Unacceptable ridden behavior on a yard... who is responsible??

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LegOn

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I'm on a livery yard that is also a riding school - which isnt huge or very busy, nice & small with good facilities.

There are a good few liveries that are kids who, in fairness to them, are very well behaved & there parents keep them in line!! But of course, there is always one, she is a teenager, bit older than the rest & despite numerous attempts from everyone (me included!) and the YO(who is also the BHS instructor on the yard) she ignores all help with her & her horse & continous to ride him just in the most worse way possible. Forcing his head his chest with every gadget known to man, flings him over massive fences, refuses to give him decent amount of feed for the work he is in cause she is convinced its what is making him crazy, he is obviously in pain & YO has had a physio check him over & she was given advice on stretches & riding which were all ignored & she continues to ride him in a very forceful way - every session ends in a row & she throws him back in his stable pumping sweat & distressed & goes home.

The other week, he attempted to avoid her forceful riding & went to go up & was desperately trying to get away from her & she proceeded to smack him around the head with her crop & reins!! While on him - how he didnt throw her off is beyond me & another rider in the arena tried to calm her down & give her advice, again ignored & she threw him in his stable & stormed off. There was some of the other kids in the arena who had witnessed this & were upset for her horse so went in & comforted him, groomed him down & gave him some carrots - like how sweet! but just goes to show the horse is a pet, just being treated very badly.

So my question is this - who is responsible for stepping in with this kinda behaviour?? Is it acceptable for a yard to let this go on? Her parents dont seem interested - they are part of the problem cause they put more pressure on her to jump him, bigger aswell! The parents of the other yard kids are upset their kids had to witness this & are distressed by it.
 
At the end of the day this is the YO's responsibility and not something other liveries should get involved with, however unpleasant it may be to watch. If the YO doesn't like it, they should give the girl/her parents their notice and ask them to leave, with quite clear reasons as to why.
 
I would consider videoing her and getting her to watch how ugly her riding style is, passing it onto her parents too, with perhaps some mutters about sending this to the RSPCA (who won't do anything, but they might not know that).

IMO, while not responsible for her riding or her behaviour towards the horse, the YO needs to tear a strip off her, a loud rollocking in front of others and a threat to throw her off the yard if she doesn't start treating the horse well may help?
 
I'd quite like to meet this girl down a dark alleyway.

I'd agree that it's the YO's responsibility. The sad thing is that if she is asked to leave then she will only take her disgusting behaviour and poor pony elsewhere, and it will continue. Shame the YO can't ask the girl to leave but not the pony!
 
The YOer should raise it with the childs parents, but short of asking them to leave it's going to be difficult to change the behaviour and moving is not going to do anything for the horse .
Very nasty difficult situation.
 
Honey08 said:
IMO, while not responsible for her riding or her behaviour towards the horse, the YO needs to tear a strip off her, a loud rollocking in front of others and a threat to throw her off the yard if she doesn't start treating the horse well may help?
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We used to have a yard owner/riding school owner who would do that, and by god did it work! Everyone used to love her because she was so fair, but she said 'jump', you said 'how high'!!
 
The YO has kinda expressed that her hands are tied when it comes to saying something?? Is this really true though - surely she should be able to do what you are saying, make a good example of her in front of everyone & get her to sharpen up.

I think the YO has been using the softly softly approach but its just not working & now I'm beginning to feel its reflecting badly on the yard :(
 
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When a teenager started losing her rag with her pony on my yard (sawing his mouth and whacking him with her crop for refusing a fence), I marched outside and gave her a good telling off, saying I would not tolerate that kind of behaviour on the yard. But really, she was a good kid and just had a typical teenager bad temper. She has never treated him that way again since. I would also do the same thing if it were an adult maltreating their horse, as I have done in the past.

It is the yard owners responsibility to sort this behaviour out. But I have to say, if I were a livery and the YO was not stepping up to the mark I would go and tell them. I would also find it impossible not to give the girl a tongue lashing right there and then if I was witness to the behaviour.
 
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This is where you need someone who is completely socially inept to turn up and tell her parents just how long it is likely to be until she puts herself in the hospital, and/or ruins the horse and they have to replace it. As bluntly and rudely as possible. So ideally not someone who is connected to the yard at all, but who has enough knowledge and reputation to be listened to. And who is very blunt. And perhaps a bit rude. And blunt.

At the end of the day, regarding riding, she herself needs to be told then and there by whoever is instructing her, no one else is likely to be listened to. If she won't listen to the instructor, then she should be told to leave the lesson at once. If she is riding without an instructor, well she will come off eventually. Leave her to it, it's her neck after all.

That said, I wouldn't be rewarding a horse that had gone up with carrots and fussing. That just compounds the problem and risks encouraging the poor animal to act badly.
 
