Kat
Well-Known Member
Agree with that 100%
unfair riding fails at Summerhouse today BHS 2
- Thread starter yaddowshad
- Start date
Agree with that 100%
yaddowshad
Well-Known Member
I do appologise for the offensive language of "DARN" and "CRAP" for goodness sake, best you dont look up FUBAR or you will have a heart attack.
I am very serious about the BHS Exams and by the people who have responded at least 90% support what i say.
Have you noticed the occupation of the long winded lecturing comments????????
galaxy
Well-Known Member
I can see your point. That is what it stands for literally.
However as an AI the BHS states that we are capable and qualified to to teach up to Novice level dressage and 2ft6 jumping (this is off the top of my head... PLEASE someone correct me if I am wrong). There is no mention anywhere of us having to be supervised or anything of the sort. We are qualified to teach the "lower skill level" (if you like) of riders out there.
WishfulThinker
Well-Known Member
I also think that generally, it is just declining standards across the board. I know quite a few youngsters who dream of working with horses and becoming instructors, but they really REALLY shouldn't as they can ride ok, but they cant understand they dynamics of it all. I dont myself understand it enough - even after 16 years I still cant figure out how to teach a horse to do something. But if I go away and research it then I can. BUT I need to keep looking things up.
So even though I grumbled before, I am not thinking that maybe loads failing is a very good way of separating the wheat from the chaff? And that they need to maybe split the stages further - to have a Professional stage and a Leisure stage (do they do this already??). And have the leisure one in smaller increments?
But as reference........I used to when I was younger work at a local dressage stud. I got to ride and school the horses and I would get taught by this german guy who was over to learn about studs before he opened his own one. He was impressed and I got offered an apprentiship with him (I couldnt go as I was only 13 - he thought I was 16). However, I could never get past my Blue Ribbon at the riding school I went to. No matter how hard I tried. My mum used to think it was because I hated jumping. But, It was just that I didnt ride the way they wanted me to, but I still knew how to ride.
But carrying on from that and reverting to what I said before.............I didnt ride for a good 4 years and during that time I think I almost completely forgot EVERYTHING I ever learnt! I couldnt(and still cant) remember my diagonals, haha. I need to refresh myself every so often or it all goes to **** basically.
I have completely lost the point I was about to make.....................It's friday. I want to go home!
So even though I grumbled before, I am not thinking that maybe loads failing is a very good way of separating the wheat from the chaff? And that they need to maybe split the stages further - to have a Professional stage and a Leisure stage (do they do this already??). And have the leisure one in smaller increments?
But as reference........I used to when I was younger work at a local dressage stud. I got to ride and school the horses and I would get taught by this german guy who was over to learn about studs before he opened his own one. He was impressed and I got offered an apprentiship with him (I couldnt go as I was only 13 - he thought I was 16). However, I could never get past my Blue Ribbon at the riding school I went to. No matter how hard I tried. My mum used to think it was because I hated jumping. But, It was just that I didnt ride the way they wanted me to, but I still knew how to ride.
But carrying on from that and reverting to what I said before.............I didnt ride for a good 4 years and during that time I think I almost completely forgot EVERYTHING I ever learnt! I couldnt(and still cant) remember my diagonals, haha. I need to refresh myself every so often or it all goes to **** basically.
I have completely lost the point I was about to make.....................It's friday. I want to go home!
yaddowshad
Well-Known Member
By the way im using Yaddowshads forum but I am not Yaddowshad, im actually a fully qualified riding instructor who strongly believes an injustice has been done to some candidates and i find it quite alarming that you assessors and so called AI instructors have not once taken the side of failed candidates who feel they should not have failed. I for one think you are very one sided for not even asking why i feel they shouldnt have failed, has it crossed your minds that I may indeed be an examiner myself???????????????
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
I am qualified to Masters level in my chosen profession, with many years experience, I still have supervision each month from a person who is equally qualified in my chosen specialism. I also supervise others. The fact that AI's do not consider that they require any form of supervision rather confirms my opinion of them tbh.
It is my understanding that the original concept of AI. II and I were meant to be just that. I am actually quite horrified to learn that AI's consider themselves so competent that they do not need any ongoing CDC and supervisiom
Kat
Well-Known Member
YorksG I agree regarding supervision and continual professional development, most professions are the same. My own requires ongoing training even at the very highest level, and at every firm I have worked at there is peer review and audit of even the most senior staff. As someone said on another thread, the day you think you have nothing left to learn is the day you should give up or something like that. It seems that there is perhaps a lack of humility from some.
