Unacceptable at any level.

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Andy80

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I have just seen some footage, filmed covertly, of horses in the warm up area of a recent olympic dressage event. If this sort of treatment is 'usual' then anyone who participates, either as a competitor or spectator should be ashamed, very, very ashamed.
 
Difficult to know what you are referring to without a description or link to the film.

Did it look like the horses head and neck was really flexed with the jaw almost touching the chest? If yes, this rollkur/hyperflexion and has been the subject of numerous discussions. If you do a search on here you will find a lot on it.
 
The footage I've been shown is not posted on the internet nor do I think it will be. I have seen the rollkur/hyperflexion footage referred to and was appauled by that also. The footage I've seen is more exreme in that more riders are involved in a similar way. However, the fact that people have been discussing this subject, yet that abuse continues mearly compounds these activities.
 
Unfortunately the average steward is not brave enough to take-on a famous rider when they are abusing their horses. I also believe that there is a fair amount of abuse involved in getting horses to that top level.

In the H&H the other week there was an article about Ellen W. The photo's of her on a horse showed the draw reins on and the horses heads forced down. Why doesn't anyone complain about that ?
 
Over use of spurs perhaps?....we could start a guessing game
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The use of overly-bling browbands to embarrass the horses into keeping their heads down so that their friends don't recognise them..?

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I like that one
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of course I not guilty of such cruelty...
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As I said previously the footage I have seen is the same as the rollkur/hyperflexion incident but more extreme in as much as other riders were employing a similar technique. It is very interesting to note, however, that (apart from the sarcastic worthless comment), people are now trying to guess what abusive methods may be employed. How many are there? No doubt the answer is countless. Spurs, whips, every mechanical contraption of straps, reins and pullies to force a quick fix, instead of training, lightness and skill. Perhaps some of these 'famous riders' should be wearing a gimp mask, as they are obviously getting a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain, and discomfort, surely this is not all done in the overwhelming desire to win.
 
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I have just seen some footage, filmed covertly, of horses in the warm up area of a recent olympic dressage event. If this sort of treatment is 'usual' then anyone who participates, either as a competitor or spectator should be ashamed, very, very ashamed.

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Be brave and just say what you have seen, how on earth can abusive and cruel practices be fought or banned if we don't know what it is you are talking about???? This is still a free and democratic society you can report on what you have seen. Tell!!!!
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As I said previously the footage I have seen is the same as the rollkur/hyperflexion incident but more extreme in as much as other riders were employing a similar technique. It is very interesting to note, however, that (apart from the sarcastic worthless comment), people are now trying to guess what abusive methods may be employed. How many are there? No doubt the answer is countless. Spurs, whips, every mechanical contraption of straps, reins and pullies to force a quick fix, instead of training, lightness and skill. Perhaps some of these 'famous riders' should be wearing a gimp mask, as they are obviously getting a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain, and discomfort, surely this is not all done in the overwhelming desire to win.

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Sorry, my above post obviously crossed with yours.
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'Be brave and just say what you have seen, how on earth can abusive and cruel practices be fought or banned if we don't know what it is you are talking about???? This is still a free and democratic society you can report on what you have seen. Tell!!!! '

Seems to me that everyone knows whats going on, and has been for years but who cares? I like the comment about the average steward, that about sums things up.
 
So what is the point of this post please? Are you damning anyone and everyone who competes or spectates at dressage? Or are you hoping to find like-minded people who are equally horrified? If the latter then, whilst I appreciate you are new to the forum, perhaps enter "rollkur" or "hyperflexion" into the search facility and read our (HHO) opinions, as it has been discussed at length very recently.

However if you've just posted just to have a rant and let off steam, don't be surprised if people berate you or are sarcastic. If we're going to give an informed opinion or view then we'd at least like to be singing off the same hymn sheet.
 
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Perhaps some of these 'famous riders' should be wearing a gimp mask, as they are obviously getting a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain, and discomfort, surely this is not all done in the overwhelming desire to win.

