Unethical livery yard owners

[Durhamgirl]

My mare had colic surgery two months ago and last weekend she completed her two months box rest and was able to be turned out into a small paddock. Despite several reasonable requests (from me to YO) during the preceding week for her to use one of the small paddocks, I was refused (she's usually turned out in a herd of mares in a large-ish field) - there were varying reasons; none of which stack up but I bit my tongue to keep the peace in the hope that they would come round and let me use a paddock. Anyway, they didn't and behaved very unreasonably forcing me to move my mare elsewhere where she would have the turnout she needs. Having essentially been forced to move by their behaviour - and at such a critical time in my mare's recovery - I had no intention of giving a month's payment in leiu of notice. YO found out where I had moved to and called new yard owner telling him I'd left without paying but not giving him all the facts. Both sets of yard owners are neighbouring farmers and know each other quite well. New yard owner was not interested in hearing my side of the story and essentially said that if I wanted to stay at his yard I had to pay additional money to previous yard. So, clearly I had no choice other than to pay up although I intend to take legal advice about reclaiming. Old YO also apparently phoned yard manager at new yard and told her that she'd asked me to leave! Not quite sure how that squares with requiring a month's notice! Old YO's have a reputation for treating people like this and bullying behaviour which I wasn't aware of but found out the hard way. Feel so angry about how I've been treated and also that my mare's health and wellbeing was put at risk. I will be seeking legal advice about reclaiming the money as their nasty behaviour was akin to extortion and whilst it's not a huge amount of money, it's a matter of principle. Grateful for any advice that might help with my claim - thank you

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry I don't think you've a leg to stand on. You had two months notice that your mare was going to need small pen turnout. Unless the YO promised you it and then withdrew the promise at the last moment, which it doesn't sound like from what you've said, then you could easily have given a month notice.

The YO does sound a bit unreasonable, but I think you need to let this one go or it will cause you endless stress.

I hope your mare continues to recover well.

 

[ester]

You should have given your months notice a month before leaving when you knew the yard could not provide what you needed, I cannot understand why you didn't or why you thought the YO would have a sudden change of heart?

 

[doodle]

I agree with above post. You had plenty of time to sort paddock and if it was becoming obvious this was not going to happen you had time to sort something else and move. Even if it meant moving immediately but still paying for your months notice.

 

[Shooting Star]

Whilst I would always hope that any reasonable yard owner could make some short term provision for restricted turnout and it's a question that I ask when viewing a yard, if it isn't in your contract that this is part of your livery package then I don't see why you wouldn't have to pay the notice period I'm afraid.

Local yard owners talking to each other is common practice and leaving outstanding debts can limit your options to move to other local yards in the future.

 

[Rowreach]

I don't think I'd have left it till the week before my horse could be turned out to ask the YO for a different turnout option, but as a YO I'd probably have raised the issue with you before then as well.

I would also let another yard know if someone had left mine owing money, that's just how it's done.

I'm never comfortable with new forum members appearing and starting this sort of thread ...

 

[be positive]

I think cases like this are appalling, as a small YO I will go out of my way to accommodate a horse that requires special treatment, providing I had a small paddock, which I always do try and keep just in case, then it would be made available as and when it was required, the welfare of the horse must be put first even if at times it is inconvenient, yes you should have given notice but I cannot understand why they could not have allowed you to use the small paddock, no wonder there are so many threads complaining about YO's when some are so damn unreasonable and don't seem to care about the horses in the yard, did they expect you to just turn her back out with the herd?

If I were you I would pay up and look to move somewhere that does care about you and your horse although it seems they are in the minority so you may struggle to find anywhere.

 

[Rowreach]

I think cases like this are appalling, as a small YO I will go out of my way to accommodate a horse that requires special treatment, providing I had a small paddock, which I always do try and keep just in case, then it would be made available as and when it was required, the welfare of the horse must be put first even if at times it is inconvenient, yes you should have given notice but I cannot understand why they could not have allowed you to use the small paddock, no wonder there are so many threads complaining about YO's when some are so damn unreasonable and don't seem to care about the horses in the yard, did they expect you to just turn her back out with the herd?

