Unfair Dressage Judging

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Muddywellies

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Has anyone else come accross this? I have written on occasions for a dressage judge and she marks up the people she teaches (and likes), and marks down the people she doesn't like. It has given me serious doubts about competing now. It is only unaffilliated, but that shouldn't matter, surely. Does anyone else phone the show secretary before entering, to find out who the judge is, before deciding whether to enter? I am thinking I might start doing that.
 
blimey thankfully no I have never come across anything that blatent !

There was one judge when I was out competing a lot who I did not see eye to eye with so I did aboid any competitions she was judging. Some people told me I was being detrimetnal to myself by doing so and should accept the views off all. However strangley enough more and more venus stopped using her so I don't think I was the only one
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We don't phone to find out who is judging, as you say it shouldn't really matter. This is one of the reasons I don't like my daughter doing dressage or showing classes because the outcome depends on how another person feels or likes your particular horse. Give me showjumping every time, you either knock the fence down or you don't, refuse or not, are in time or not. All the personal interference is removed from the equasion. It's alot fairer!
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I totally agree about showjumping. I used to showjump as it is much fairer. Your results are completely down to your own effort/ability and not the opinion of another.
 
I do a fair bit of writing for judges and have a couple who if they now them etc and the mark is between a 6 and a 7 will give a 7, but they can do it even if its someone they dont know. It is subjective.

This is the reason I have affiliated as the judging is a lot better There was one judge in our area a bit like this and I avoid them! and have not seen her out for a long time so they may have got the message! (they had not qualified or ever ridden a dressage test)
 
I knew of one judge whose clients followed him round and always won. They came in the middle with other judges. There were rumours that he was open to bribery to but the horse world is full of rumours.

It is hard to judge fairly if you are judging your own clients I think. Some people can and some cant.

Having also written I think the fairest comments and marks are given from about the 5th person to go until about the 10th! The first 4 are marked harshly. After the 10th the marks seem to be less thought about. After 20th then the marks are pretty random!

I have only once experienced bad judging where very good horses were beaten by ones going along with their noses on the floor! And beaten by miles!!! I think the class was too long. The people who went early got average of 50% despite the fact that most of them were regularly getting 60 + and winning classes at higher levels. Later in the day the average had risen to 65% and these percentages were given to some very badly schooled/behaved ponies.

Funnily enough in the other class with another judge the order was very different!!
 
I help at our RC competitions. We use listed judges whenever possible and very rarely get complaints about the standard of dressage judging. There are a couple of non listed judges in our area who are a bit notorious but we try to avoid using these ones. However as anyone who organises shows will know it is sometimes difficult to get judges especially at busy times of year. We have never had to cancel a show yet becuase we can't get judges but it has come awfully close a few times.
 
I know there are two local judges to me that just don't like my horse - one just is pro-warmblood-movement and you can guarantee that if there are any WBs in the class (unaffil.) then they will win despite errors of course; inaccurate movements, cantering on wrong leg, etc over a TB or native X who does a pleasing accurate test

The other is just anti-anything that doesn't have it's mane plaited and you can almost see the 'bling' factor in the results - it's the people with the poshest saddle, and turned out like a C&T class that get good marks

I still compete against them 'cos I want to see how my horse does compared with what I know he is capable of. If I get constructive marks from a judge even better, but if I know they are talking cowdung I ignore the sheet
 
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I totally agree about showjumping. I used to showjump as it is much fairer. Your results are completely down to your own effort/ability and not the opinion of another.

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Apart from when judges don't notice fences gonig down left right and centre and award clear rounds! And this is at BSJA shows!

Back to the dressage - I tend to stick to places that only use list judges - quite a few unaffiliated venues do so once I find somewhere that does, I go back.
 
Yep, venues that also hold BD dressage usually do but some venues that only run unaffiliated dressage will. I did a walk and trot test at a venue that only holds unaffiliated yesterday and they had a list judge judging it.
 
The only time I've been upset by dressage judging was at a RC ODE. A lady who owned the local EC was competing on a polo pony, all it could do was canter, it did the whole test in canter with its head in the air It never walked or trotted once. Now my horse could actually walk trot and canter (even on the right leg
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) and I got worse marks than her.
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What I personally do not like is judges who if you do not have a warmblood mark you down.

