Underweight Oldie

[Azureblue]

Hi I have an underweight 28 yr old. She’s a good eater the problem is she can’t chew well because she only has 50% of her teeth. She’s not a rescue case thin but definitely too lean for a 15.2. This isn’t sudden I’ve been managing her weight for years and it has always just about worked with mashes but now she’s getting harder to keep weight on than ever before. Always in discussion with vet; regular teeth check, on hay substituter as can’t eat hay or hayledge and is even beginning to quid long grass. She’s out 24/7 on good grazing that I keep a manageable length for her teeth, she’s also on 3 Stubbs scoops of fastfibre, oil and and 3 stub scoops of E & E a day; that’s about 6/7lb of hard feed. I’m hoping spring grass will help but after that it’s another long winter. When is enough enough? Thing is she’s well and happy in herself and n good shape just too thin! I keep her rugged to stop any unnecessary weight burning to keep warm. What else can I do? I find it hard to put a healthy horse down but I feel like I’m fighting a loosing battle. Spring/summer grass won’t be a permanent fix either though she might look a bit better for a few months. Can increase hard feed again but am I just keeping her alive? She weighs 405kg on weigbridge and is a fine built breed Arab/tb - has never been stocky even when a good weight x

 

[ycbm]

When is enough enough?

Enough is enough when you feel it's enough. You have given her a long and happy life and there is no shame in giving an old thin horse who can't eat properly a dignified and peaceful end. I certainly wouldn't put her through another winter or a ragingly hot summer with dried up grass.
.

 

[meleeka]

I’d look at her mash again. There’s better feeds for weight gain. Off the top of my head Cushcare and Allen & Page Care and Gain are two. I had to take mine off Cushcare because she got too fat! Your volume doesn’t seem that much as a total hay replacer, so a trug of Fibrebeet alongside or mixed would also help. It’s also cheaper. My big old mare did really well on Soothe and Gain as a seperate feed for calories.

All that is only if you feel like it worth carrying on of course. At that age you are really only kicking a can up the road, until something comes along that gets her. When her time comes is up to you and when you feel it’s enough. She won’t care either way.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

28 is a pretty good age. But a few things spring to mind as I read your post, you might have already done them;
Cushings test, ask for TRH-Stim test rather than ACTH, it's more accurate.
Teeth, I would get a 2nd opinion
Forage, I would give her a hay replacer as part of her forage if she is quidding hay
Mash, I would give her soaked grassnuts with dried grass chaff, as the base of her bucket feed. I've kept weight on oldies with that several times, you might want to add soaked traditional sugar beet.
If you have done all those things and she is still poor, sadly it is probably time to say goodbye.

 

[slimjim86]

Mine dropped too much weight this winter (normally it's hard to get any off her), put her on Allen and page care and gain, D&H 16 plus and spillers veteran balancer plus some linseed oil and she piled the weight on again so definitely worth looking at the feed.

 

[southerncomfort]

I've always found Veteran Vitality an extremely good mash for oldies.

The Rowan Barberry mashes are also excellent for weight gain. I also used to add a little bit of Dengie senior chaff which is softer and shorter chopped than other chaff.

What I would say is that I once found myself mixing up 6 trugs a day of soft mash/soup for my old mare over one particularly awful winter.

Now I look back, that was ridiculous and I wouldn't do it again.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Mine does well on soaked grass nuts and linseed. I add a handful of chaff for abit of consistency

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Another vote for Veteran Vitality here. Fast Fibre is more for horses needing to stay slim.

 

[Britestar]

With 3 veterans, its been an expensive winter!

They get grass nuts soaked, linseed and gain balancer. All soaked to a mush.

Two get alfa chaff as well.

The one with virtually no teeth gets 2 extra feeds of spillers senior super mash.

They all get a bucket of hay replacer when they come in. Toothless gets another at bedtime. They all have ad lib hay and haylage.

Toothless is also cushingoid, but I actually stopped his prascend about a month ago and he's doing much better, as his chronic loose droppings have stopped.

I'm not under any illusion that they will be here next winter, but this regime has put a bit of weight into them at this end of the winter.

They are all out 10hrs a day and rugged to suit each horse - 2 with heavyweight full necks and an under rug if needed. The other hates rugs but accepts a 100g regular neck.

 

[Peglo]

My oldie kept a good weight with a very big bucket of soaked grass nuts and speedibeet as her hay replacer and then 2 feeds of spillers super senior mash and rowan and barberry readymash.