Yaddowshad - why don't you enlighten us as to your precise qualifications, and your role at the stage 2 exams rather than being cryptic it might actually contribute to the debate and help us to understand where you are coming from.
Yaddowshad - why don't you enlighten us as to your precise qualifications, and your role at the stage 2 exams rather than being cryptic it might actually contribute to the debate and help us to understand where you are coming from.
yaddowshad
Well-Known Member
In France I have been told that a BHS AI isnt qualified to teach over there and that they are only permitted to take rides out hacking. Now im not saying an AI isnt a good teacher as I know some AIs who are far better than BHS1s and a couple of FBHS who ive met over the years. However they are ASSISTANTS (clues in the title).
Do you know nearly 3000 hits have gone on this forum so it has certainly struck a cord with a lot of people, maybe the executives of the BHS should perhaps take peoples opinions and grievences more seriously in the future and get out from behind their desks and sort it out.
Do you know nearly 3000 hits have gone on this forum so it has certainly struck a cord with a lot of people, maybe the executives of the BHS should perhaps take peoples opinions and grievences more seriously in the future and get out from behind their desks and sort it out.
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
I am qualified to Masters level in my chosen profession, with many years experience, I still have supervision each month from a person who is equally qualified in my chosen specialism. I also supervise others. The fact that AI's do not consider that they require any form of supervision rather confirms my opinion of them tbh.
It is my understanding that the original concept of AI. II and I were meant to be just that. I am actually quite horrified to learn that AI's consider themselves so competent that they do not need any ongoing CDC and supervisiom
Not all....
My instructor is an AI....'getting in years' dare I say, and SHE still has regular lessons, she also competes herself...
Some people are beginning to generalise a little too much here....
Weezy
Well-Known Member
I have forked out for a lesson from a FBHS, in fact some may say this person is one of the most highly regarded and qualified people representing the BHS.
The lesson was dreadful - the person gave me about 10 mins instruction, to which there was absolutely no improvement as I had explained there wouldn't be and I made them get on my horse to prove it. This person got on my horse, rode her for about 5 mins, got off and said *OK that will do, quite frankly just continue with what you are doing, I cannot make her go any better than you can* and charged me full price. I was spitting, I am not *all that* and most people can make my horses go better than I can!
The lesson was dreadful - the person gave me about 10 mins instruction, to which there was absolutely no improvement as I had explained there wouldn't be and I made them get on my horse to prove it. This person got on my horse, rode her for about 5 mins, got off and said *OK that will do, quite frankly just continue with what you are doing, I cannot make her go any better than you can* and charged me full price. I was spitting, I am not *all that* and most people can make my horses go better than I can!
TGM
Well-Known Member
I think you miss the point entirely! It is not the individual terms that are the problem, but the lack of reasoning and sensible argument in some of your postings! You need to state clearly and unemotionally exactly what the failings in the system are (ie more than just 'people say it is crap' and 'it needs to sort itself out') and what can be done to improve things. If you look at some of the other posts on this thread (from posters on both sides of the argument) you can see how other people do this, with the result that what they have to say is taken more seriously.
Judging by the number of postings you have made on this subject, you feel strongly about it, so if you want to pursue the issue then do so in a way that portrays you as professional and reasonable person, and not an angry individual with an axe to grind.
yaddowshad
Well-Known Member
Yaddowshad - why don't you enlighten us as to your precise qualifications, and your role at the stage 2 exams rather than being cryptic it might actually contribute to the debate and help us to understand where you are coming from.[/QUOTE]
Katt: Like I mentioned earlier Im not Yaddowshad but i am using this forum with permission from Yaddowshad. Sometimes you have to be a bit Cryptic to get your point across and gain other peoples points of view also you should never show your hand too early.
What I can say is that this thread has had nearly 3000 hits and the discussions are fascinating, being annonomous is the beauty of this forum as people are free to say what they like with no direct retaliation aimed at them. I know that certain people would love to know who I am but that aint happening anytime soon as I think more discussion and points of view are needed to gain any change what so ever.
Katt: Like I mentioned earlier Im not Yaddowshad but i am using this forum with permission from Yaddowshad. Sometimes you have to be a bit Cryptic to get your point across and gain other peoples points of view also you should never show your hand too early.
What I can say is that this thread has had nearly 3000 hits and the discussions are fascinating, being annonomous is the beauty of this forum as people are free to say what they like with no direct retaliation aimed at them. I know that certain people would love to know who I am but that aint happening anytime soon as I think more discussion and points of view are needed to gain any change what so ever.
yaddowshad
Well-Known Member
TGM: You are correct in your assumption that I am extremely angry and have an axe to grind, the reasons have been portryed in a very down to earth way so that all on this forum can understand it this is why so many people have responded.