LegOn said:
The YO has kinda expressed that her hands are tied when it comes to saying something?? Is this really true though - surely she should be able to do what you are saying, make a good example of her in front of everything & get her to sharpen up.

I think the YO has been using the softly softly approach but its just not working & now I'm beginning to feel its reflecting badly on the yard :(
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YO hands are not tied at all. By continuing to take money and not say anything they are condoning this behaviour. In their shoes I would have no hesitation in telling the parents a few hard truths and if no improvement I would show them the door.
 
nikicb said:
At the end of the day this is the YO's responsibility and not something other liveries should get involved with, however unpleasant it may be to watch. If the YO doesn't like it, they should give the girl/her parents their notice and ask them to leave, with quite clear reasons as to why.
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I agree completely.
 
Honey08 said:
I would consider videoing her and getting her to watch how ugly her riding style is, passing it onto her parents too, with perhaps some mutters about sending this to the RSPCA (who won't do anything, but they might not know that).

IMO, while not responsible for her riding or her behaviour towards the horse, the YO needs to tear a strip off her, a loud rollocking in front of others and a threat to throw her off the yard if she doesn't start treating the horse well may help?
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You need permission to video or photograph others, especially minors.
 
Arizahn said:
That said, I wouldn't be rewarding a horse that had gone up with carrots and fussing. That just compounds the problem and risks encouraging the poor animal to act badly.
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The horse will not associate the carrots with its previous (defensive) behaviour. The carrots were given well after the event.
 
Arizahn said:
This is where you need someone who is completely socially inept to turn up and tell her parents just how long it is likely to be until she puts herself in the hospital, and/or ruins the horse and they have to replace it. As bluntly and rudely as possible. So ideally not someone who is connected to the yard at all, but who has enough knowledge and reputation to be listened to. And who is very blunt. And perhaps a bit rude. And blunt.

At the end of the day, regarding riding, she herself needs to be told then and there by whoever is instructing her, no one else is likely to be listened to. If she won't listen to the instructor, then she should be told to leave the lesson at once. If she is riding without an instructor, well she will come off eventually. Leave her to it, it's her neck after all.

That said, I wouldn't be rewarding a horse that had gone up with carrots and fussing. That just compounds the problem and risks encouraging the poor animal to act badly.
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I have asked around & got talking to another YO who is known for being just that - blunt & rude & she chucked her off her yard years ago when she had a completely different horse for doing the same thing! So its not the first instance of this & she obviously hasnt learned from that either. She has come off the horse a good few times but of course, its only the horse that suffers really :(

I know what you mean about rewarding the horse but he wasnt rearing fully, just threatening to go up and she proceed to smack the hell out of him. The kids were being kids, after they saw she was gone - there was a horse in a ball of sweat in a stable & they just felt bad, they meant well :)
 
ihatework said:
YO hands are not tied at all. By continuing to take money and not say anything they are condoning this behaviour. In their shoes I would have no hesitation in telling the parents a few hard truths and if no improvement I would show them the door.
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Yeah I have to say, I feel the same. I feel its a bit of a cop out really. All the other approaches have failed - YO has tried her best to help her, now its time for the some tough love.
 
The YO needs to grow some b@lls & speak firmly to the teenager. This cannot be tolerated. The teenager & parents should be told in no uncertain terms that their abuse of the horse must end. Public shaming of the teenager & parents should be a last resort if nothing else works.
 
ihatework said:
YO hands are not tied at all. By continuing to take money and not say anything they are condoning this behaviour. In their shoes I would have no hesitation in telling the parents a few hard truths and if no improvement I would show them the door.
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exactly

ofcourse, its the YO's responsibility, its her business!

what i suspect you mean is, she doesnt really want to get involved or be 'the bad guy'- well tough, frankly.

if she's not willing to give this girl and her parents a talking to about her 'horsemanship' on the yard and a warning if it continues she will be out on her ear - then she should employ a Yard manager to do this sort of thing as dealing with liveries and issues that come up comes with the job.
 
Sounds a bit like YO is a bit of a wimp. I would put in writing how upset you all are to constantly witness this behaviour, and are not over the moon to be on a yard where this kind of behaviour is tolerated, all sign it and pass it onto the YO, see if you can jolt her into doing something if she realises all her other clients are fed up.
 
Sometimes a softly softly approach does work, and the YO has tried to help by having a physio out to the horse and ensuring the girl was educated in doing some exercises with the horse.


However, as this hasn't worked, I'm afraid, that it would be an instance when I'd get hold of the horse's bridle and order the girl off the horse. Showing her that abuse will not be tolerated might shock her enough to a) realise this isn't the way to treat animals and b) that she cannot take it for granted that wherever she goes, everyone will be prepared to turn a blind eye.

I hate confrontation but I hate bullies even more.
 
Yard owner needs to grow a set.
Me personally i couldnt be on a yard where horses are abused so if nothing was done i'd seriously leave and tell YO the reason why.
 