I’m another who would support your decision not to take her through another winter if you didn’t think it was right. Hopefully the spring grass will help.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I think you are on top of things but unfortunately, there's no cure for old age. Keep on keeping on until you feel she has had enough. Supporting the golden oldies through winter is labour intensive and expensive. My dentally challenged 29yo has managed Silvermoor Veteran haylage for the past two winters. It comes in a 20kg bag, chopped as short as HI Fi . This has been fed alongside soaked sugar beet mixed with damp Graze On, and a soft dry haylage in his net to keep him occupied. Roll on turn out time.

 

[Azureblue]

It’s a tough one. I will try changing her mash and see what she’s looking like going into winter round September time. So hard when she’s actually quite happy and perky.

 

[paddy555]

28 is a pretty good age. But a few things spring to mind as I read your post, you might have already done them;
Cushings test, ask for TRH-Stim test rather than ACTH, it's more accurate.
Teeth, I would get a 2nd opinion
Forage, I would give her a hay replacer as part of her forage if she is quidding hay
Mash, I would give her soaked grassnuts with dried grass chaff, as the base of her bucket feed. I've kept weight on oldies with that several times, you might want to add soaked traditional sugar beet.
If you have done all those things and she is still poor, sadly it is probably time to say goodbye.

I too cannot see any mention of cushings testing. If this happened to be a problem then cushings meds could well make a big difference.
If you don't want to TRH test initially you could just ask the vet for a simple ACTH test. If that is high no doubt you can get a prescription and try prascend (the cushings med) If it is borderline or low I would TRH test. Or ask for a prascend trial.
Initially you could of course TRH test.

I have a 40yo and I daren't look at how few incisors we have left.

she gets molassed sugar beet with soaked hi fibre nuts and a handful of mollichaff. The molichaff is not there for the diet but to make the soaked mixture into a crumbly one to be easier to pick up with her teeth or rather the lack of them. She has had that all winter and she is fat. She has cushings and is on prascend. Molassed sugar beet gets a lot of food down horses.

(before anyone criticises I keep her fat as we have spells as another tooth becomes loose and drops out and we have a few days of little eating, if she gets laminitis from molasses or anything else I don't really care as the pleasure of eating is more important and she will be immediately PTS.)

 

[Azureblue]

I too cannot see any mention of cushings testing. If this happened to be a problem then cushings meds could well make a big difference.
If you don't want to TRH test initially you could just ask the vet for a simple ACTH test. If that is high no doubt you can get a prescription and try prascend (the cushings med) If it is borderline or low I would TRH test. Or ask for a prascend trial.
Initially you could of course TRH test.

I have a 40yo and I daren't look at how few incisors we have left.

she gets molassed sugar beet with soaked hi fibre nuts and a handful of mollichaff. The molichaff is not there for the diet but to make the soaked mixture into a crumbly one to be easier to pick up with her teeth or rather the lack of them. She has had that all winter and she is fat. She has cushings and is on prascend. Molassed sugar beet gets a lot of food down horses.

(before anyone criticises I keep her fat as we have spells as another tooth becomes loose and drops out and we have a few days of little eating, if she gets laminitis from molasses or anything else I don't really care as the pleasure of eating is more important and she will be immediately PTS.)

She has Cushings and is on Prascend. Was diagnosed about 5 years ago. On correct dose as get her bloods done every year…

 

[Needtoretire]

This winter has been the worst for golden oldies, an utter nightmare, my vets have been putting down a lot recently. Quality of life has to trump quantity. I have found equi jewel to be useful with my old mare. Small amount of very calorie dense feed seems to be more easily eaten than big buckets of other feed. She packs up eating if over faced with bucket feed.

 

[GypsGal1718]

Could she eat a chopped haylage? If not then stick with all mashes, ff is quite lo-cal I swapping to something higher cal may help, also make sure she has a balanced diet and no deficiencies and test for Cushings,

 

[katie_southwest]

I also have on oldie, she is 26 this year. She also has cushings and cannot eat hay.
She has come through this (extremely long and draining) winter ok weight wise considering her age. Farrier and Vet etc all say she is a credit to me. However when I look back at photos of her in her prime it does make me realise how old she is.
Honestly if these are the types of winters we are going to have, Im not sure its fair to put her through many more. This winter feels like it started in about august and went on for about 7 months non stop.
I feel for you OP, lets hope for a lovely spring and summer with our oldies, and re evaluate then.

 

[Jambarissa]

I think there are plenty of extra things you can try to tinker round the edges which may be successful but everyone with an aging horse is fighting a longterm losing battle and you do need to think about when to call it a day.

For me I'd let her have the summer and reassess in September. If her weight is just 'OK' after a whole summer you know it'll go downhill over winter so it may be a good time to let her go.

