(UN!)loading problem! - Help please - at my wits end!

tammyisback

tammyisback

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Hi,

Haven't posted on here for ages as the site has been blocked at work! Woops, anyway, have managed to borrow a computer as I need some advice, I am completely out of ideas.

Ok, my mare is 3yo, as a yearling she tripped whilst unloading from a lorry and ever since has had a complete phobia of ramps. Fine once inside a trailer and travels beautifully but petrified, and I mean petrified of the ramp. So I spent the last two years working on this and got to the stage where I can load her (by jumping the in ramp) and reverse off whilst at home on a trailer, however if we go out anywhere she point blank refuses to get off the trailer by reversing, and I mean, there is nothing that anyone can do to get her to back off if she doesn't know where she is.

Ok, so here is the real problem, she won't unload forwards.

She is so petrified of walking forwards down the ramp, when she is inside the trailer she won't even look at the down ramp. She will happily stand in the trailer all day, I have to really really encourage and shout and use a schooling whip to tap her side to try and get her to step towards the ramp and then when she does move, by christ there better not be anyone in the way. She leaps from the partitioned bit of the trailer straight out and lands about 5 metres away from the trailer, i'm not exaggerating. It is dangerous and it is breaking my heart because I cant seem to show her that if she walks slowly it won't be so scary. Each time she bangs and crashes and leaps out it is scaring her even more.

So anyway, this week mum and I got a posh new trailer, a Fautras Provan with double doors front and back and no ramp, absoutely no ramp, hoping this wuld resolve the problem and help her to calm down. I was so excited to try her on it, walked her straight on the back, no problems, no leaping to get in! I was so pleased with her, however when we got to the front same problem, wouldn't even look at the exit had to coax and coax and coax to try to get her to take a step, and then when she does move she leaps straight out in one go. There is no time for whoa and steady, by the time you've realised whats happened she's out of the trailer.

I've had a number of 'experts' paid professionals come to see her and spent a small fortune on sessions to try and help her, that is how i've got her loading after all, however no-one seems to be able to help her over her fear of coming out of the trailer. She is worse on a lorry, and that's even more dangerous due to the steeper ramp.

I've tried everything I can think of, even going up the down ramp and out the back of the trailer (bigger gap) to try and desensitive her to the ramp but shes just the same. I really need to know if anyone's had a similar problem and found something that worked or knows someone that may be able to help me as I really am out of ideas and I don't want to give up on my dream of being able to take her out to places in the future.

Tamx
 
If it was me I would probably spend time building a ramp simulator ;) That goes up, levels and then down again, like wheelchair access ones back to back and walk over them time and time again until she settles without the added trailer stress. Someone has obviously made sure the trailer is her 'safe' area and done a good job by the looks :D
 
I shall watch with great interest as I have exactly the same problem. To the extent that I now have difficulty getting her ON the trailer because she is anticipating the off bit.
 
I think you may have to live with it, make sure you unload on to grass, use a lunge rein and let her jump off if she wants to. I assume you have tried shaving and straw on the ramp, I would try something smelly on a light cover of shaving, something she might find interesting, but have not got as far as thinking of something, check out essential oils.
At many racing venues they have a raised platform just like a railway platform, so that the lorry ramp is flat when lowered, but I don't suppose you have one handy! and you need to get trailer tight alongside so feet can't get trapped.
Do a lot more pole-work and handling in hand, use a labarynth, ie poles she has to cross one way and the other, put out rubber mats and tarpaulins, use tail bandages round her rump and body to give her a sense of her her body is, do not under any circumstance force the issue as I think she is trying really hard for you otherwise sh e would not load.
 
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Thanks Winklepoker, yes it certainly is her safe area, which would be great if I could get her off! The ramp simulator is one of the things we have done and when ramps are in a different context they are no problem at all! I think its the ramp and the doorway at the same time to be honest! She will also walk in and out of various narrow doorways in and out of barns and up and down steps with no problems! It is so frustrating. I have considered giving her some sedalin to get her to do it calmly and see if this makes her realise its not to scary however my vet doesn't seem to think this is the answer!
 
MrsD, I think the jumping out maybe one of those things, but I do worry about her injuring herself due to the manner she does it (she has done so several times despite boots etc) and also upsetting other horses nearby at showgrounds, she appears out of nowhere! X

9tails- I am so glad there is someone in my position! Thought I must be the only one out there with a horse with a back to front loading problem!
 
