Understanding dressage scores - help please

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Marigold4

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I recently got some marks back from an online dressage competition. The overall marks awarded were 159.5 but then there was another number "marks to count" was 153. Not sure what that means? We didn't get any penalties.

I got comments that I should get my horse to be softer over his back. What does that mean and how do I achieve that? He was in a very relaxed frame, taking the bit down most of the time.
 
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I've no idea on the marking - can you take a photo of the sheet?

Over the back usually means moving forward into a soft contact so it sounds like the judge is seeing some tension. One of the huge advantages of my regular e-rider entries is i can watch back with the score sheet. We used to get that comment a lot for trot and i used to think it wasnt that bad - now we rarely get it and actually I can look back at the older tests and see the trot work looks a lot choppier
 
It usually means marks after any penalties have been removed. So your first score was how your test was scored, and then they deducted some points for penalties - Was there anything marked on your sheet for error of course? it's usually 2 points for first EOC and 4 for the second EOC, did you make a couple of mistakes? Or sometimes it can be incorrect tack or something like use of voice or entering the arena late, unaffiliated they sometimes will deduct points rather than eliminate.

Edited as *doh* just read you didn't get any penalties - that's odd then!
 
I wonder if it is a scoring error and they have missed out one of the x2 coefficient marks in the final scoring and written your raw total down by mistake when calculating? I'd add up all your scores yourself and work out the x2 scores and see what you get!
 
KikiDee said:
I wonder if it is a scoring error and they have missed out one of the x2 coefficient marks in the final scoring and written your raw total down by mistake when calculating? I'd add up all your scores yourself and work out the x2 scores and see what you get!
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You are right - it's a scoring error. I've contacted them and they've corrected it.
 
SEL said:
I've no idea on the marking - can you take a photo of the sheet?

Over the back usually means moving forward into a soft contact so it sounds like the judge is seeing some tension. One of the huge advantages of my regular e-rider entries is i can watch back with the score sheet. We used to get that comment a lot for trot and i used to think it wasnt that bad - now we rarely get it and actually I can look back at the older tests and see the trot work looks a lot choppier
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It's difficult to know as we also get comments on his lovely paces. He is a tense horse though and it's difficult to achieve a consistent contact with him. I thought this last test was much more relaxed so was hoping to see this reflected. Hey ho.
 
Marigold4 said:
It's difficult to know as we also get comments on his lovely paces. He is a tense horse though and it's difficult to achieve a consistent contact with him. I thought this last test was much more relaxed so was hoping to see this reflected. Hey ho.
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I don't compete any more but when I did, it did feel like "could be more supple" and "could be more over the back" were standard phrases that get put on pretty much every sheet.
To be fair....unless you are scoring 10's all the way down a GP sheet then there is *always* room to improve suppleness.
If you felt it was a more relaxed test then that's a good thing. The judge doesn't know what you used to be like and that today is better. They just see that there is still some room for improvement.
Sounds like you are heading in the right direction.
 
Marigold4 said:
It's difficult to know as we also get comments on his lovely paces. He is a tense horse though and it's difficult to achieve a consistent contact with him. I thought this last test was much more relaxed so was hoping to see this reflected. Hey ho.
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I find dressage scoring equally frustrating but I guess that is the whole point of it - you're never going to get perfection so you address one thing and then the judge finds the next thing you need to work on. My horse is very hot and we always get comments on him being too tense, I got him out to a test where he was lovely and relaxed and I was super pleased with his rhythm and how soft he was, went away really happy with the test and we got our worst scores and comments he needed to be more forward into my hand :oops: I guess you just keep plugging away and striving to paint the whole picture!
 
little_critter said:
I don't compete any more but when I did, it did feel like "could be more supple" and "could be more over the back" were standard phrases that get put on pretty much every sheet.
To be fair....unless you are scoring 10's all the way down a GP sheet then there is *always* room to improve suppleness.
If you felt it was a more relaxed test then that's a good thing. The judge doesn't know what you used to be like and that today is better. They just see that there is still some room for improvement.
Sounds like you are heading in the right direction.
Click to expand...

Yes I've written a few times for judges and can say 9/10 horses get the "could be more over back" comment on their sheet!
 
Marigold4 said:
It's difficult to know as we also get comments on his lovely paces. He is a tense horse though and it's difficult to achieve a consistent contact with him. I thought this last test was much more relaxed so was hoping to see this reflected. Hey ho.
Click to expand...

Don’t forget the judges aren’t marking you in comparison to your last test , only you know he felt better but maybe there were other things you didnt do so well as the last test … good that you are feeling improvement though
 
little_critter said:
I don't compete any more but when I did, it did feel like "could be more supple" and "could be more over the back" were standard phrases that get put on pretty much every sheet.
To be fair....unless you are scoring 10's all the way down a GP sheet then there is *always* room to improve suppleness.
If you felt it was a more relaxed test then that's a good thing. The judge doesn't know what you used to be like and that today is better. They just see that there is still some room for improvement.
Sounds like you are heading in the right direction.
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Well actually they do! It was the same judge for the last test which was a bit all over the place and worse in terms of consistent contact, but we got higher marks for the previous one :D
 
little_critter said:
I don't compete any more but when I did, it did feel like "could be more supple" and "could be more over the back" were standard phrases that get put on pretty much every sheet.
To be fair....unless you are scoring 10's all the way down a GP sheet then there is *always* room to improve suppleness.
If you felt it was a more relaxed test then that's a good thing. The judge doesn't know what you used to be like and that today is better. They just see that there is still some room for improvement.
Sounds like you are heading in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Our marks are getting worse! We have done 3 prelims: 68 65 63
 
splashgirl45 said:
Don’t forget the judges aren’t marking you in comparison to your last test , only you know he felt better but maybe there were other things you didnt do so well as the last test … good that you are feeling improvement though
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It was an online test and we lost several marks for being left of the centreline. I don't usually lose marks for that. We always wobble up the centreline at the start but are pretty accurate. There were 4 up the centreline movements and each time the remark was that we missed the centreline and were off to the left. I wonder if my OH who was filming was standing off centre?
 