I could have laid down a debate with reasonable argument on both sides but I guarantee you the results would not have been the same.
I am more than happy to recieve a lecture on preparing and presenting an argument but I think I had enough of that when I took my Masters degree at university.
I could have laid down a debate with reasonable argument on both sides but I guarantee you the results would not have been the same.
I am more than happy to recieve a lecture on preparing and presenting an argument but I think I had enough of that when I took my Masters degree at university.
Kat
Well-Known Member
I didn't ask who you are just for your qualification and role within the exams.
It is difficult to know how much weight to give your comments without knowing that.
For example you could be one of the candidates, in which case I may not place much weight on your assessment of the quality of the assessment. You could be staff at the exam centre (which is the impression I got from your OP) in which case slightly more weight but still likely to be some bias. You could be an assessor or examiner in which case I would be questionning why you didn't intervene and why you aren't doing anything directly rather than posting on a forum.
You might be any number of other things, but it makes a huge difference to how your story is interpreted.
Oh and why borrow someone's log in, the forum is free, you can create your own with an anonymous name if you want to - then you don't have to keep correcting us when we call you by the screen name you are using.
It is difficult to know how much weight to give your comments without knowing that.
For example you could be one of the candidates, in which case I may not place much weight on your assessment of the quality of the assessment. You could be staff at the exam centre (which is the impression I got from your OP) in which case slightly more weight but still likely to be some bias. You could be an assessor or examiner in which case I would be questionning why you didn't intervene and why you aren't doing anything directly rather than posting on a forum.
You might be any number of other things, but it makes a huge difference to how your story is interpreted.
Oh and why borrow someone's log in, the forum is free, you can create your own with an anonymous name if you want to - then you don't have to keep correcting us when we call you by the screen name you are using.
touchstone
Well-Known Member
I qualified as a BHSAI over twenty seven years ago after a gruelling 18 months as a working pupil. It was hard work and we had to ride/teach well above the standard required before we were allowed to put in for our exams, which back then were the ptt and horsemasters exam along with stage I, II and III. Out of the six people I know who took their BHSAI at around the same time only three passed first time and two of those who failed went on to resit and passed the second time around. But failing did give them pointers to work on for the next time and improved them, even though it was an expensive exercise. I do think that working with horses day in day out is a much better basis for getting through the exams rather than some of the college based courses.
Nowadays I see more AI's that are incapable of producing a decent horse and giving good instruction, so there must be something going wrong somewhere, and I worry that the danger is that we are 'dumbing down' the exam system; I'd be more worried about people passing the exam too easily than those that are failing to be perfectly honest, although obviously if there were genuine concerns about 'deliberate' failures then that needs investigating.
Nowadays I see more AI's that are incapable of producing a decent horse and giving good instruction, so there must be something going wrong somewhere, and I worry that the danger is that we are 'dumbing down' the exam system; I'd be more worried about people passing the exam too easily than those that are failing to be perfectly honest, although obviously if there were genuine concerns about 'deliberate' failures then that needs investigating.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Yaddowshad (or whoever you are) - you are being very unprofessional about this.
Frankly I am shocked that you have taken this debate onto this forum. Take your grievances to the BHS. They have worked very very hard in recent years to evolve and improve the exam system which, after all, is internationally recognised. They will, I am sure, be interested in your views about this particular exam. If you are right, I am equally sure steps will be taken.
I am pro BHS. I train people to take BHS exams. Often people come to me thinking that the exams are a walk in the park, and often they are sadly overestimating their own abilities. Candidates fail exams all by themselves - assessors (or examiners) do not fail people. I am pretty good at predicting who will pass and who will fail (barring unforeseen circumstances) and the whole point of an exam is that you have to achieve a certain standard in order to pass it.
The reasons the candidates failed will be given to them in writing in a few day's time. It is no longer possible to give candidates results on the day and a debrief like they used to, because of the unreasonable attitudes of some of those who fail
The reason the exams are so expensive is that the centres charge a lot of money (which they need to given what they are providing) and each exam requires a number of assessors to be present - ask EventingMum, I'm sure she'll tell you she doesn't make her millions doing this job, but the expenses involved certainly mount up.
Be glad you don't have to do your exams in NI/RoI where they are even more expensive.
