Unbelieveable! Riding on roads!

lionman said:
I would rather pass riders without Hi Viz that thank me for slowing down, rather than the vizzed up that dont acknowledge me. It is something that drives me mad when riders dont thank drivers, viz does not mean that manners have to be left at home. I dont personally deck myself out in it, but I dont ride on busy roads, thank god. I am of an age where I feel that I can please myself. I do however wear a hat. Now.:cool:
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Agree with this, and the only reason I wear a hat is because I don't want my daughter or the girls to ever think it is ok to ride without one, I hate them and would never wear one other than for that - that would be my choice and nobody else's business! I do wear hi viz, again as an example.
 
I personally think its nuts to not wear at the very least a helmet. I'd never dream of it, imagine falling off from a height onto a tarmac road - that's mess your head up big time! I strongly believe everyone should wear a helmet whenever riding. Its not just personal choice IMO as it'll be your poor parents / partners / friends who'll end up spoon feeding you when you smash your head.
 
lhotse said:
At the end of the day, if someone comes round a bend on a country lane too fast, it's unlikely to matter if there is hi-viz or not. There needs to be a campaign to educate drivers, but alas many drivers will still not slow down, hi-vis or not, as there seem to be a breed of riders these days who find it impossible to even acknowledge that the car is there. I passed a group the other day, all with hi-vis, not a single smile or nod to my careful driving. So maybe there needs to be a campaign to teach a few manners as well!!!
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Having just returned from a very wet riding & road safety exam where all my candidates were decked out like xmas trees in their hiviz, as were all the parents who acted as stewards for the road route, I can honestly say that i cannot understand why anyone wouldn't take as many safety precautions on the road (or indeed riding off road) that they can - personal choice or not. It's about protecting yourself, your horse, and other road users.

And yes, part of the training is indeed to educate people about thanking considerate driving from other road users and teaching them that one inconsiderate rider may be the downfall of the next rider that that driver comes across.

I want all the people I train to pass their exam (my 100% pass rate is still intact as at today's date :o) but mostly I want them to finish the training with the skills and knowledge to keep them as safe as possible for as long as they continue to ride on the roads, and that includes wearing a proper hat and as much hiviz as they and their horse can carry :D whatever the weather, time of day, time of year ...

And to the poster who doesn't think it's necessary to hiviz your horse in case you part company - spare a thought for your horse and the poor b****r who potentially may hit it because they didn't see it in time :(
 
DragonSlayer said:
14 years and under must wear a hat.

Not aware of any new legislation....

Motorbike helmets are the ones affected by a turban I believe.
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No it is only under 14s who must by law wear a hat (unless they wear a turban) - all others "should follow" the guidelines, but there's nothing to say they must. Horsemart are not only wrong about the legislation, but their article would suggest that all riders should wear a hat at all times :rolleyes:
 
lhotse said:
Again, where have I said that I disagree with hi-viz? I wear it myself, and my horse wears spats.
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Never said you did.

I am saying that I do not understand the "personal choice" argument when it is proven fact that wearing hiviz makes you safer on the road, and makes it safer for other road users as well :confused:

Why wouldn't "one" want to be safer?

Oh, and I was answering your point about teaching manners to riders ...
 
I wear hi viz on me and sometimes on my horse, but it is not for my safety but my horses. Couldn't give a crap about myself to be honest, but my horses I do. When I ride on roads it is my choice to do so, not the horse. If the horse got mowed down because the driver failed to see it I would blame myself, especially if the lack of hi viz meant that we were not that visible. So in theory I do it for them.
Do I wear a hat, yes always when riding. Why because I want to protect my head. Fair enough if was unlucky enough to get killed then at least no one could say I was not wearing a hat!
 
I think all drivers should be keeping an eye out... but equally riders should make drivers jobs as easy as possible! As a driver I would hate to hit a horse (obviously!) because I didn't spot it quickly enough and think it is only courtesy to help eachother out. I would love to see it may law that all road users so walkers and cylists to have to wear a certain amount of hi vis clothing regardless of the time of day or weather.

I do ensure when I am riding out in the early mornings (so a bit dark) Frank always has an assortment on too in case we get separated.
 
Rowreach said:
I can honestly say that i cannot understand why anyone wouldn't take as many safety precautions on the road (or indeed riding off road) that they can - personal choice or not. It's about protecting yourself, your horse, and other road users.
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Let me assure everyone, you will never, NEVER forget the sound of a car hitting your horse :(

In my case the driver was completely in the wrong and I had done everything right (including hat/hi viz) but I know if I hadn't I would never forgive myself for it.
 
