UNBELIEVEABLE. Horse sold whilst on Loan

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Andalusianlover

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Can anyone help please?

A friend of mine has had her mare sold whilst she was out on loan. The horse has since been sold on again.

My friend has contacted the police but they've refused to help her saying its a civil matter (breach of contract).

Can anyone give me any advice to pass on to my friend.

She's distraught believing she has lost her mare forever!
 
speak to MHOL missing horses on loan on here, also another very helpful person is Cuffey and she might have some help for you. Also if you post this in the Stolen section with more details on the mare and areas people might be able to help you. Good luck.
 
The loanee who sold the horse is from Warminster. She sold the horse to a lady in Yeovil who then sold the horse on to someone in Trowbridge, that's all the details I have on the horses movements.

The horse is a 15hh MW black cob mare with a white stripe/blaze on her face, 5/6 years old. The horse has a problem with one of her front feet (pedal bone) and originally had bar shoes on but the loanee neglected to inform the horses first buyer about this.

Its pants isnt it. Cant believe the police wont help!
 
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This is Lady Darco, who you asked about yesterday? I will keep an eye as i'm Somerset although not very nr Yeovil. Have you tried contacting local riding clubs and livery yards in the area etc?
She is already on MHOL :)

Also i don't understand why the police don't get involved it is technically theft!

Hope she is found soon :)
 
Tell your friend to go back to the police and ask them if they would deal with an Avis rental car sold while out on hire or a house squatters were living in the same way. Insist on a crime number and that the horse has been stolen, as there was no agreement that the mare's ownership changed and there has therefore been a theft committed. (make sure this is not in any doubt at all first - you need a copy of a loan agreement if you have one). If necessary, tell them that she requires a crime number in order to claim for the theft on her insurance.

It is absolutely outrageous that the Police refuse to act on a clear case of theft as they do when a horse is involved. Tell her to go and make a fuss until they do, and if they don't go straight to her MP and her local Councillor for them to take the matter up. If this person is not at least visited by the police then they will think that they can do it again.
 
This is why i would never let my horses leave my yard , i have sharers but horse's stay here period.!

hope you get horse back. police are useless. I would get onto MHOL and NED contact a few yards in those areas do some snooping .
 
cptrayes said:
Tell your friend to go back to the police and ask them if they would deal with an Avis rental car sold while out on hire or a house squatters were living in the same way. Insist on a crime number and that the horse has been stolen, as there was no agreement that the mare's ownership changed and there has therefore been a theft committed. (make sure this is not in any doubt at all first - you need a copy of a loan agreement if you have one). If necessary, tell them that she requires a crime number in order to claim for the theft on her insurance.

It is absolutely outrageous that the Police refuse to act on a clear case of theft as they do when a horse is involved. Tell her to go and make a fuss until they do, and if they don't go straight to her MP and her local Councillor for them to take the matter up. If this person is not at least visited by the police then they will think that they can do it again.
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Better still contact the "daily mail" and Crime stoppers and other media such as the news. If the police refuse to help and wont give crime number, you need to go above their heads and write/phone their head office and complain.Tell the police you are going to contact the papers/news etc.
 
I've got a friend who not having got a bid on a youngster at Tatts sales, started chatting to someone and the outcome was, they would take the youngster on loan and race it themselves. It now transpires that he sold the youngster a few weeks later and that subsequently the horse was sold on again.

The owners know exactly where the horse is and the trainer whose yard it is in is now aware of this plus the new owners who bought it in good faith. The Police have got involved and are calling in the original man who took the youngster on lease for an interview, and the racing authorities have put a block on the horse being unable to run until this is sorted out. My friend wants to go visit her filly but the Police have advised against this and the trainer says he will not let her into the yard either.

I received an email from my friend last night saying the Police were a joke and so were the Racing Authorities, as although she bred it and it is still registered under her name with Weatherbys, she has no proof that she still actually owns it. She was stupid in the fact that she didn't get any contract drawn up, but said that the man was someone who was best friends with one of her racing people and she could trust him. The man even admits that he only had the horse on loan and admits he sold it on.

I don't know what the latest is, but she's supposedly getting back to me today some time to fill me in so if there is anything which may be helpful to you, I will let you know.
 
Contact Horsewatch and they can inform there local coordinators who can keep a look out and pass on the info.
 
ladydarco.jpg
 
Its back to the old points again. There is NO legal documentation that is available to say whom a horse is legal property of. I was under the misguided impression that my horses passport was effectively "title" but having followed the "stolen" threads and read a number of posts (with our legal readers adding their pennies worth and experience")... its means absolutely nothing. Neither do receipts/bills/photos as they only "prove" ownership "at that time". It does, however, seem that not ALL police forces shrug their shoulders and say its a civil matter, there are some who have pursued it - which also makes the law seem somewhat idiotic on this point.

