Undiagnosed lameness

[Pony180]

Afternoon... My eventer/ hunter went suddenly lame following routine re-shoeing back in April. My farrier had radically changed the hoof shape (fronts) and as I hadn't been there I called him to discuss. He had brought the toe back very sharply and nailed VERY high especially on the inside wall.
A few days later (following xc schooling on soft ground) horse came up lame. Farrier called out, suspensory damage was verdict.

So, as nothing to see in leg bar some minor fetlock swelling I decided to do box rest etc. Still nothing in leg and came sound for 1-2 days then hopping lame again. So abcess suspected, shoe removed and 6 days poulticing. No abcess but white line went blood red (bruising brought down?).
Shoe back on and off to vet. Nerve block to foot 40% sound, block to fetlock 95% sound. So steroid injection to fetlock and box rest/bute. Xrays all good, no obvious damage and scans clear.
14 days later and still lame.
Back to vet... re did original foot and fetlock blocks which made very little difference. Block to coffin joint showed lameness in other foot this time so blocked other one and 99% sound. Remaining lameness put down to shoes pinching his toe (orginal shoes still on as so little foot to re-shoe onto, had double toe clips). So coffin joints medicated, re shod and rest/ bute for a further 10 days.
On trot up, still marginally lame on straight line on road
But was sound on grass both on the straight and on a circle?
Horse not insured so no MRI so vet has advised another 2 weeks on 1 bute a day, out in field on rest and see. Poor vet so frustrated as am I obviously but I was hoping someone on here might be able to offer some ideas of what has happened etc? Idea that might still be bruised (is over 2 months now), but also maybe something to do with the sudden big change to foot balance and shape?
Well done if you got to the end of my essay!!!!

 

[Nocturnal]

I'm afraid if radical changes to foot balance are made suddenly, strains/soft tissue damage are likely as a result. One of the many reasons I would always be present for shoeing/trimming.

I would remove his shoes and allow his feet to recover, myself.

 

[Pony180]

I'm afraid if radical changes to foot balance are made suddenly, strains/soft tissue damage are likely as a result. One of the many reasons I would always be present for shoeing/trimming.

I would remove his shoes and allow his feet to recover, myself.

I wanted to remove shoes also but he is a bit thin soled and farrier/vet advised against it.
Having done alot of reading around due to lack of diagnosis, soft tissue damage seems pretty terminal. Have I just been reading scare stories or will rest and Dr Green be my solution along with proper foot balancing?
Thanks for your reply... have been feeling very lost and alone.

 

[annunziata]

I wanted to remove shoes also but he is a bit thin soled and farrier/vet advised against it.
Having done alot of reading around due to lack of diagnosis, soft tissue damage seems pretty terminal. Have I just been reading scare stories or will rest and Dr Green be my solution along with proper foot balancing?
Thanks for your reply... have been feeling very lost and alone.

Have you had a look at Rockley farm they maybe able to give you some advice?! Shoes off sounds the best way to help sort it out. Get him some Magnesium make sure it is 99% pure and Sience suppliments are asking for horses to go onto a foot trial for their 4Feet conditioner it is on their facebook page. Sorry cant be more help

 

[Miss L Toe]

I wanted to remove shoes also but he is a bit thin soled and farrier/vet advised against it.
Having done alot of reading around due to lack of diagnosis, soft tissue damage seems pretty terminal. Have I just been reading scare stories or will rest and Dr Green be my solution along with proper foot balancing?
Thanks for your reply... have been feeling very lost and alone.

OK I have jumped in to this discussion, and I am probably wrong, but
1] your farrier decided to radically change your horses feet.
2] your horse is now lame
3] flat/thin soles=your horse is poor nutrition/exercise regime, does your farrier not know this, does your vet not know?????
Grass is a bad solution for horses with "feet", it is full of sugars and low in fibres. In order for Doctor Green to work, you have to have a proper diagnosis, a "foot" problem is not the same as a "leg"

 

[Miss L Toe]

Afternoon... My eventer/ hunter went suddenly lame following routine re-shoeing back in April. My farrier had radically changed the hoof shape (fronts) and as I hadn't been there I called him to discuss. He had brought the toe back very sharply and nailed VERY high especially on the inside wall.
A few days later (following xc schooling on soft ground) horse came up lame. Farrier called out, suspensory damage was verdict.

Oh good, the person who has crippled your horse suggests the condition is terminal.............. do you live in a cave?
or do you want to ask your vet?

 

[Pony180]

Oh good, the person who has crippled your horse suggests the condition is terminal.............. do you live in a cave?
or do you want to ask your vet?

Hi Miss L Toe,
I'm not sure if I have offended you somehow? Why would I live in a cave?
Farrier didn't say it was terminal. I had total trust in him as had no issues whatsoever for 7 years.
Vet cannot diagnose as I have said. Was hoping for constructive comments to help me help my horse, not negative backwards unconstructive comments.

 

[Nocturnal]

Soft tissue damage doesn't have to be terminal, but it is important that the horse's feet are balanced correctly, and given time to recuperate. The problem is, that even if the farrier is skilled/lucky enough to get the balance of the feet 100% correct on the day of shoeing, 10 days later the feet will have grown, and the balance will be altered.

