Unable to stop car when towing

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Patches

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Had a "moment" towing home today. Coming down a steep hill I had to give way to traffic that was on my side of the road as it was passing parked cars on the opposite side to me.

I braked steadily and then realised that the car was rolling slightly and I couldn't stop it under braking. It was only a slow crawl, but could've caused problems had I needed to give way much longer. Car is a Maverick and I had an Ifor and two horses on the back. Judging by weigh tapes of horses I was 800kgs under the towing limit.

Trailer brakes have been check recently and the car had work to the brakes when it had it's MOT at the end of March.

I keep playing it over and wondering if I didn't have my foot on brakes hard enough. Never had a problem pulling or stopping before.
 
What has happened here is called 'Brake fade'. This happens mainly with lorries/heavy vehicles when they carry out prolonged braking on steep hills. The brake pads & disks get very warm & heat is almost like a lubricant on brakes & the friction between pad & disk which normally slow the vehicle ceases to work.
To avoid this happening you need to engage a low gear at an early stage in the descent & use your brakes sparingly. Certainly do not ride the brakes down the hill. Allow the engine to control the speed of descent. If you are in an automatic you can do the same, select a lower gear. OK
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I was in a low gear as I do always use the gearbox to slow the car on any sort of bank downhill.

Could the trailer brakes have brake fade too? My car was stopped in the sense that the wheels were screeching so clearly not turning as the car was sliding down the road?
 
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I was in a low gear as I do always use the gearbox to slow the car on any sort of bank downhill.

Could the trailer brakes have brake fade too? My car was stopped in the sense that the wheels were screeching so clearly not turning as the car was sliding down the road?

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Sounds scary! I hope you get to the bottom of it.
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Might be worth getting your trailer checked over - could you hear the brakes on the trailer? (usually Ifors have a loud squeal)

A maverick should have no problems with that set up - so makes me thing that the brakes on the trailer were not working properly.
 
If the brakes on your car were locked & you were being pushed down the hill then there must be a problem with the trailer brakes. I would suggest that you take it into somewhere like a caravan servicing centre for them to service the brakes. This problem could have had disasterous effects.........scarey when you get pushed along isn't it
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Well it wasn't too scary as there was plenty of room and I didn't have to come to a stop, but it was scary in the sense of "what might have been".

Our car mechanic had looked at trailer a while ago and put a new dampener (sp) on the hitch. Will call the trailer place and book it in. It's an old trailer (about 15 years) but has been regularly serviced.

Definitely don't fancy a repeat.
 
So far sounds like the trailer has 'brake fade or more likely that the Maverick is not up to the job, aren't they quite small/light 4x4's ?
 
It's a long wheel base Maverick and can tow up to 2800kgs. With trailer and according to weigh tapes of horses I was a good 850kgs under the limit. Never had a problem before and have regularly towed two horses with the outfit.

Yes, some vehicles tow up to 3500kgs, but I wouldn't really say the Maverick isn't up to the job generally speaking.
 
Well, I dunno, but the Maverick has a towing limit of either 1500kg for the 2.0 or 1700 for the 3.0. You quite sure you're within the limits? An Ifor fully laden can be 2340Kgs max. You must be sure that the Gross Trailer Weight does not exceed the Towing Capacity of the towing vehicle.
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What model have you got there?

Oh bggr didn't see your post!!! Didn't know they did one that heavy!!
 
I would have the brake linkage mechanism on the trailer checked out and greased up. Also remove the brake drums on the trailer and check the brake cylinders and pads. Do the same on the car but also get the brake fluid in the brake fluid resevoir checked out. Has the brake fluid in the car been replaced recently?
 
No idea where you got those figures from as my Maverick is a 2.7Tdi. Newer Mavericks are made by Mazda and are nothing like the Maverick/Terrano that I have.

Weight of car is only 1825kgs but the towing capacity is 2800kgs for braked trailers, of which horse trailers are.

I've had it weigh bridged before as there's a weigh bridge up the lane from us. With Patches on board, it's 1580kgs. My friend's horse weighs about 500kgs.
 
Brake fluid in car was changed at the MOT in March. Only done 2200 miles since then.

I'm certainly suspecting it's the trailer at fault. Will get hubby on to it or book it in for a service.
 
