Ulcers and possible tying up/pssm

Roxylola

Roxylola

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Random one. So supercob has been rather less than super for a little while, no obvious issues, saddle etc checked. So we are trying a supplement for gut health in respect of ulcers and it's worked beyond my wildest dreams to be honest. I have a happy cob again.
But, both times hes had it hes gone briefly afterwards muscle twitchy. Now the only horses I've known do that have done it at the start of an episode of tying up. He doesn't get any tighter and actually walking clears it.
He shows no reluctance to work, no dark wee, no issues after work.
But, of all the things I want to avoid trying up is very high on that list. So we are supplementing vitamin e immediately and will monitor further from there.
I wondered though, has anyone had anything like this? The ulcer supplement is making a world of difference - its naf daily gut health I think. I wondered if maybe he's holding tension in his muscles due to the ulcers and as that works the tension relaxes leading to something, maybe.
He's a coloured cob - but fairly light weight, he's fit for the work hes doing and getting fitter and his bum is nice and wobbly
Can I ask as well, in respect of scoping, treating etc ulcers what sort of cost are we looking at. Is it worth just treating and managing - suggestions welcome for that.
 
Eeek, was under the impression it was a course often a course of gastrogard which I thought might not be too painful for the purse! Wondering if as he's radically different on the supplement it's worth just managing for ulcers and just monitoring especially as scoping is pretty unpleasant for them
 
I would want to get to the bottom of things, they rarely have ulcers without a primary issue that causes them, poor management can do but if he was in a good routine with plenty of forage available I would suspect there is something else going on and that is causing the tension which may be more obvious if his tummy is not also so uncomfortable, if management could be a cause then getting that right would make sense before looking into things further.
Both the horses I have had here with suspected ulcers had other issues going on, 1 was scoped as he had all the signs but was clear so we then looked further and found a problem with his feet, the second has not been scoped as we knew there was more going on and that if she had them everything else required treating in order to clear them, both were in full work, competing regularly, one was doing BE, seemed to be sound, even to the vets when first checked, yet had some fairly serious stuff going on once we really investigated.
 
Ulcers were the route we went down before PSSM was diagnosed. She didn't really respond to omeprazole which was the clue something else was going on - and her ulcers on the scope weren't even that bad. The scope itself isn't that expensive but the drugs are eye wateringly pricey.

I didn't see the muscle twitches as problematic back then. I just didn't know what I was looking at and can remember telling a fellow livery I thought she had a trapped nerve in her shoulder because that's exactly what the twitching reminded me of. She also used to walk it off and had no other obvious signs that I would have said "tying up".

That isn't to say yours has PSSM, but it so cheap to test for type 1 ( here ) that I always think it is worth ruling in / out before you start investigations with the vets. They rarely seem to think of it and there are so many stories on the FB pages about people running up £1000s of vet bills before PSSM was diagnosed.

The main ingredient in the NAF supplement seems to be brewers yeast and I can't think of any reason why that would make a horse twitchy just after he's eaten it!
 
He's not mine, I just ride him, so while I can research and make suggestions it isn't going to be my decision.
History briefly, I started with him in October about when the horses came in for winter I didn't have much history but he was basically a willing little cob with not much of a canter. Forward thinking responsive and as he'd done more driving than anything else this seemed reasonable.
My role was to improve his schooling and get him out doing things. We started to establish a canter transition but he found that hard and often had a little buck or bronc with it, but otherwise he's come on massively.
Fast forward to now, he's getting girthy, and objecting to the leg at all, still forward thinking nothing like any experience of tying up I've had. However I've also found that he's not actually ever done any formal schooling ever until I started. And this was when the horses came in for winter so management change, major life change (he's now expected to be a performance cob not a field ornament) - could be enough for ulcers as he is a sensitive soul. Equally I guess they could have always been present but maybe the harder work has aggravated them.
Or he's been low grade PSSM or something forever and that combined with work has triggered ulcers.
He had vitamin E yesterday along with the gut stuff, no twitch and had a nice chilled out hack as a leg stretch (I say nice we needed a snorkel and flippers but he was happy enough)
 
SEL said:
Ulcers were the route we went down before PSSM was diagnosed. She didn't really respond to omeprazole which was the clue something else was going on - and her ulcers on the scope weren't even that bad. The scope itself isn't that expensive but the drugs are eye wateringly pricey.

I didn't see the muscle twitches as problematic back then. I just didn't know what I was looking at and can remember telling a fellow livery I thought she had a trapped nerve in her shoulder because that's exactly what the twitching reminded me of. She also used to walk it off and had no other obvious signs that I would have said "tying up".

That isn't to say yours has PSSM, but it so cheap to test for type 1 ( here ) that I always think it is worth ruling in / out before you start investigations with the vets. They rarely seem to think of it and there are so many stories on the FB pages about people running up £1000s of vet bills before PSSM was diagnosed.

The main ingredient in the NAF supplement seems to be brewers yeast and I can't think of any reason why that would make a horse twitchy just after he's eaten it!
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Scoped for grade 2 ulcers which we are treating but clearly are not the main cause of all this. He did handily display his twitchy muscles - all over this time - as he was loaded up to leave so the vet has seen, agrees with the testing for type 1 initially and proposes a muscle biopsy of that proves negative. He's happy for us to cram vitamin e in for now, between that the magnesium and replacing a small handful of chop with topspec alfa we have mostly (but clearly not entirely) got to the point where we are not seeing tremors/twitching but I am not finding his bum and back is fully loose and as soft as I would like. We walk a lot to warm up and are wearing an exercise sheet where we can at least at first.

Some of the issue now is that he is a bit fit and fresh - mentally he could do with cracking on and having a good canter at the start but I'm wary of muscle damage now
 
Roxylola said:
Some of the issue now is that he is a bit fit and fresh - mentally he could do with cracking on and having a good canter at the start but I'm wary of muscle damage now
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Its a good idea to be sensible until you know what you are dealing with. The longest tie-up mine took to recover from was when a yard rider took her into trot straight from the stable because she was being naughty - I took her to a clinic the next day without knowing and she could barely trot. Its hard trying to explain to someone who doesn't deal with muscular disorders that even if the horse is being naughty it MUST walk to warm up. I've had it myself when she's spooking a being silly and you just want to get them trotting and focusing on going forward but instead there is a lot of deep breathing and thinking 'just waaaaaallkkkk'.

Let us know how you get on. Kind of hope it isn't PSSM even though that would give you an answer!
 
Thanks - it's a tough one, vet having seen him yesterday agrees there is something. He's keen to do the muscle biopsy if the strand test comes back negative - I believe (wasn't there) that they would be checking multiple things not just pssm at that point.

Currently and I'm hoping he's just sore from scoping but he doesn't want to eat at the moment so he back to small amounts of molassed chaff mixed in to get the stuff down him :rolleyes:
 
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