If I were you I would pay up and look to move somewhere that does care about you and your horse although it seems they are in the minority so you may struggle to find anywhere.

Yes but there are always two sides, and generally speaking we only hear about disgruntled liveries on here, not the viewpoint of the YO.

 

[ester]

I'm assuming they assumed that once they said no the OP would have looked for somewhere else who could provide the rehab facilities they required. I wonder if their inflexibility was to try and trigger this situation as they weren't that keen on the OP but didn't for some random reason want to ask them outright to leave.

At the end of the day as the OP has discovered the horse world is small so best to leave on the terms of your contract.

 

[be positive]

Yes but there are always two sides, and generally speaking we only hear about disgruntled liveries on here, not the viewpoint of the YO.

Yes there are two sides and I could probably write a book on what a YO has to put up with at times!! but at the end of the day the horse is the priority and I would never want a horse to suffer or be put at risk just because of personality clashes, lack of prompt payment or to "show who is in control"
A few years ago I had a full livery that needed turnout after box rest and my fields were not suitable, end of winter and no grass to speak of, so I found somewhere nearby he and another could go for a month, I went twice a day to feed and hay them, good clients and a lovely horse are worth going the extra mile for.

 

[ester]

Maybe the YO would have reacted differently in an emergency but figured with 2 months notice that if the OP really wanted a small paddock she had plenty of time to find one.

 

[Rowreach]

A few years ago I had a full livery that needed turnout after box rest and my fields were not suitable, end of winter and no grass to speak of, so I found somewhere nearby he and another could go for a month, I went twice a day to feed and hay them, good clients and a lovely horse are worth going the extra mile for.

Yes I am the same, which is why I suppose the YO in question has her reasons for not going the extra mile

 

[Durhamgirl]

I think cases like this are appalling, as a small YO I will go out of my way to accommodate a horse that requires special treatment, providing I had a small paddock, which I always do try and keep just in case, then it would be made available as and when it was required, the welfare of the horse must be put first even if at times it is inconvenient, yes you should have given notice but I cannot understand why they could not have allowed you to use the small paddock, no wonder there are so many threads complaining about YO's when some are so damn unreasonable and don't seem to care about the horses in the yard, did they expect you to just turn her back out with the herd?

If I were you I would pay up and look to move somewhere that does care about you and your horse although it seems they are in the minority so you may struggle to find anywhere.

Thank you be positive - very wise words. I have now found a yard which does care about the horses' welfare and they have set up a small paddock for my mare. I just wish I hadn't had to make the move whilst she was still recovering from surgery. The previous yard had let me use the small paddock when she was recovering from a tendon injury in January so I had no reason to suspect this request would be refused. I think it was more of a control issue which is just not on when it comprises a horse's wellbeing. Thank goodness there are YO like you out there!

 

[SO1]

I am afraid that like others I agree you were liable to give the required notice. You asked in advance and they said no you could not use one of the small paddocks. I expect that at that point they were expecting you to make alternative arrangements either moving permanently or temporarily to a yard which could accommodate your requirements.

Sadly a lot of yards just do not have enough turnout to accommodate sick paddocks for those that are recovering from injury and need restricted or individual turnout. There is a cost associated with keeping a paddock free for use as a sick paddock. I livery on a yard that also does rehab livery and hear so often the rehab customers are coming from yards that cannot cater for their horse's needs post injury or whilst they are injured.

 

[tessah]

I think cases like this are appalling, as a small YO I will go out of my way to accommodate a horse that requires special treatment, providing I had a small paddock, which I always do try and keep just in case, then it would be made available as and when it was required, the welfare of the horse must be put first even if at times it is inconvenient, yes you should have given notice but I cannot understand why they could not have allowed you to use the small paddock, no wonder there are so many threads complaining about YO's when some are so damn unreasonable and don't seem to care about the horses in the yard, did they expect you to just turn her back out with the herd?