I did the same test with both Cairo, our clydesdale - full feathers etc and Fleur, my stunning warmblood who really looked the part.

Cairo did his best test ever - Fleur was tense, did a flying change and was not great. Cairo only got 2% more than Fleur. I was disgusted - just because he is a big hairy monster does not mean he cannot do a good walk, trot and canter at prelim level.

You do get judges who appreciate hairy cobs, but many do not. Same for showing...
 
Showing and dressage are by their nature subjective. I usually get marked up because most of the judges around here like my horse. My marks went up with a couple of them since I started flirting a little with them ...
 
drjames, you are a tart!

I have been judging unafil for a year now and take it very seriously. I have been to BD Training Seminars with List 1 judges and would like to think that I mark fairly and consistantly. I have no preferred breed either.

I do understand as a competitor myself that the beautiful flowing paces of a WB turns some judges heads, I have seen it myself when the WB has error of course, wrong canter lead, etc and have won the class.

Judges are few and far between which means that venues have to take what they can get. All I can do is encourage as many people as possible who feel this way to take up writing/judging and change the system for the better. No longer will venues have to ask the 'judge with a grudge' if they have a long list of others. Its a great eye opener too if you are a competitor as you can learn so much, and from a judges eye view.
 
I do phone beforehand some venues as there are one or two judges that just do not mark us well - I also always ask when I ring for my times. It's not because I can't accept constructive criticism (these judges are just negative) but when I go to the time and effort to plait, clean tack, bath horse, make a journey to the venue which can be anything over half an hour, etc, etc. I just don't see the point of going to upset myself and get frustrated - I like to enjoy my dressage and they just ruin my day - so best to avoid it in the first place! However, I neve let it put me off because 9 times out of 10 I have a good time!
 
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drjames, you are a tart!

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Just be glad I did not tell you the story of how I overcame any nervousness about judges...
 
I remember reading in a magazine years ago someone gasping in horror at hearing a Dressage judge mark someone "too high" for a movement because the judge "had seen her do better than that"

At the riding school that I used to go to in my teens (where the Instructor thought I was a "Retard") there were mini shows for the clients and one of the classes was Dressage - I entered a few times then stopped bothering as she always gave me 2s and 3s for every movement regardless of how good/bad/indifferent and I even heard her saying that she marked by how well she knew the rider could ride!

So much for judging what's in front of you...
 
2's and 3's!! thats really mean...even if the horse isnt on the bit, but going foward and calmly I would give it a 5. I think I judge very fairly. I take it extremely seriously as I know what its like to be on the wrong end of bad judging. I only do unaffiliated as not an official judge but have done loads of sitting in with a list 2 judge and know what to look for. I would never judge differently just because I liked the horse or knew the rider (doesnt happen that often anyway as tend to judge quite a way from home)
 
I had one "senior" (i.e. geriatric judge) give me an 8 and a 2 in the same test. He either loved what we did, or hated it!
 
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2's and 3's!! thats really mean

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She also used to write really insulting comments too!

That was until she rode my horse herself one day (wanted to show off that I was a crap rider basically) she couldn't get the mare to do anything...

I still got rotten marks, but the comments were a bit kinder

bwahahahahahaha

*coff*
 
This was some time ago - I was writing for a dressage judge and it was a regional round of some competition. The judge looked at the list of entries before the class started and said that one of the horses was by her own stallion.

The standard was pretty good and quite even, all the horses were getting 6/7/8 and there weren't any that stood out (and only 1 that was bad). The marks were very close.

The class was getting on, and when I handed over the sheet for yet another bay horse with average marks, this one was her stallion's offspring. (She hadn't noticed until after the test). Apart from the winning horse, this horse got the highest marks in the whole competition for the "way of going" etc. at the end. These extra marks were enough to get this horse into the placings.

After the class and everyone was looking at the score board I saw the judge skip over to the owner of the horse and congratulate her on how well it was going!

Sneaky eh?
 
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