Marigold4 said:
It's difficult to know as we also get comments on his lovely paces. He is a tense horse though and it's difficult to achieve a consistent contact with him. I thought this last test was much more relaxed so was hoping to see this reflected. Hey ho.
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Ito quite probably was better- as you felt it, but judge obviously thought that the back could still show more relaxation-as backed up by your comment that it’s difficult to achieve a consistent contact.
 
Marigold4 said:
It was an online test and we lost several marks for being left of the centreline. I don't usually lose marks for that. We always wobble up the centreline at the start but are pretty accurate. There were 4 up the centreline movements and each time the remark was that we missed the centreline and were off to the left. I wonder if my OH who was filming was standing off centre?
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I think every judge has their own things they are quite picky about which is why it can be hard and even when you're reasonably established you will get scores up and down, you just have to take it as a positive I think that it's things you hadn't known/noticed before and can work on to win some easy marks back next time. i was writing for someone recently who was really hot on how the horses entered the arena and a lot lost scores for their entry as they didn't really start 'riding' the test until they'd got to C, I've had other judges who were more lenient on the centre line. But I found it interesting as a bystander to see with my own eyes how many marks you can throw away for things as a rider I don't think too hard about!
 
Marigold4 said:
It was an online test and we lost several marks for being left of the centreline. I don't usually lose marks for that. We always wobble up the centreline at the start but are pretty accurate. There were 4 up the centreline movements and each time the remark was that we missed the centreline and were off to the left. I wonder if my OH who was filming was standing off centre?
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Mine has learnt to make sure he aims right at A filming the centre line!

Was it Christmas Cracker? My comments were more harsh than usual - even after watching the test back.
 
KikiDee said:
I find dressage scoring equally frustrating but I guess that is the whole point of it - you're never going to get perfection so you address one thing and then the judge finds the next thing you need to work on. My horse is very hot and we always get comments on him being too tense, I got him out to a test where he was lovely and relaxed and I was super pleased with his rhythm and how soft he was, went away really happy with the test and we got our worst scores and comments he needed to be more forward into my hand :oops: I guess you just keep plugging away and striving to paint the whole picture!
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It is frustrating, isn't it? I'm going to stop participating in dressage competitions for a good while now. Maybe I can find some mojo in a year's time. I don't have my own school, so have to travel and hire to practise and for lessons. It's a lot of effort and expense. I don't enjoy the competitions one little bit. I just feel as though I should be competing not that I want to compete. I much preferred show jumping. It was fun and no one can take a clear round away from you. Dressage is NOT fun! Sadly, this horse is not cut out for jumping and I'm getting too old.
 
SEL said:
Mine has learnt to make sure he aims right at A filming the centre line!

Was it Christmas Cracker? My comments were more harsh than usual - even after watching the test back.
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No, this was a riding club one. Perhaps Xmas has put all dressage judges in a bad mood!
 
Marigold4 said:
It is frustrating, isn't it? I'm going to stop participating in dressage competitions for a good while now. Maybe I can find some mojo in a year's time. I don't have my own school, so have to travel and hire to practise and for lessons. It's a lot of effort and expense. I don't enjoy the competitions one little bit. I just feel as though I should be competing not that I want to compete. I much preferred show jumping. It was fun and no one can take a clear round away from you. Dressage is NOT fun! Sadly, this horse is not cut out for jumping and I'm getting too old.
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I have recently come to a similar conclusion, though we do jump. I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to compete because I thought I 'should', then realised I didn't actually enjoy any of it and didn't even get any real pleasure from placing as I'm just not a competitive person. I really enjoy the side of training my horses and seeing them progress and working on our own personal goals and becoming a better rider, but the only bit of competing I liked was getting nice professional photos afterwards :oops: I do like to have a goal with my riding but instead of worrying about aiming for comps I've stepped back and am concentrating on what I want to improve at home, very much enjoying weekly lessons and feedback from my trainer on how we are doing and nailing our own mini-milestones instead. I might get back out competing again in the spring but at the moment it just feels like a lot of hassle!
 
KikiDee said:
I have recently come to a similar conclusion, though we do jump. I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to compete because I thought I 'should', then realised I didn't actually enjoy any of it and didn't even get any real pleasure from placing as I'm just not a competitive person. I really enjoy the side of training my horses and seeing them progress and working on our own personal goals and becoming a better rider, but the only bit of competing I liked was getting nice professional photos afterwards :oops: I do like to have a goal with my riding but instead of worrying about aiming for comps I've stepped back and am concentrating on what I want to improve at home, very much enjoying weekly lessons and feedback from my trainer on how we are doing and nailing our own mini-milestones instead. I might get back out competing again in the spring but at the moment it just feels like a lot of hassle!
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We think alike! This too is my plan: weekly lessons and milestones. I think I need some goals otherwise I might be tempted to just give up! I'm hoping to move shortly to a place with a school so that will help enormously.
 
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