If I were you I would pay up and look to move somewhere that does care about you and your horse although it seems they are in the minority so you may struggle to find anywhere.

This

Maybe it wasn't possible to know until the week before knowing that your horse could be turned out in a restricted area. Where is the compassion? If your horse was recovering from colic surgery you would like to see some compassion too! Colic surgery is no small thing!

 

[rachk89]

Probably best to pay up, if for no other reason than to avoid yourself getting a solicitors letter demanding payment.

I have yet to encounter a YO like this thankfully but I think it might be due to me being overly picky about where my horse goes and being able to tell if someone is going to be a problem (like the one who thought my preferred vet was too expensive and preferred the cheaper less knowledgeable ones that says everything). I like my current one although he thinks I am nuts and worry too much (I do) but he knows to basically humour me now. The place we are at has the best YO in the area I think. One doesn't know what strangles is, one I would question if she would look after my horse properly, and another who thinks it's ok to charge double everywhere else because of the name of the place. Think i will stick with mine lol.

 

[ycbm]

This

Maybe it wasn't possible to know until the week before knowing that your horse could be turned out in a restricted area. Where is the compassion? If your horse was recovering from colic surgery you would like to see some compassion too! Colic surgery is no small thing!

It's standard procedure. I think most hospitals would discharge with rehab instructions that will contain this information. If not, surely it's common sense that you can't take a horse with a major incision in its gut wall from box rest to group field turnout in one go?

Reading between the lines the YO may have been pleased to see this livery leave, by the sound of it. Because they certainly put them in a position where there was no other option.

 

[Tyssandi]

My mare had colic surgery two months ago and last weekend she completed her two months box rest and was able to be turned out into a small paddock. Despite several reasonable requests (from me to YO) during the preceding week for her to use one of the small paddocks, I was refused (she's usually turned out in a herd of mares in a large-ish field) - there were varying reasons; none of which stack up but I bit my tongue to keep the peace in the hope that they would come round and let me use a paddock. Anyway, they didn't and behaved very unreasonably forcing me to move my mare elsewhere where she would have the turnout she needs. Having essentially been forced to move by their behaviour - and at such a critical time in my mare's recovery - I had no intention of giving a month's payment in leiu of notice. YO found out where I had moved to and called new yard owner telling him I'd left without paying but not giving him all the facts. Both sets of yard owners are neighbouring farmers and know each other quite well. New yard owner was not interested in hearing my side of the story and essentially said that if I wanted to stay at his yard I had to pay additional money to previous yard. So, clearly I had no choice other than to pay up although I intend to take legal advice about reclaiming. Old YO also apparently phoned yard manager at new yard and told her that she'd asked me to leave! Not quite sure how that squares with requiring a month's notice! Old YO's have a reputation for treating people like this and bullying behaviour which I wasn't aware of but found out the hard way. Feel so angry about how I've been treated and also that my mare's health and wellbeing was put at risk. I will be seeking legal advice about reclaiming the money as their nasty behaviour was akin to extortion and whilst it's not a huge amount of money, it's a matter of principle. Grateful for any advice that might help with my claim - thank you

As a yard owner I would def make a small paddock for a horse who is ill or had surgery, I would not think twice so in that respect yo is s being unfair. In fact I had one in that small area for 6 months now she is back in it again due to reoccurring the injury.

 

[YorksG]

I do wonder if there were any issues when the OP needed the individual paddock previously? If there were than that may explain why the YO has been difficult this time.

 

[Durhamgirl]

It's standard procedure. I think most hospitals would discharge with rehab instructions that will contain this information. If not, surely it's common sense that you can't take a horse with a major incision in its gut wall from box rest to group field turnout in one go?

Reading between the lines the YO may have been pleased to see this livery leave, by the sound of it. Because they certainly put them in a position where there was no other option.