Frankly I am shocked that you have taken this debate onto this forum. Take your grievances to the BHS. They have worked very very hard in recent years to evolve and improve the exam system which, after all, is internationally recognised. They will, I am sure, be interested in your views about this particular exam. If you are right, I am equally sure steps will be taken.
I am pro BHS. I train people to take BHS exams. Often people come to me thinking that the exams are a walk in the park, and often they are sadly overestimating their own abilities. Candidates fail exams all by themselves - assessors (or examiners) do not fail people. I am pretty good at predicting who will pass and who will fail (barring unforeseen circumstances) and the whole point of an exam is that you have to achieve a certain standard in order to pass it.
The reasons the candidates failed will be given to them in writing in a few day's time. It is no longer possible to give candidates results on the day and a debrief like they used to, because of the unreasonable attitudes of some of those who fail
The reason the exams are so expensive is that the centres charge a lot of money (which they need to given what they are providing) and each exam requires a number of assessors to be present - ask EventingMum, I'm sure she'll tell you she doesn't make her millions doing this job, but the expenses involved certainly mount up.
Be glad you don't have to do your exams in NI/RoI where they are even more expensive.
yaddowshad
Well-Known Member
KATT: Thank you for your comments, yes I could be in one of those catagories otherwise why would I be there?
However its irrelevant as so many people have put forward excellent discussions so my point of view has paled into insignificance.
Thank you to all those who have looked at this forum and especially those that felt strongly enough to reply to it whichever side of the fence you stand, all opinions are valid and worthwhile.
Perhaps the BHS might like to consider the amount of hits and opinions which people have made.
I know the fails which I saw were unfair and nothing will change my mind on that as I was there. But Im also aware that precious little will be done about it, all i can do is let people know that there are other routes into teaching without having to go through the BHS.
Well Im off on holiday for a week, thanks to Yaddowshad for allowing me to use the forum.
However its irrelevant as so many people have put forward excellent discussions so my point of view has paled into insignificance.
Thank you to all those who have looked at this forum and especially those that felt strongly enough to reply to it whichever side of the fence you stand, all opinions are valid and worthwhile.
Perhaps the BHS might like to consider the amount of hits and opinions which people have made.
I know the fails which I saw were unfair and nothing will change my mind on that as I was there. But Im also aware that precious little will be done about it, all i can do is let people know that there are other routes into teaching without having to go through the BHS.
Well Im off on holiday for a week, thanks to Yaddowshad for allowing me to use the forum.
yaddowshad
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE=
I am pro BHS. I train people to take BHS exams. Often people come to me thinking that the exams are a walk in the park, and often they are sadly overestimating their own abilities. Candidates fail exams all by themselves - assessors (or examiners) do not fail people. I am pretty good at predicting who will pass and who will fail (barring unforeseen circumstances) and the whole point of an exam is that you have to achieve a certain standard in order to pass it.
Well, doesnt that say it all "candidates fail themselves" and you call yourself an instructor, you are the very reason people are fed up with BHS Instructors and examiners, none of you take responsibility for your own faults.
You are even pshycic predicting who will fail and who will pass, perhaps you could save the potential failures a bit of cash by telling them your predictions before they waste their money.
"Examiners dont fail people" get a grip on reality.
Out of interest do you tell your clients they are likely to fail or do you just keep taking their money for lessons?????
Dont talk to me about professional you havent got a clue.
I am pro BHS. I train people to take BHS exams. Often people come to me thinking that the exams are a walk in the park, and often they are sadly overestimating their own abilities. Candidates fail exams all by themselves - assessors (or examiners) do not fail people. I am pretty good at predicting who will pass and who will fail (barring unforeseen circumstances) and the whole point of an exam is that you have to achieve a certain standard in order to pass it.
Well, doesnt that say it all "candidates fail themselves" and you call yourself an instructor, you are the very reason people are fed up with BHS Instructors and examiners, none of you take responsibility for your own faults.
You are even pshycic predicting who will fail and who will pass, perhaps you could save the potential failures a bit of cash by telling them your predictions before they waste their money.
"Examiners dont fail people" get a grip on reality.
Out of interest do you tell your clients they are likely to fail or do you just keep taking their money for lessons?????
Dont talk to me about professional you havent got a clue.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Interesting to know that a centre must be qualified to a level higher than what they can offer for training. More interesting is that my local where to train yard (one of the ones that Galaxy mentioned) is no longer on the BHS Where to Train list online.
Such a shame as this area needs some decent trianing centres.