I have found this on youtube. Sadly, it would seem that the majority of accidents occur because of negligent driving, regardless of the amount of hi-vis being worn. Doesn't matter how much you glow if the driver is texting on their mobile, changing the cd, putting on makeup, speeding, or just being totally anti horse. I agree that wearing hi-viz will allow you to be seen earlier, but in my opinion, if the driver is paying the proper attention that they should when they get behind the wheel of their car, then they should be driving in a manner to be able to avoid an accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TguLKMJjso

That is why I do find it rather off that riders who don't wear hi-vis, as is their choice, are being labelled as negligent or stupid.

As I have said before, I do wear it, but I don't frown upon those who don't either. The only way to reduce the number of accidents is to educate drivers, but sadly there seem to be so many on the roads these days who think that only they are important, and that anyone else using the roads is a hinderence to their onward passage. This included not only horses, but cyclists, mopeds, walkers, and anyone else not driving as fast as can be.
 
lhotse said:
I have found this on youtube. Sadly, it would seem that the majority of accidents occur because of negligent driving, regardless of the amount of hi-vis being worn. Doesn't matter how much you glow if the driver is texting on their mobile, changing the cd, putting on makeup, speeding, or just being totally anti horse. I agree that wearing hi-viz will allow you to be seen earlier, but in my opinion, if the driver is paying the proper attention that they should when they get behind the wheel of their car, then they should be driving in a manner to be able to avoid an accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TguLKMJjso

That is why I do find it rather off that riders who don't wear hi-vis, as is their choice, are being labelled as negligent or stupid.

As I have said before, I do wear it, but I don't frown upon those who don't either. The only way to reduce the number of accidents is to educate drivers, but sadly there seem to be so many on the roads these days who think that only they are important, and that anyone else using the roads is a hinderence to their onward passage. This included not only horses, but cyclists, mopeds, walkers, and anyone else not driving as fast as can be.
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I'm confused about what that video is meant to show?? Is it for the rider to learn some road sense or the driver to learn some horse sense? :confused:

I have a fluorescent hat cover, vest, t-shirt, lightweight jacket & heavyweight jacket. (Covered for all weathers!)
I have hi-viz boots for the horse... keep meaning to try & find my old hi-viz rug.
I have been told that my hat bobbing above the hedge is what people spot first :)

I also always wear a hat - not only to have a hat cover! :p but also to protect my head!
 
lhotse said:
It's a video for drivers to learn some roadsense around horses. Shame it's not shown during prime time soaps.
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Totally agree - get it on the TV and lets get those drivers educated. The only downside is that some idiots will take it as an idea of fun and whereas in the past they might not have bothered about winding horses up, might suddenly think that it would be fun to drive up behind a horse, revving and using the horn.....there are some thick idiots out there!!
 
lhotse said:
It's a video for drivers to learn some roadsense around horses. Shame it's not shown during prime time soaps.
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Ah right... well it confused me.. I assumed it was for drivers to learn that but I think if I wasn't a rider I might not have viewed it as that way. I do think that it needs to show drivers how to pass riders safely. Not just what could appear to be a horse "pratting around" on the road due to having a car come up behind.
 
You only have to read the stuff posted about horses on the road on sites such as Facebook to appreciate that way too many drivers these days have absolutely no respect for the safety of horses and their riders. To these people, you could have a dayglow horse and it wouldn't make an ounce of difference. Sure, hi-vis does give a driver a few extra seconds to react, but to be honest, if they are driving with consideration and attention, then they should be ready for anything that they may meet, whether horse, walker, sheep, cyclist, or child.
A reduction in the speed limit on country lanes would be a good start. A work colleague once told me that horses should be banned from the roads because he enjoyed speeding round country lanes at 60mph on his motorbike and they got in his way. How do you change the attitude of someone like that?
 
jenki13 said:
Ah right... well it confused me.. I assumed it was for drivers to learn that but I think if I wasn't a rider I might not have viewed it as that way. I do think that it needs to show drivers how to pass riders safely. Not just what could appear to be a horse "pratting around" on the road due to having a car come up behind.
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There is a second part to it, which does show the correct way, but it's not on that clip.
 