I don't know why vehicle manufacturers put recommended tow weights that are higher than the weight of the vehicle itself. The caravan club sensibly recommends that you should never tow anything that's 85% above the weight of the vehicle (that includes braked trailers). You can go up to 100% but you should NEVER tow anything that's heavier than your vehicle. If I listened to my car manufacturers recommendations I would just get away with towing my 16.2hh in my Ifor trailer and that's with a vauxhall Astra!! Madness.
I have a Freelander and its Tow weight is 1800KG, however, I use my Sprinter Van instead which is a similar size to my trailer and of course is significantly heavier with a much higher towing weight. It's also designed for the job.
You really can't be too carefull. I know someone who rolled a glider trailer and that was using a Defender which does have a 3500KG limit. It was caused by snaking that was triggered by a lorry overtaking.
Yes, it may be due to an issue with your trailer, but if I were you I wouldn't tow over 1800KG with your vehicle. Just my thoughts though!
 
Manufacturers test the capabilities of the car and wouldn't recommend a weight unless it was safe to do so.
Sounds like it was a problem with the trailor. Could be the dampner seized up, or brake failure on the trailor, cables might need adjusting. Get it all checked over for piece of mind.
 
I've had this conversation before about the 85% towing rule. 85% towing rule would mean I could tow about 1475kgs (trying to remember the previous post). That would mean that even in my large 4x4 I wouldn't be able to tow my Ifor Williams 505 and one horse. Following that recommendation there seems little point in having trailers at all, much less two horse trailers! Land Rovers may have a 3500kgs towing capacity but the car itself doesn't weigh that much by a long shot.

If my memory also serves me correctly the 85% towing rule was something that was recommended many years ago before braked caravans were the norm. All modern caravans have a sophisticated braking system which comes into play when the caravan pushes on the tow ball of the vehicle...horse trailers work in a similar way.

When this was first mentioned many months ago, the general consensus was that people towing horses will rarely reach the speeds that those towing caravans do, particularly when cornering. I'm regularly over taken by caravans when travelling on dual carriageways.

I will agree with one thing though, I think that horse trailers should be fitted with anti snake stabilisers like caravans have to have when they are on the motorways. Mine isn't, but I never tow on the motorways anyway. I'm sure that one day there will be a law passed enforcing that.

My Maverick has regularly towed two horses over a period of time. We live in a very hilly area and it never has any trouble pulling up hills or stopping down steep banks, until yesterday. It may have been a one off as I did see the car on my side of the road having just passed a blind bend and was mindful to not stop suddenly for fear of unbalancing the horses. I generally slow my car through the gears, but had to stop a bit quicker than I normally would and therefore there wasn't time to allow the downshifting to reduce the engine speed. As I said, I was also mindful of not stopping too suddenly, even though the situation called for sudden braking, and could therefore have contributed to putting strain on the car and the trailer's braking system. It's also highly possible that I read the situation wrong and the car or caravan's tyres had simply locked up under braking because of the limited time I'd had to see the car, react and come to a halt.

Will most definitely be checking the trailer out though as I'm pretty confident the car is mechanically sound, having recently had it's brakes over hauled. I checked with both the local mechanic, the AA and the Trailer dealer when I had the trailer. Everyone assured me that I would be perfectly fine to tow the weight of two horses, so long as both the towing vehicle and the trailer were well maintained.
 
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Manufacturers test the capabilities of the car and wouldn't recommend a weight unless it was safe to do so.
Sounds like it was a problem with the trailor. Could be the dampner seized up, or brake failure on the trailor, cables might need adjusting. Get it all checked over for piece of mind.

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Thank you. I will do. I'm suspecting the dampener (spell check keeps telling me I need the extra "e" but it doesn't look right! lol). I recently had a new dampener fitted. Perhaps some adjustment was necessary or there was something not quite right with the installation. Will hitch up to it in the morning and test whether the dampener extends and retracts when moving off/reversing. That's something that even I can look out for (useless that I am mechanically)
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No idea about anything mechanical but I know when I brake I can really feel the trailer brakes come on and often it feels like reverse thrust!

My trailer is about the same age as yours. It had new brake pads last year and everything regreased again this year.

If you car feels OK without the trailer I'd think it's the trailer with the problem.
 