Many people are finding that the solution lies in allowing the horse to dictate the balance of its own feet. After all, only the horse knows exactly what's going on in the feet and the rest of its body.

Diet and stimulation is the key to curing thin soles - they do not have to be thin. The trick is to sort the diet before the shoes are removed, and be ready with a set of boots and pads, until the horse can lay down more sole tissue.

 

[Oberon]

Hi Miss L Toe,
I'm not sure if I have offended you somehow? Why would I live in a cave?
Farrier didn't say it was terminal. I had total trust in him as had no issues whatsoever for 7 years.
Vet cannot diagnose as I have said. Was hoping for constructive comments to help me help my horse, not negative backwards unconstructive comments.

Don't take offence Miss L Toe is a bit frustrated on your and your horse's behalf and it's made her tetchy. I suspect she'd like to knock your farrier and vet's heads together

OK.

Hooves are sick - have shoes been on for a long time without a break...ie, years?

I think your instincts are right and the horse needs a break from the shoes and time to repair the balance himself. It's a part of equine management that seems to have been forgotten over the years - hence the increase in lameness and digital limb pathologies, despite the UK having excellent farriers .

You are looking at 9 months to grow a whole new hoof capsule.

BUT you don't have to stop riding for that whole time if you learn how to manage the horse barefoot. Obviously you can have the horse re shod after this time, when he is shiny and new again (if you wish).

I want,
1) Pics of his hooves (side ground view, front ground view, solar view and heel ground view).
2) A list of what he is eating

and we'll see what we can do.

p.s. We 'Barefoot Taliban' see the same problems as yours a lot. Well done for questioning what you are being told .

 

[Pony180]

Don't take offence Miss L Toe is a bit frustrated on your and your horse's behalf and it's made her tetchy. I suspect she'd like to knock your farrier and vet's heads together

OK.

Hooves are sick - have shoes been on for a long time without a break...ie, years?

I think your instincts are right and the horse needs a break from the shoes and time to repair the balance himself. It's a part of equine management that seems to have been forgotten over the years - hence the increase in lameness and digital limb pathologies, despite the UK having excellent farriers .

You are looking at 9 months to grow a whole new hoof capsule.

BUT you don't have to stop riding for that whole time if you learn how to manage the horse barefoot. Obviously you can have the horse re shod after this time, when he is shiny and new again (if you wish).

I want,
1) Pics of his hooves (side ground view, front ground view, solar view and heel ground view).
2) A list of what he is eating

and we'll see what we can do.

p.s. We 'Barefoot Taliban' see the same problems as yours a lot. Well done for questioning what you are being told .

Thanks so much Oberon!!! I am off to find camera and take piccies of said feet, will be back soon

 

[Miss L Toe]

OK I apologise, but it all seems very odd, I will stand back and make no further comment, I hope you get this sorted.

 

[Pony180]

OK I apologise, but it all seems very odd, I will stand back and make no further comment, I hope you get this sorted.

It is really odd and hence why I am asking for ideas... needless to say the farrier was sacked as soon as I saw his feet and have been working with a new one who is very open to ideas and just wants to get him sorted. He is very pro bare foot too. I welcome comments, just productive ones and not just a bashing as trying my best to do the right thing and help my horse be pain free and get back to what he loves as he is so bored.

 

[Pony180]

Ok, here goes photo overload:

As for food he is currently out at grass, has a feed a day of Alfa A, speedibeet, glucosamine & general spec supplement & a bute to help any remaining inflammation.
Prior to this (hunting & then start of event season) he was on Alfa A oil, high protein low starch cube & the above supplements. Plenty of good quality hay ad lib.
Having re-read my previous post I should add that his walls are on the thin side not so much his soles... same problem different area.

 

[mightymammoth]

Don't take offence Miss L Toe is a bit frustrated on your and your horse's behalf and it's made her tetchy. I suspect she'd like to knock your farrier and vet's heads together

OK.

Hooves are sick - have shoes been on for a long time without a break...ie, years?

I think your instincts are right and the horse needs a break from the shoes and time to repair the balance himself. It's a part of equine management that seems to have been forgotten over the years - hence the increase in lameness and digital limb pathologies, despite the UK having excellent farriers .

You are looking at 9 months to grow a whole new hoof capsule.

BUT you don't have to stop riding for that whole time if you learn how to manage the horse barefoot. Obviously you can have the horse re shod after this time, when he is shiny and new again (if you wish).

I want,
1) Pics of his hooves (side ground view, front ground view, solar view and heel ground view).
2) A list of what he is eating

and we'll see what we can do.

p.s. We 'Barefoot Taliban' see the same problems as yours a lot. Well done for questioning what you are being told .

oberon would you do the same for me one day if I get some photos? as long as you promise not to shout at me *whispers* he's wearing eggbars

 

[Oberon]

I'll have a look. You can pm them if you wish. I'll comment on the above photos in the morning as I'm at work for the night now and on my phone