I always wear a hat and hiviz. I do it more for my horses than myself, as they're everything to me :) A few years ago I knew someone who fell off her horse out in fields (saw some deer flying about!). He bolted off in the opposite direction to the yard, galloping across fields, jumping ditches and hedges, then straight out onto a main road and got hit by a car and lost his life. Maybe if the horse also had some hiviz on, he may have been seen by the driver (even out of the corner of his eye coming across the field, which would've been ahead of him to the left with no hedge separating the road) and given him time to brake?! Who knows hindsight is a great thing!
 
lhotse said:
There is a second part to it, which does show the correct way, but it's not on that clip.
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Oh right that makes more sense! I can't remember seeing this one on the TV or is 3 different wrong way clips put together? I can remember seeing something similar & it having the correct way clip straight after -> that was good :)

I was just worried watching it that (as it was portrayed) it would give people that believed that horses shouldn't be on the road another thing to add to their "ammo".

Oh & to your motorcyclist friend ask him what he does if its a child on the road & he has to slow down :rolleyes: - folks like that give us motorbike riders a bad name!
 
Just a selection of quotes taken from a motoring forum. The last one is interesting to read.

""Who takes any notice of the Highway Code once they've passed their test anyway? I don't slow down for horses unless there's a little kid riding it...apart from that I'd be long gone down the road if anything unfortunate were to happen. In any case if more people did come a cropper after falling off their horse on a road it might work out better for all motorists as they might be banned in the interests of health and safety.""

""Hate them still, its 2 years since i last posted in this thread, i have been on the road since then, cars and motorbikes.

In the car i slow down slightly but if conditions permit not by much. On the bike if the road is clear i'll pass very widely at the speed i would normally go on that road (eg dead straight national country road, good vis and no oncoming traffic, i'd take it wide at 60mph).

I pay road tax, therefore i have more rights than them, the roads used to be built for horses but they have been maintained and upgraded with my money not theirs so they can **** off back to the fields.""

""Has anybody also noticed how these arrogant horse riders now wear high vis vest with SLOW DOWN printed on the back .How much more ink would it take to add a PLEASE ?""
 
Surely those quotes just go to show that there are arrogant muppets driving around and posting on some sites?
We do wear Hi-Viz at all times and as a result of a rule which says that all our RC rides require Hi-Viz to be worn, many local riders now wear them at all times. One RC member was converted to wearing it at all times when riding, having seen the ride from over half a mile away, as every one was wearing Hi-Viz.
Just to add, wearing Hi-Viz does not preclude anyone from saying thank you to considerate drivers
 
Unfortunately, there are many, many more quotes along those lines! Those muppets might be driving along a road near you some time soon. If you ask them to slow down, you could be me with a 2 finger salute or worse. I thank everyone, regardless of whether they slow down, in the hope that the next horse they meet might get a bit more respect.
Would you believe that I was given an evil stare the other day for turning right, into the stableyard. In my car. It would seem that even though I wasn't on my horse, how dare I delay their onward journey by daring to stop to turn. You just can't win with some people.
 
I do agree that there is some horrendous driving out there! There are people who seem to be under the impression that they and only they should be on the road (that includes the insane woman I saw in the outside lane of the M62 last week, texting and weaving into the middle lane! :eek: ). They also fail to understand that vehicle excise duty does not pay for roads, council tax does that. We are pretty fortunate in that 80% of drivers are local and aware of hazards and how to negotiate horses, of the other 20% !5% try and actively avoid causing us problems. The remaining 5% wouldn't give way for any one or any thing!
I still think it is in every riders (and their horses) best interests to wear Hi-Viz, it gives people more chance to see you and also shows that you are taking your own safety seriously.
 
Rowreach said:
Never said you did.

I am saying that I do not understand the "personal choice" argument when it is proven fact that wearing hiviz makes you safer on the road, and makes it safer for other road users as well :confused:

Why wouldn't "one" want to be safer?

Oh, and I was answering your point about teaching manners to riders ...
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If it is a choice, and not law, then you must respect that some people will exercise that choice and if you have a problem with that, then you should campaign for the law to be changed. rather than berating those who have exercised the choice the law allows them.

I too never ride without hi viz even tho I do little roadwork, since if I get dumped in a ditch or on the moor I would like to be spotted by the whirlybird searching for me. But to take a strident attitude to the conduct of others leaves a nasty taste in my mouth; additionally the reason horses are killed and riders injured on the road is in the vast majority of cases because cars are driven way too fast to stop when they come around a corner and encounter anything, whether it is a deer, a cyclist or a horse.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I may disagree strongly with people choosing not to gain possible extra seconds of visibility by not wearing hi viz, but I will fight to the death for the right of people to exercise what legal rights and choices they have left in this country....(at the same time as trying to persuade them).
 