Sedolin is not a good idea as she might fall over, try to rope in a confident and sprightly horse handler to do the loading for you. Also try the breathing technique, 12345 in, 1... 2...... 3......... 4........ 5..... out Do this as much as you can, during the day, not just when with horse, it actually works for me, [a sceptic]
Oh what about those magnesium calmer syringes?
You can handle her in a bridle, I used to have to do this with two of my horses, they both lacked confidence, and gradually got better, the one that used to jump, I took a good grip of her near the bit, and made her walk down one step at a time, but I must say she was nothing like yours, just a bit nervous
Make sure you arrive at any competition venue before the crowds so you can be on you own, it may help if you travel with an old pony, and take said pony well out of range of a jumping horse but in sight of your horse.
 
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Go with the sedalin... anything is worth a try! Failing that, food on the ramp? Have you triend leding the opposite way in so the 'out ramp' is wider? Can you stop her on the ramp on the way in? then back off/on ramp/off - so she isnt actually going in the trailer just on the ramp and off again?
 
tammyisback said:
Thanks Winklepoker, yes it certainly is her safe area, which would be great if I could get her off! The ramp simulator is one of the things we have done and when ramps are in a different context they are no problem at all! I think its the ramp and the doorway at the same time to be honest! She will also walk in and out of various narrow doorways in and out of barns and up and down steps with no problems! It is so frustrating. I have considered giving her some sedalin to get her to do it calmly and see if this makes her realise its not to scary however my vet doesn't seem to think this is the answer!
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well maybe if you out the ramp simulator indoors, as in a barn door way to start and just get her walking in and out, then move up to in and out of the stable door, but only do the move once she is calm with the larger space.

but if she is happy backing out then maybe thats the best way to go, just reverse her out?
 
Ok… well here is an idea I've just come up with…

How about you put her in the trailer (in your field) before feeding time. Then leave the forward ramp down, BUT put her feed bowl at the bottom of the ramp.

Make sure that the ONLY way to get to her feed bowl is to walk down the ramp.

The let her go down the ramp in her own time.

I mean if she is still in the horsebox the following morning then you definitely have a problem.

However, when she does eventually make her own way down the ramp - she has got over her fear herself.

I suppose if you did this a few times until she will walk straight down the ramp to her food without hesitation.

Just and idea!
 
Have you tried loading her with something else and then off loading the other horse first to show her how its done ?
 
Move the trailer into her field, then bring her in every day for a token feed and groom, then instead of turning her out load her onto the trailer in the field, pop the back bar across, leave her for a couple of minutes, open up the front and leave the field.
Keep an eye on her but do not get into her line of sight and let her make the decision to off load. Keep doing this until she is taking herself off before you have time to leave the field (could by days or weeks - be patient) then the next time walk her straight through.
Once she is OK with both loading and off loading move the trailer back the yard and start again but this time on a long line without pressure - hopefully she will work out that off loading does not harm her and it is just part of her routine.
 
I've not had experience of a ramp issue but do with a bridge (and puddle, used to do a lot of surprise jumping over them when ridden!) one.

For those...
- plenty of opportunity to look at own pace/sniff around
- following someone else (for us it was fine if just a person on the bridge but not safe for puddles, in your circs I think that could be dangerous so maybe a large cob or similar that she can follow up/down the ramp (but won't jump into!))
- polos (or any other suitable bribe) for putting nose/one foot/two feet etc on scary bridge/into puddle
- lost of praise and nice things happening on bridge/in puddle
(you could also try clicker training for this)

We never got /happy/ about bridges but would cross them and we did get to the stage with puddles were he would be difficult to get *out* of them as it was so much fun splashing.

Agree with comment above about trying similar things (ramp flat on floor, slightly raised at one end) that aren't a trailer. Do you do any hacking (or leading/long reining as she is still so young) anywhere with steps? Could you get her walking up and down a tiny x-county step-style affair or just natural bits of uneven ground?

I think with a 3yo you have a reasonable amount of time to fix this and you obviously are good with her and care so you shoudl be able to improve it at very least.
 