I guess I sit on the fence with the BHS as I've not (yet) failed anything through them. However, I do think parts of the riding exams are outdated and a rethink is needed with regards to what you look like rather than being effective. I'd rather fail for not being effective enough than not holding my forward lightseat for the right amount of time etc.
Also, the whole 'you must be able to jump' to teach and not having any other way of getting a decent teaching qualification. Given that 95% of jumping is flatwork, why should someone have to prove themselves over a course of 2ft6/3ft/whatever when they're only concerned about flatwork?
Such a shame as this area needs some decent trianing centres.
I guess I sit on the fence with the BHS as I've not (yet) failed anything through them. However, I do think parts of the riding exams are outdated and a rethink is needed with regards to what you look like rather than being effective. I'd rather fail for not being effective enough than not holding my forward lightseat for the right amount of time etc.
Also, the whole 'you must be able to jump' to teach and not having any other way of getting a decent teaching qualification. Given that 95% of jumping is flatwork, why should someone have to prove themselves over a course of 2ft6/3ft/whatever when they're only concerned about flatwork?
DellaHorse
New User
Also I love how all BHS examiners are unfit, overweight and unattractive..they gotta get their kicks from somewhere. I want to say..honey you'll NEVER look good on a horse.
soulfull
Well-Known Member
Like a lot of you have said it has always been similar but I think it definitely is a money making scam!!!
This is the reason years ago I did the 1,2,3 courses but never bothered with the exams. I didn't need them for any reason but wanted the knowledge at the time.
A friend who backed, schooled naughty horses and was always the one people asked to get on theirs, failed stage 1 riding!! never right in a million years
This is the reason years ago I did the 1,2,3 courses but never bothered with the exams. I didn't need them for any reason but wanted the knowledge at the time.
A friend who backed, schooled naughty horses and was always the one people asked to get on theirs, failed stage 1 riding!! never right in a million years
TopTotty
Well-Known Member
I have to say I have read this thread and can see both sides. I have my BHSAI Int SM and my NVQ level three and my Certificate in Education. I failed my stage two riding once and failed my stage three riding four times (each on something different) before passing. I could have given up at this point but it made me more determined to pass. When I look back at some of my riding videos now I agree that I was probably not upto the level required although my instructor said I was.
I took the exams for myself so that I could learn more but they have now provided me with a livelyhood for which I am very grateful. I am constantly trying to improve my knowledge and my skills so I can pass them on to the clients that I teach.
I have five horses, two that I have bred and two that I compete at BE, BS and BD and I own a livery yard. The qualifications have helped with insurance for my business and have given many livery yard clients peace of mind.
I have also many years of experience in the horse world and having been yard manager at the Thoroughbred Rehabilitation Centre for seven years have gained invaluable experience dealing with highly strung horses that require sensitive riding and have dealt with a lot of injuries.
I think that there is always two side to every story and as has been shown on here people need to disagree as everyone has their own opinion. If your opinion is that strong then take it to someone who can do something about it. I am sure you will be helping a lot of people along the way.
I am proud of my qualifications as I know how hard I had to work to acheive them.
I took the exams for myself so that I could learn more but they have now provided me with a livelyhood for which I am very grateful. I am constantly trying to improve my knowledge and my skills so I can pass them on to the clients that I teach.
I have five horses, two that I have bred and two that I compete at BE, BS and BD and I own a livery yard. The qualifications have helped with insurance for my business and have given many livery yard clients peace of mind.
I have also many years of experience in the horse world and having been yard manager at the Thoroughbred Rehabilitation Centre for seven years have gained invaluable experience dealing with highly strung horses that require sensitive riding and have dealt with a lot of injuries.
I think that there is always two side to every story and as has been shown on here people need to disagree as everyone has their own opinion. If your opinion is that strong then take it to someone who can do something about it. I am sure you will be helping a lot of people along the way.
I am proud of my qualifications as I know how hard I had to work to acheive them.
misterjinglejay
Well-Known Member
I'm having to take my ridden stages at the moment (I qualified for my grooms cert years ago), but having been taught 'classical' dressage, am a bit concerned as to whether I can pass even stage 1.
The EC I work at is opening a riding school, and I have been offered the chance to teach there, if I can get my PTT (for starters), so I am following this thread with interest.
Echoing Katt, it would be useful to be able to judge how unbiased the OP is (or not!!!).
The EC I work at is opening a riding school, and I have been offered the chance to teach there, if I can get my PTT (for starters), so I am following this thread with interest.
Echoing Katt, it would be useful to be able to judge how unbiased the OP is (or not!!!).