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That is one of the most irrational and illogical conclusions I have ever read on here (which TBH is saying something!). Surely it is far more likely that professional riders who are in it for the money as much as anything else, and who need the wins to keep their businesses afloat with owners and sponsors and students, will be doing something in order to win than because there is some kind of deviant dressage rider cult in which you gain pleasure out of inflicting 'cruel' methods on horses. Notwithstanding the fact that if that was true it would be easier to do it in private behind closed doors where presumably one could take such things to whatever their logical conclusion is.

If you are going to try and garner support from people against certain practices in sports then try being a bit more rational and providing an evidence base from which to do it - rather than accusing nameless people of doing unmentionable things in pursuit of pleasure! You just sound hysterical.
 
Calm down everyone! This forum is a bloody nightmare.

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As I said previously the footage I have seen is the same as the rollkur/hyperflexion incident but more extreme in as much as other riders were employing a similar technique.

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No, you didn't. You said it was more extreme footage. And please don't call my comments worthless and sarcastic, I was killing time waiting for your response with a little light humour.

Out of interest, how do you get more extreme than Rollkur? Surely if a horse's head is touching its chest there's not much more extreme flexion available? What exactly did you see and where? Why can this footage not be posted online? I for one would like to see it and who was involved. And no, I do not compete in GP dressage so other than those practices that are brought to light I don't know what goes on.
 
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As I said previously the footage I have seen is the same as the rollkur/hyperflexion incident but more extreme in as much as other riders were employing a similar technique. It is very interesting to note, however, that (apart from the sarcastic worthless comment), people are now trying to guess what abusive methods may be employed. How many are there? No doubt the answer is countless. Spurs, whips, every mechanical contraption of straps, reins and pullies to force a quick fix, instead of training, lightness and skill. Perhaps some of these 'famous riders' should be wearing a gimp mask, as they are obviously getting a perverse pleasure out of inflicting pain, and discomfort, surely this is not all done in the overwhelming desire to win.

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Sorry I did not mean to come across as sarcastic but the sad fact is and I agree there are far too many cruel practices used, hence the need to know exactly what you were talking about, otherwise how can we sympathise with you or discuss things if we don't know exactly what we are talking about, when you feel so strongly and quite rightly so about something.

I think the competition world is split between horse lovers and just horse riders, when I say this I mean by those who just want to win and those that want to win on a horse they care and respect etc there animals, not rosette machines, basically its how through their eyes they perceive their own horses.

Would you rather win on horse that does not enjoy his job and goes through discomfort to get you there ...but get there, or come further down the line on a horse that is perhaps talented but not pushed the extreme but enjoys the job, I think thats where people differ.

You can't change how people view their horses....animal or a tool, you can't change how they train them at home but yes I belive in shame light, rather than lime light, the more people scream and shout about it perhaps the less people will do it.
 
If people are aware of things taking place which are blatantly wrong then why support them. I appreciate that some people don't like cruelty and do try to stop it. All this may have been said before, so what. Surely people need to keep on saying it if there is ever to be a change.
The equestrian industry does appear to have more than it's fair share of animal abusers though.
Recent news footage of horses neglected and starved are perhaps one extreme.
The number of failed racehorses discarded by owners and trainers.
Pet ponies visited only at the weekend.
Horses at livery kept in a shavings filled box for hours on end unable to get out and at least walk about.
Dressage can be and is a beautiful sport to watch, but train the horse properly and ban training methods which cause discomfort and pain.
I'm having a rant now!
Perhaps thats whats needed and less hymn singing.
 
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I Surely people need to keep on saying it if there is ever to be a change.

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The point is you're not actually saying anything!
 
Yes, we are aware and as I doubt you know each of us, individually, then who are you to damn us as participants and/or spectators? For all you know we could be Anti-Rollkur activists, on a mission to get the practice banned.

If you wish to engage us in conversation then we would like to know what you're talking about, hence my "singing off the same hymn sheet" reference.
 
Without meaning to sound sarcastic, could I just ask, do you think that for example spurs (which you did mention) are cruel? or are you more concerned about how these things are used?
 
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