PS: wrt leaving trailer in field many types are only stable and safe if hitched to something so do check that out for your model as you don't want to ruin the good effect by having it tip over! You might be OK if you leave the towing vehicle in too.
 
I assume you've let her see another horse walking through the trailer? x Can you put her feed somewhere so she HAS to go on ramp? Park the trailer so when the back is open it is against a wall with enough room to fit her food at the bottom of the ramp and bring her in through the front? x

Does she go down other slopes/ramps etc ok? x

When you do this is the partition in or out? x

Poor pony is obviously not being naughty though...just scared! x

If experts with the pull and release technique can't do it then i think this may just be her! x She may learn in time that she doesn't have to jump it! x If she won't get off at a show, i'd put the lunge rein behind her bum...i'm sure she'll stop jumping it in time!!

When i was little, at night when i wanted to get up for a wee i used to think wolves were under my bed! lol so i used to stand on my bed and jump as far away from the bed as possible...then run to the loo (incase the 'wolves' got me!) I guess this is her sort of theory....thnkfully, i don't do this anymore (my boyfriend would think i'm wierd!!) so hopefully she'll grow out of it too!! x
 
My mare was like this, I just always reversed her off. Had someone beside the trailer to rub her bum to let her know they were there, then they could just gently push on her backside if it looked as if she was going to step off sideways. Would that be a problem?
In fact, I always reverse mine off come to think of it, I hardly ever use the front ramps.
 
lcharles said:
When i was little, at night when i wanted to get up for a wee i used to think wolves were under my bed! lol so i used to stand on my bed and jump as far away from the bed as possible...then run to the loo (incase the 'wolves' got me!) I guess this is her sort of theory....thnkfully, i don't do this anymore (my boyfriend would think i'm wierd!!) so hopefully she'll grow out of it too!! x
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Too much information......I actually had a visual image of Peter Pan in striped pyjamas!, but I am now assuming you were in a pink nightdress, though one can't be sure in these days of gender bending!
Back to the post: It is possible the horse is not as worried as the owner, nothing has happened to date, and I think she will be fine in the long term, I always insure young TB's because they get themselves in to all sorts of dangerous situations, so far they have all come out unblemished.
 
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I really feel for you. My boy used to do EXACTLY the same... for similar reasons - he scared himself silly through one bad experience.

Letting her continue to jump out, as another poster sugested is NOT the way to go. it is dangerous for you and her.

All I can sugest (what worked for my boy) is to stick her nose in a bowl of feed (litterally hold the bowl to her nose) and walk out LITERALLY step by step. pausing and praising as you go. you may need some helpers (to hold the bucket and help steady her) but it should solve the problem. you will however need to repeat this process over and over again.

In addition to this, make sure you open your internal partition so that she has as much space to turn as possible and make sure your ramp feels secure underfoot - use blocks to level it if necessary.

Make sure you wear hat, gloves and BP too.
 
i wouldn't sedate.
daft as it sounds, i would get her held close to a trailer or lorry (ideally one with a ramp) and use another horse, a VERY sensible loader and unloader, and repeatedly load and unload it while she is watching. i've had one get over a loading phobia like this. show her that it's fine, they can learn from this sort of thing imho.
also, stand with her at the bottom of the ramp, and you walk up and down it, up and down, eventually dance around on it, so she can see that it's fine, it holds weight, it doesn't matter that it makes a noise, it is solid and safe.
then i would spend as long as it takes (as in, set aside 4 hours, then it won't take long, if you try to hurry it it will take all day!) getting her to put a foot on, take a foot off, put a foot on, take a foot off. then two feet. loads of patience (a bored demeanour from you would be best), lots of praise, lots of treats. then three feet. then four feet, on and off (backwards) until she learns that the ramp really can be trusted 100%.
then, when that is absolutely 100%, do the same on the front ramp, from the outside in (as it's a different ramp she won't trust initially even if she's learnt to trust the rear one). finally, finally, lead in and out. distract with food if she even thinks of rushing, oodles of praise when she waits and thinks.
i hope that helps.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions people! I will definately try putting another horse directly in front of her so that she cant jump however I have a feeling that she might refuse to move until the path is clear for a leap!! I have tried with partitions in and out and in all different vehicles. I have desensitized her to walking over all kinds of things, even down ramps into a river, up steps from the river, in and out of barns up and down ramps and steps and over tarpaulins, having flags and carrier bags all over her and everything me and others can think of, its literally the exiting the trailer business. She will lead perfectly anywhere I want to take her, and even when scared usually just opts to stay near me and follow doing what I do. I just want to be able to say to her - 'you're the one making it scary!' Think I will also try the loading her up and leaving her in there and walking away! You never know she might look before she leaps then at the very least, and if she didn't feel pressured to come out and it was her decision then maybe just maybe she might walk! Thanks for all the ideas so far, please keep them coming, i've been trying 2 years, so I need ideas for the next two years!! Point taken about the sedolin too, but those magnesium tubes don't seem to have any effect for her!
 