The thing with the Landrover was my point. They say it can tow 3500Kg, Gross vehicle weight is 3050KG but the Kerbweight (which is the one you should go by) is only 2041KG. This is a 110 station wagon.
Yes I'm sure that manufacturers test vehicles, however, it's just common sense to think you should have a heavier (or at least the same weight) vehicle in charge of a combination. Personally, why bother risking it. My Freelander has far more power than my van, but my god do you notice the trailer on the freelander. You don't feel it at all on the van. Having power to go up hills is great (my astra would have oodles at 150BHP but I would never ever risk it) but it's not the important bit.
This is from what car, and it's not old info. Please note the words 'from a safety point of view'.
http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=220090&EL=3160048
 
PS I'm not trying to start a fight. It's just a subject I feel very strongly about. I've done a lot of towing, all sorts or trailers, and you can feel the difference when you tow with a really heavy solid vehicle. That said, I'm not a fan of towing 2 Horses anyway in any vehicle. It's a lot of weight, the weight is high up and isn't 100% stable. Guess we all need to win the lottery and buy lorries eh?!!! It's just I've seen what can happen if things go wrong..even through no fault of your own. Hope you find your solution.
 
You ought to go to the horse shows where I see Mondeos towing a Ifor 510 trailer and two big hunters, or the show I went to when I saw Astra with a really old brick of a trailer and a large horse in it.

In an ideal world we'd all have Land Rover's to tow with. I'm about to buy a new car in the next couple of months but all the Land Rover's we've looked at may be 8 years younger than our car, but have done far more miles than ours. Didn't like the idea of buying a newer car that's been around the clock to the tune of 140,000 miles.

We will either have a Terrano again, or maybe consider the Ssang Yong Rexton, which also has a towing capacity of 3500kgs. Purely because we're looking for something under 5 years old that has done under 60,000miles.

Lorries are lovely, I will agree, but I can't justify the expense to keep one just to go to pleasure rides and the odd local show a year. Bit selfish of me if I did that when there's four children and a hubby to consider. Only me and Hannah would have any use out of it.

I understand your point, I really do. I wish the people who posted on my thread all those months ago, would post again and explain why they felt it was safe to tow horses with my outfit.

As for stability....horses are still a tall, moving load be they in a trailer or a lorry.
 
Thanks for your reply. I must admit, I never get that reverse thrust feeling, so again it confirms in my mind that the trailer is ready for a major overhaul.
 
Oooo...and I've just had another thought. Lorry traction units must weigh a fraction of the weight of the load they pull in the long trailers. You hear lorries described as 40 tonners. I'm sure that relates to over all weight and not the weight of the traction unit.

Same with our tractors here on the farm. Muck spreaders can weigh as much as 6 tonnes when they're full of poopy doop, hay and other bales on trailers can reach vast weights that far exceed the weight of the tractor.
 
Patches is quite correct we have 42 tonne artic lorries, the tractor unit of even the newest double cab mercedes actros is only around 8.5 tonnes, the load it carries/pulls is over 30 tonnes.

Now I know lorries have air braking systems that tow vehicles dont but even so if you actually go and have a proper look round a bulker trailer you will find there is not much difference between the chassis of a horse trailer other than extra axles and size differentials.
 
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Patches is quite correct we have 42 tonne artic lorries, the tractor unit of even the newest double cab mercedes actros is only around 8.5 tonnes, the load it carries/pulls is over 30 tonnes.

Now I know lorries have air braking systems that tow vehicles dont but even so if you actually go and have a proper look round a bulker trailer you will find there is not much difference between the chassis of a horse trailer other than extra axles and size differentials.

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Thank you for explaining the weights involved. There has been so much debate over towing before and I have read this "argument" on the forum time and time over. As someone on another forum told me, horse trailers have a double axle. Generally this means they want to travel in a straight line. Most caravans have a single axle which adds to their instability and liability to snake.
 
One other factor you could look at is the height of your tow bar, compared to that of the trailer. I know on my two Troopers it has been set quite high (higher than other 4x4s I have looked at) and I often have the feeling that when in use the front set of wheels on the trailer are not as heavy on the road as they should be, and excessive weight transfers to the rear axle of the towing vehicle. That might have the overall effect of making the car quite light at the front, especially with two horses on board, you would particularly notice this I think under braking.

Knowing that my setup isn't perfect I wouldn't ever carry two horses (have done 2 ponies though). So, when having your trailer looked at, it might be as well for the whole combination to be examined, although to replicate the conditions you would of course need to have 2 horses on board leaning forward.

I will be a lot happier the day I can afford to buy a lorry
 
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