! i refused Gastro Guard because the vets said my boy would manage on supplements and a proper diet! i WOULD NOT put all the stuff into his body and have them burnt out of his tummy and all that pain when there is still a chance they can come back after the treatment. my boy is doing amazing, he is never in any pain, he is on a managed diet and 2 supplements and you would never now he had ulcers. i am happy with the chose i made and wouldnt turn back, just my opinion. everything works different for every horse.

 

[applecart14]

My horse is on slippery elm powder from this ebay shop Geordie256 (The Alchemists Alchemy).

Its £7.00 including postage for 100grams which will last you about three or four weeks. I've had two lots of the 100g bags now and feed a teaspoon in his feed once a day. He is also on Haylage Balancer by Natural Animal Feeds as I still wanted to feed haylage, even though I am feeding much smaller amounts than I used to.

I also fed the herb Meadowsweet but he didn't like it so I stopped feeding it, but I may try and reintroduce it as it wasn't cheap.

 

[maggiesmum]

my boy was diagnosed with ulcers last year, just a few.. nothing major at all! i refused Gastro Guard because the vets said my boy would manage on supplements and a proper diet! i WOULD NOT put all the stuff into his body and have them burnt out of his tummy and all that pain when there is still a chance they can come back after the treatment. my boy is doing amazing, he is never in any pain, he is on a managed diet and 2 supplements and you would never now he had ulcers. i am happy with the chose i made and wouldnt turn back, just my opinion. everything works different for every horse.

Gastrogard doesn't burn ulcers away, where on earth have you heard that!!! There isn't anything that actually heals an ulcer, GG suppresses stomach acid production which gives the ulcer a chance to heal itself, giving the treatment causes the horse immense relief not pain or suffering, there is a chance they can come back I think this is more likely if the horse is subject to the same conditions that caused the ulcers in the first place.

 

[Palisan]

my boy was diagnosed with ulcers last year, just a few.. nothing major at all! i refused Gastro Guard because the vets said my boy would manage on supplements and a proper diet! i WOULD NOT put all the stuff into his body and have them burnt out of his tummy and all that pain when there is still a chance they can come back after the treatment. my boy is doing amazing, he is never in any pain, he is on a managed diet and 2 supplements and you would never now he had ulcers. i am happy with the chose i made and wouldnt turn back, just my opinion. everything works different for every horse.

GastroGuard doesn't burn anything away - where did that come from?! It stops the acid allowing the ulcers to heal and takes away the pain not give the horse more pain. Once the ulcers (or in my horse's case the scar tissue from having had ulcers when he raced) have healed then you can use supplements/management to help prevent the re occurrence of the ulcers or scar tissue inflammation.

 

[catembi]

I am thinking of having my horse scoped.

He is an ex-racer who actually raced 18 times & had 7 top two placings. He looks fine in himself & holds his weight, but he is usually v grumpy, esp being groomed, rugs changed & girthed. In the school at home, he is laid back bordering on idle, but is prone to v sudden panic attacks when he goes completely bananas.

Situations like loading & comp environment set him off. Someone told me today that if an ulcered horse gets stressed, they produce a lot of acid v suddenly which then floods the ulcers & gives a pain response. This kind-of makes sense as my horse is either fine or nuts... but she was also trying to sell me an expensive gastro supplement...

Does this behaviour sound like ulcers or am I reading too much into it?

T x

 

[maggiesmum]

I am thinking of having my horse scoped.

He is an ex-racer who actually raced 18 times & had 7 top two placings. He looks fine in himself & holds his weight, but he is usually v grumpy, esp being groomed, rugs changed & girthed. In the school at home, he is laid back bordering on idle, but is prone to v sudden panic attacks when he goes completely bananas.

Situations like loading & comp environment set him off. Someone told me today that if an ulcered horse gets stressed, they produce a lot of acid v suddenly which then floods the ulcers & gives a pain response. This kind-of makes sense as my horse is either fine or nuts... but she was also trying to sell me an expensive gastro supplement...

Does this behaviour sound like ulcers or am I reading too much into it?

T x

Sounds exactly like mine, he was either Jekyll or Hyde!
He scoped clear but is being treated for colonic ulcers which are just as common if not more so, I'd definitely get the scope done.
Have you seen this video on acupressure points too...??
http://www.forageplus.com/forageplusequineulcers.html

 

[npage123]

Micramadam - thank you for starting this thread

Maggiesmum - great link, thank you