Most youngsters come off a ramp a bit like that, and settle over time. I think that the fact that its stressing and worrying you won't be helping either, so I'd perhaps have someone else (calm and experienced) load and unload her for a while. Sometimes its worse when its your horse - I find I stress and worry over things with my own, when I deal much better with crisis in other people's horses...

Its hard to really comment without actually seeing the horse. I agree that you should feed the horse in the trailer every night, and try and get it a routine thing. If the horse leaps off the ramp totally, perhaps park it next to a wall, so there is nowhere to jump to, and the horse has to turn at the bottom of the ramp? This may make the horse hesitate a little and trust you enough to follow you with a feed bucket. Allow another horse to go first, then open the front as wide as possible.

Just had another thought. Could you back her up a ramp now and again, just so one foot is on initially, and walk her off, then build up to two hind feet on, and move her backwards gradually further up after several times - so that she is learning to walk off the bottom of the ramp and that its not scarey without the added thing of leaving the trailer too....
 
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CBFan said:
I really feel for you. My boy used to do EXACTLY the same... for similar reasons - he scared himself silly through one bad experience.

Letting her continue to jump out, as another poster sugested is NOT the way to go. it is dangerous for you and her.
Make sure you wear hat, gloves and BP too.
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I have unloaded hundreds of horse [in my younger days, not nowadays], most were unknown animals, I lived to tell the tale, and no horses were injured. horse are able to jump perfectly well without injuring themselves, and if people get in the way, then they should not have got in the away
I am not advocating allowing horses to jump out of the trailer, but I do not think it is the end of the world.
 
CBFan said:
I really feel for you. My boy used to do EXACTLY the same... for similar reasons - he scared himself silly through one bad experience.

Letting her continue to jump out, as another poster sugested is NOT the way to go. it is dangerous for you and her.
Make sure you wear hat, gloves and BP too.
Click to expand...
I have unloaded hundreds of horse [in my younger days, not nowadays], most were unknown animals, I lived to tell the tale, and no horses were injured. horse are able to jump perfectly well without injuring themselves, and if people get injured, then they should not have got in the way.
I am not advocating allowing horses to jump out of the trailer, but I do not think it is the end of the world.
 
I agree with that, if the horse is otherwise quite calm, and you have a long rope on the headcollar, it's not the end of the world. Just stand back and let them out. The other thing about that is that, if you do it a lot, it becomes less of an issue and the horse will often become a lot more receptive about coming out calmly.
If you want her to come out forwards you could try plan B. Hat, gloves, a lunge line, and walk her round and round, in and out, and see how she's going by the time you've come out for say the 20th time.
p.s. I personally wouldn't put anything in front of her to try to change her mind about jumping, not another horse, nothing. Someone or some horse could get injured that way.
 
honey08 just beat me to suggesting you back her up a ramp.
but not sure if you have still got access to a trailer with ramp, I just looked up your ramp-less Fautras...

another thing that occurred to me - could you ask around to see if anyone has one of those side-loading renault master conversion boxes with the really low ramp - horse goes on and off sideways rather than straight down (horse has to turn off/on the ramp as they load/unload so might just give her that bit of time to think about things).

ok a box is not directly comparable to a trailer but the noise/enclosed space will be similar.

my mare used to leap off the ramp, not that I had a trailer or box so not that much of an issue. it's horrid - I do sympathise.
 
Hadn't thought of that TinyPony! I will also definately try backing her up the ramp if I can, that might be the answer. I guess I just need to stop making a problem of her jumping off for now. Stand well out of the way and hope that eventually she will look and realise that there isn't a big deal with copying her big brother and just walking out!
 
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