If you look at the stolen thread for Bliss, you will see that a new poster came on board to say "not stolen" etc etc. And as I said, presumably the new owner.
 
Wiltshire horsewatch have a facebook page....which may be of help to you
John Bordiss is a horseowner himself & very switched on ...perhaps you could contact him.

Details below:
Wiltshire Horsewatch promotes the sharing of information within our equine community!Provides crime prevention advice and services.... PCSO John BordissWiltshire Police Rural Crime Team
Phone 101 or Mobile 07968942116 Email - john.bordiss@wiltshire.pnn.police.uk
Website http://www.wiltshire.police.uk

Good luck & i hope you get this sorted.xx
 
This sort of situation really troubles me. Next year we will have to loan our sons outgrown pony what is the best way to protect him. I am thinking that I will keep him here and they can loan from here.
 
maree t said:
This sort of situation really troubles me. Next year we will have to loan our sons outgrown pony what is the best way to protect him. I am thinking that I will keep him here and they can loan from here.
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Get a legal contract and put on the loan agreement that the pony MUST stay/ be kept at current yard.Do not let them move pony.At least that way you will be able to keep an eye.
 
My loan agreement said this, amongst a lot of other stuff:

Ownership

C belongs to CPTrayes. Possession of his passport does not indicate ownership of the horse. He will continue to belong to CPTrayes until such time as an explicit written statement is provided of a change of ownership.

......following conditions ....

The Loaner making a legally binding commitment never to sell or loan C. In the event that she can no longer care for him he must be offered back to the current owner without charge, or ownership passed to another party with the express approval of the current owner.

During the loan period, C may be removed by the owner without notice at any time that his health or happiness is in doubt. The measures for this will be as listed above. If there is any doubt on the part of the loanee, it is in everyone's interests if concerns are discussed as early as possible.

Keep

C will be kept at:

Address


If the loanee wishes to move him to another stable yard the permission and approval of the owner must be sought first.


If I had not been absolutely sure of the loanees I would also have said the following:

If at any time C's is not in the care of the loaner at a yard approved by the owner, or his death proved by the loaner in the absence of the horse, the owner will be paid the sum of £xyz by the loanee.

With £xyz being more than the horse could sell for, of course. I think that the last bit would make it a civil issue, not a criminal one, but the chances of anyone selling the horse on when you have that in the contract would surely be pretty small!?
 
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maree t said:
This sort of situation really troubles me. Next year we will have to loan our sons outgrown pony what is the best way to protect him. I am thinking that I will keep him here and they can loan from here.
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Maree we did exactly that for years.
Make sure loanee has eg PC membership for insurance.
One pony used to ''prop the gate'' and sulk if he didnt get to go to PC so another jockey had to be found and the first time he went back to PC he walked down the field ''10ft tall'' head up and Arab tail in the air.
You have full control and can come to some arrangement whereby they help with expenses.
 
ring up the local papers and get them do a story it would then bring it to attention pf local people
there is a horse dealer that is in the warminster/frome area that gets horses on loan then sells them (been through court) and uses people to pretend to be private individuals.
contact wiltshire horse watch
 
Sadly I am not sure if a contract like the one above would actually stand up? can a legal bod advise? pretty sure that was the advise before hand?
 
equinim
The Lady Darco poster is on Wiltshire Horsewatch FB page since 14th Sept

I can only think of one dealer in that area, could you PM me a name please so I know I have the right one as she does have a sign in on here.
Thanks
 
Cuffey said:
equinim
The Lady Darco poster is on Wiltshire Horsewatch FB page since 14th Sept

I can only think of one dealer in that area, could you PM me a name please so I know I have the right one as she does have a sign in on here.
Thanks
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Have sent you the dealers name cuffey by email
 
It is a crimminal matter.
The definition of the theft act is " A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"
Nag the police, hope you find the horse and get her back!
 
Cuffey said:
equinim
The Lady Darco poster is on Wiltshire Horsewatch FB page since 14th Sept

I can only think of one dealer in that area, could you PM me a name please so I know I have the right one as she does have a sign in on here.
Thanks
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Ditto I can only think of one dealer as well who has had previous for this - can you please PM me the name as well.
 
sharon1959 said:
Get a legal contract and put on the loan agreement that the pony MUST stay/ be kept at current yard.Do not let them move pony.At least that way you will be able to keep an eye.
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I can completely understand why people won't let horses off the yard because of these people doing these things, however they do make it very difficult for us genuine people who are looking to loan, we are currently trying to loan a pony for 2 kids and I'm just waiting on this cropping up, as before I don't blame people for not wanting to let ponies out of their sight, but if there is something that can be put in place I would be more than happy.
The people we have spoke to I have told them about NEDonline etc and to mark them on there as on loan, make sure they are microchipped etc so hopefully I'm not mistaken for one of these people.
 
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