Hahaha the old road tax thing does make me laugh.. Road tax was abolished in the 1950's it's true name is vehicle excise duty for vehicles!!

Drivers make me laugh it's not even like we want to be on the roads but farmers won't allow us in fields any more than the drivers would allow us to ride round their gardens... Cyclists and horse riders need to get together as one to educate the faster road user
 
Several years ago I was riding back to the yard with a hi viz coat and rug, perfect weather etc etc and still got hit by a van whose driver 'didn't see me'. It was a nice straight road, we were walking and he wasn't speeding.
I always wear a hat but hardly ever hi-viz now. If its a gloomy day i'll put a hi viz vest on but as I have hardly any road work to do or only hack out once a week I don't bother.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
If it is a choice, and not law, then you must respect that some people will exercise that choice and if you have a problem with that, then you should campaign for the law to be changed. rather than berating those who have exercised the choice the law allows them.

I too never ride without hi viz even tho I do little roadwork, since if I get dumped in a ditch or on the moor I would like to be spotted by the whirlybird searching for me. But to take a strident attitude to the conduct of others leaves a nasty taste in my mouth; additionally the reason horses are killed and riders injured on the road is in the vast majority of cases because cars are driven way too fast to stop when they come around a corner and encounter anything, whether it is a deer, a cyclist or a horse.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I may disagree strongly with people choosing not to gain possible extra seconds of visibility by not wearing hi viz, but I will fight to the death for the right of people to exercise what legal rights and choices they have left in this country....(at the same time as trying to persuade them).
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lol I'm not berating anybody:). I am expressing MY opinion, which as usual on this forum seems not to be allowed by people who disagree with ME :rolleyes:

Nowhere did I say that it should be compulsory to wear hiviz. Nor did I say that people who don't use it are stupid.

It is your choice whether or not you wear hiviz when you ride on the road. My question is, put very simply, why would anyone choose not to when by wearing it they will be potentially safer, as will their horse and the other people using the road, not all of whom are stupid, inconsiderate, inattentive drivers who think horses should be used for target practice?

Perhaps instead of putting words into my mouth, you and lhotse could answer me that (and yes I have realised that both of you do use hiviz but that is not my point).
 
Rowreach said:
lol I'm not berating anybody:). I am expressing MY opinion, which as usual on this forum seems not to be allowed by people who disagree with ME :rolleyes:

Nowhere did I say that it should be compulsory to wear hiviz. Nor did I say that people who don't use it are stupid.

It is your choice whether or not you wear hiviz when you ride on the road. My question is, put very simply, why would anyone choose not to when by wearing it they will be potentially safer, as will their horse and the other people using the road, not all of whom are stupid, inconsiderate, inattentive drivers who think horses should be used for target practice?

Perhaps instead of putting words into my mouth, you and lhotse could answer me that (and yes I have realised that both of you do use hiviz but that is not my point).
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Fair enough, we obviously read into it a more dismissive/condemnatory attitude than was in fact the case, apologies.

I guess the point is that just because personally dont understand why someone wouldnt choose to take all possible precautions, then as long as it is legal to do so, it may be kind of their business and their decision, whether we understand it or not. They dont have a duty to make it 'understandable' to us, I guess is what I mean.

I also do think that it is an excuse that both too fast drivers and insurance companies hide behind. ie when noone wore hi viz, drivers were expected to look out for riders. Now most do, they dont bother and use the excuse that the rider had no hi viz on when they hit them.

So maybe the answer is some riders take a stance of - unless pedestrians and cyclists have to wear hi viz, we're not (unlit pedestrians at night being the worst in terms of not being visible). Some dont want a situation where you cant go for a ride if you have forgotten your hi viz. The other issue is, is the rule on-road, off road, we live up a track which farm vehicles use but is private, does that count etc etc.

The issue is more, that drivers dont want riders on the roads, local authorities are notorously poor at making off road provision and in England/Wales at least, landowners dont want the riders on their land off the roads either (a lot of which is to do with worries about liability as it is about gerrof my land). In Scotland we have it better since horseriders have the same rights of access as walkers/cyclists. But then there is a much lower population/acreage proportion and more room for everyone to move around.
 
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