LegOn said:
I have asked around & got talking to another YO who is known for being just that - blunt & rude & she chucked her off her yard years ago when she had a completely different horse for doing the same thing! So its not the first instance of this & she obviously hasnt learned from that either. She has come off the horse a good few times but of course, its only the horse that suffers really :(

I know what you mean about rewarding the horse but he wasnt rearing fully, just threatening to go up and she proceed to smack the hell out of him. The kids were being kids, after they saw she was gone - there was a horse in a ball of sweat in a stable & they just felt bad, they meant well :)
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Hmm. Maybe someone could ask her why she bothers riding if it scares her so much? As it sounds like she is bullying the horse to avoid ever risking being disobeyed - which never works of course, just creates problems where none existed - iyswim. Certainly doesn't sound as if she is enjoying herself. You say the parents want her jumping higher - is it a living vicariously through offspring situation?

Still don't agree with feeding another person's horse. It may not associate it as a reward, we can't be sure either way, but how many threads do we have about people feeding other people's horses? Either this is bad or it is not - to my mind, it is bad. The horse may learn bad habits, or become ill. A fuss is one thing, feeding treats another.
 
I guess the YO may think that its better that the pony is there so she can gently try to make things a little better than chuck the pony off the yard and things getting worse elsewhere but I do think they are being a little too gentle. A word with the parents has to be the next step (YO not you)
 
dogatemysalad said:
Sometimes a softly softly approach does work, and the YO has tried to help by having a physio out to the horse and ensuring the girl was educated in doing some exercises with the horse.


However, as this hasn't worked, I'm afraid, that it would be an instance when I'd get hold of the horse's bridle and order the girl off the horse. Showing her that abuse will not be tolerated might shock her enough to a) realise this isn't the way to treat animals and b) that she cannot take it for granted that wherever she goes, everyone will be prepared to turn a blind eye.

I hate confrontation but I hate bullies even more.
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And as soon as you did that, the parents would be accusing you of assault/intimidation/etc. You can't hope to win by giving your enemy ammunition. An instructor could order her out of a lesson, a judge send her out of the ring, and a welfare inspector presumably could issue advice/a warning. Other than that, it is her horse and all we can do is disapprove and hope it is sold on before she ruins it.

<I am actually hoping something a bit harsher, but suspect it is against t&cs...>
 
Arizahn said:
And as soon as you did that, the parents would be accusing you of assault/intimidation/etc. You can't hope to win by giving your enemy ammunition. An instructor could order her out of a lesson, a judge send her out of the ring, and a welfare inspector presumably could issue advice/a warning. Other than that, it is her horse and all we can do is disapprove and hope it is sold on before she ruins it.

<I am actually hoping something a bit harsher, but suspect it is against t&cs...>
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Not at all. I have dealt with people like her before. All done very calmly but with a not inflammatory but no nonsense approach. No assault or intimidation needed.

You don't need to be a welfare inspector, RI or judge, just a decent human being.
 
dogatemysalad said:
Not at all. I have dealt with people like her before. All done very calmly but with a not inflammatory but no nonsense approach. No assault or intimidation needed.

You don't need to be a welfare inspector, RI or judge, just a decent human being.
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You also need to be very lucky, as yes, there are people who would turn that back on you, and her parents sound the type, tbh. Indeed, just saying the wrong thing can get you into bother, as the other party only has to feel threatened - no actual threat needs to occur, if they say they felt threatened by you, then that is that, and you would sadly be the one in trouble :(

World is insane, imo.
 
I appreciate what you are saying Arizahn, but I do step in where others fear to tread. and somehow, everytime over the years, the wrong doers have apologised for their behaviour.

Turning a blind eye causes me more grief than doing something.
 
I agree YO needs to man up and give this girl a public rollicking since the softly softly educating approach has not worked. Maybe try talking to the parents first, I wouldn't care about losing their custom if they don't want to do anything about it personally. I am sure if she has been kicked off a yard before they will start to believe their little princess might be doing something wrong.

Bless the kids for going to see the horse after, that made me quite sad :-(

Riding instructor having a word would be a good idea too.
 
Everyone has the right to confront bad behaviour and should do so if they feel the need.
However you do need to exercise caution with minors so I would be talking to the parents and keeping the interaction with the child brief.
 
This poor horse is clearly being abused.
The yard owner is responsible for all welfare issues at the yard.
As the yard owner is not doing anything positive about it or has failed to prevent further instances of this abusive behaviour to the horse then you should contact the Welfare Department of the British Horse Society and discuss the situation with them.
They will then advise you how they can assist in preventing any further abuse of this horse.
Contact details for the BHS Welfare Department are: 02476 840517 or email welfare@bhs.org.uk.
For out-of-hours emergencies call 02476 840570
 
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