Unexpected litter

Wagtail

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We have a pair of very large pedigree dogs (won't say what sort as don't want to advertise). We originally lost our neutered male two years ago to cancer and our (entire) bitch was overcome with grief. We therefore found another adult male of the same breed that was sold to us as entire but proven infertile. We got him cheaper and without papers. We have had him for two years and took no notice when they bred for each of the bitches cycles since then (four times). No puppies resulted, obviously. However, she had her last season six weeks ago and now she is looking slightly bigger around her waistline and her nipples are huge! :eek: Ckecked by vet and is in pup. No other dog has been in contact with her. How could a dog that has bred numerous times suddenly become fertile? I am not angry with the breeder as obviously he WAS infertile, but now not? :confused:

Anyway, I have the facilities to cope with a litter and am busily making preparations as they often have ten or more, so bottles, milk substitute, whelping bed etc are all in hand. Anyway, I feel stupid enough so constructive comments only, please :). What is done is done. But I have a couple of questions:

Obviously I want to make sure this doesn't happen again, and so will be having one of them neutered, but can't decide which one. We have had very bad experiences with bitches being spayed in the past, in that two of them became very badly incontinent and caused considerable distress to the bitch themselves. But our dog is terrified of vets. He trembles the whole time he is in there and so to leave him there for an op would be very traumatic for him. The bitch is six and the dog is four.

Second question: the puppies will be pedigree, but unregistered, so obviously need to reflect this in the price. These dogs normally sell for around £900 and there are usually only one or two litters available at any time in the entire UK. So how much less would it be fair to sell them for? I was thinking £650. Is this a fair price. I would be very fussy where they went too. Thanks.
 
It is not uncommon for a dog to shoot blanks as a youngster and unless semen tests were done he could have just been low fertility and wrong day rather than infertile.
I assume that as he had been tried at stud he is health tested? His results should be on the KC website.
I would be very worried for a maiden bitch at 6 years old. I would also never allow any unsupervised mating as I've seen a torn bitch and a dog with a broken penis.
As to price - I would always advise anyone that if the breed is registrable and the pups not registered pay no more than you would from a rescue or walk away.
 
It is not uncommon for a dog to shoot blanks as a youngster and unless semen tests were done he could have just been low fertility and wrong day rather than infertile.
I assume that as he had been tried at stud he is health tested? His results should be on the KC website.
I would be very worried for a maiden bitch at 6 years old. I would also never allow any unsupervised mating as I've seen a torn bitch and a dog with a broken penis.
As to price - I would always advise anyone that if the breed is registrable and the pups not registered pay no more than you would from a rescue or walk away.

Thank you. That is very useful info. We did breed a registered litter from her when she was three years old. She had the pups without problems and all puppies were sold very quickly.
 
I would be ringing the breeder of the male and explaining the situation and asking for his papers so you can get these pups registered....yup she may want some money out of you as he was sold to you cheap in the first place but if you had taken bitch to stud it would have cost you so I would offer to stump up some cash and get his papers back for the benefit of this litter then I would get both dogs neutered, the bitch is getting older so with risk of pyo etc she could do with spaying anyway. Both parents are health tested I take it? How large is large breed? Was your vet happy that the bitch can whelp this litter safely?
 
I would be ringing the breeder of the male and explaining the situation and asking for his papers so you can get these pups registered....yup she may want some money out of you as he was sold to you cheap in the first place but if you had taken bitch to stud it would have cost you so I would offer to stump up some cash and get his papers back for the benefit of this litter then I would get both dogs neutered, the bitch is getting older so with risk of pyo etc she could do with spaying anyway. Both parents are health tested I take it? How large is large breed? Was your vet happy that the bitch can whelp this litter safely?

Thanks, they are a giant breed. Bitch is health tested and dog very good lines so expect he has been. I have to admit when we bought him we were in a hurry due to the bitch pining so much and as we did not want to breed again I did not ask! The vet did not seem concerned because she had had a previous litter and it really was like 'shelling peas' the last time. I just remember what hard work it was as she had nine and only six nipples were any good so I had to supplement feeding. It is also a huge financial cost. :(
 
Look for his pedigree name on the kc health test checker, results should come up.
Get hold of the people he came from asap explain and ask for his papers. They should be understanding and willing to help, as breeders they should know themselves that its of benefit to the resulting litter to be registered and endorsements placed etc.
 
Thanks, Vizslak. I gather from your profile pic and name you breed Hungarian Vizslas? Lovely dogs, my sister has them and also one of my friends, too. Thanks for all your help.
 
I dont breed as such...although I do have a litter on the ground at the moment so that sort of means I do I guess! LOL
 
Spay the bitch. Unspayed bitches, particularly after litters of pups are very prone to life threatening infections of the womb. I'd neuter him as well personally.
 
Spay the bitch. Unspayed bitches, particularly after litters of pups are very prone to life threatening infections of the womb. I'd neuter him as well personally.

Thats not actually true, pyo is far far more prevalent in bitches that have never been bred from. However, I agree that bitches should be spayed when older to prevent it occuring.
 
I have decided to spay the bitch. We may also neuter the dog, though as I say, a visit to the vets is very traumatic for him. I have to get the vet here for their innoculations. He's not a nervous dog normally, and very friendly and doen't seem to mind being injected at home.
 
I too would love to know the breed as I have a giant at home haha. Good luck with the litter hope everything goes smoothly for your girl
 
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