They did indeed put me in a position where there was no other option. As I said in my original post they have a reputation for this type of behaviour which sadly I wasn't aware of until it was too late. I've since spoken to 'escapees' fro that yard who've said I wasn't the first and probably won't be the last. I'm glad that myself and my mare are now at a much better yard where she's getting what she needs for her recovery. I never knew there were so many judgemental people on this forum! I'll think twice before asking for any advice next time I think!

 

[tristar]

i really feel for you op, and am very glad your mare is recovering and things have settled down,

whatever the situation on a yard the welfare of the horses should come first, to turf the mare out with all the associated disruption at a critical time in her progress was nothing short of barbaric, i only hope it all works out for the best.

 

[ycbm]

They did indeed put me in a position where there was no other option. As I said in my original post they have a reputation for this type of behaviour which sadly I wasn't aware of until it was too late. I've since spoken to 'escapees' fro that yard who've said I wasn't the first and probably won't be the last. I'm glad that myself and my mare are now at a much better yard where she's getting what she needs for her recovery. I never knew there were so many judgemental people on this forum! I'll think twice before asking for any advice next time I think!

To be fair Durham Girl, it would help you not to receive judgemental posts if you didn't ask for help how to evade paying a month's notice because a yard owner wouldn't give you something that you should have known two months ago that you were going to need to ask for. We can only go by what we read.

As for not being the first, there are plenty of posts on here about yards that cannot offer a rehab pen and horses that go to other yards while they recover. So you had good company in that respect., right across the country. 'This type of behaviour', with respect to your own particular problem with the yard, is clearly quite normal.

I'm glad your mare is settled and I hope she continues to a full recovery. I'm sure that neither you nor she needed this worry.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

There are always two sides to a difficulty on a yard.

As a YO myself, albeit only a very small affair, I can understand the difficulties of any YO on a larger yard, who cannot possibly accede to every request made by a livery where possibly (just possibly) a little more notice could have been given..... here I would always try to find a way of sorting out a problem in a sensible way, but sometimes that isn't always possible, especially on a bigger yard where if you "give in" to one request, it all too frequently might open the floodgates and then people start taking the P!ss.

On the other hand, I can understand OP's angst that she is very obviously anxious about her mare and probably therefore might not have had her head together to organise the "details" and/or notify the yard in plenty of time so that the arrangements could be made. She obviously feels that she has been hardly done by and that she is being asked to stump up money which she feels strongly that she shouldn't have to pay.

Whatever.... I think that the OP WILL have to pay-up-and-look-sweet about this; agree that once you have left a yard without paying up fully - and the reason why matters not a jot - then you are liable to have a reputation that follows you around like a bad odour for evermore and in that particular area you are forever tainted as a Bad Payer whether you actually are or not.

Let lessons be learned I would say, and then draw a line under the unfortunate experience and move to another yard completely, and make a new start in another area well away from these two places mentioned.

 

[Gsmith]

Whilst I think it is disappointing they couldn't accommodate your mares needs, I think you should have paid your notice. On the few occasions I have left yards I always pay full notice and act as politely as possible, the horsey world is a small place and you never know what the future holds

 

[Pedantic]

I would just have paid an moved on with "my" reputation of doing the "right" thing intact, regardless of the lack of help from yard owner.

 

[SpringArising]

You're being unreasonable.

 

[Merlod]

Did you have a livery contract? I don't wish to seem insensitive but by the sounds of it your livery consists of herd turnout and stable. Perhaps you should have given YO advance notice or offer additional payment for use of a small paddock or buy some electric fencing and ask to make your own small paddock inside the herd field, not just requtested a paddock a week beforhand when it doesn't seem to be part of your livery package.

I try my best to accomodate my liveries and I have a small holding paddock for short term use (keeping horses near for vet farrier visits or sickness) but I would be pretty peed off if my liveries started demanding things they weren't paying for or had given me no notice of. I would pay up to keep your new YO happy and not have a bad rep.

 

[Goldenstar]

You owe the money pay it and move on anything else is just silly .