 

[meleeka]

Honestly if these are the types of winters we are going to have, Im not sure it’s fair to put her through many more. This winter feels like it started in about august and went on for about 7 months non stop.
I feel for you OP, lets hope for a lovely spring and summer with our oldies, and re evaluate then.

I posted the same the other day on another thread. Mine hates the rain

 

[marmalade76]

Switch the Fast Fibre or some of the Fast Fibre for Care & Gain or Muscle & Focus. Veteran Vitality is quite high in starch compared to the other two so those are nearer to Fast Fibre so would be an easy change up. I can't comment on the keeping her alive question but no one here will judge if you decide her time has come.

ETA Care & Gain is much more suitable for Cushing's sufferers than Veteran Vitality.

 

[Pidgeon]

Hi I have an underweight 28 yr old. She’s a good eater the problem is she can’t chew well because she only has 50% of her teeth. She’s not a rescue case thin but definitely too lean for a 15.2. This isn’t sudden I’ve been managing her weight for years and it has always just about worked with mashes but now she’s getting harder to keep weight on than ever before. Always in discussion with vet; regular teeth check, on hay substituter as can’t eat hay or hayledge and is even beginning to quid long grass. She’s out 24/7 on good grazing that I keep a manageable length for her teeth, she’s also on 3 Stubbs scoops of fastfibre, oil and and 3 stub scoops of E & E a day; that’s about 6/7lb of hard feed. I’m hoping spring grass will help but after that it’s another long winter. When is enough enough? Thing is she’s well and happy in herself and n good shape just too thin! I keep her rugged to stop any unnecessary weight burning to keep warm. What else can I do? I find it hard to put a healthy horse down but I feel like I’m fighting a loosing battle. Spring/summer grass won’t be a permanent fix either though she might look a bit better for a few months. Can increase hard feed again but am I just keeping her alive? She weighs 405kg on weigbridge and is a fine built breed Arab/tb - has never been stocky even when a good weight x

Haven't read the other replies yet, but can you try her on Dodson and Horrell Cushcare condition? It soaks into a lovely mash and is one of the few things to put weight on my soon to be 27yo.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hi I have an underweight 28 yr old. She’s a good eater the problem is she can’t chew well because she only has 50% of her teeth. She’s not a rescue case thin but definitely too lean for a 15.2. This isn’t sudden I’ve been managing her weight for years and it has always just about worked with mashes but now she’s getting harder to keep weight on than ever before. Always in discussion with vet; regular teeth check, on hay substituter as can’t eat hay or hayledge and is even beginning to quid long grass. She’s out 24/7 on good grazing that I keep a manageable length for her teeth, she’s also on 3 Stubbs scoops of fastfibre, oil and and 3 stub scoops of E & E a day; that’s about 6/7lb of hard feed. I’m hoping spring grass will help but after that it’s another long winter. When is enough enough? Thing is she’s well and happy in herself and n good shape just too thin! I keep her rugged to stop any unnecessary weight burning to keep warm. What else can I do? I find it hard to put a healthy horse down but I feel like I’m fighting a loosing battle. Spring/summer grass won’t be a permanent fix either though she might look a bit better for a few months. Can increase hard feed again but am I just keeping her alive? She weighs 405kg on weigbridge and is a fine built breed Arab/tb - has never been stocky even when a good weight x

Have you tried fast fibre allen and page or haycare by simple systems

 

[SantaVera]

Spillers senior mash was good for mine

 

[Pidgeon]

Spillers senior mash was good for mine

Pidge has this too.

 

[Bellalily]

Copra Coolstance is fabulous. I have used it regularly for my oldie at this time of year, but bizarrely now he’s out 24/7 he hasn’t needed it this year. Truly amazing, in two weeks I saw a difference after he dropped off when we emigrated to Ireland. Mind you, I had an awful job trying to find it over there.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Copra Coolstance is fabulous. I have used it regularly for my oldie at this time of year, but bizarrely now he’s out 24/7 he hasn’t needed it this year. Truly amazing, in two weeks I saw a difference after he dropped off when we emigrated to Ireland. Mind you, I had an awful job trying to find it over there.

Tried to feed one of mine this and he absolutely refused. Wouldn’t even taste it! (Fussy bugger). They do free samples on their website for anybody wanting to try it first

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Equijewel it's never failed for weight gain on everything I have tried it on, you don't need to feed loads either.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

My share horse (late teens TB) lost quite a lot of weight over winter - he’s been on Cush care for the last couple of weeks and it’s already making a difference. He’s looking so much healthier and licks his feed bowl completely clean!