Unfair Shows

Welsh And Crazy

Welsh And Crazy

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Just wondering if anyone has the same experiance as me when it comes to local shows, That is the same people winning all the time even though there are some better ponies and riders, Just because they know the judges :confused:
 
Yep. Thats showing tho unfortunately :( Its not just horses, seems to be the same in dogs etc too. I've found it a lot worse in M&M showing tho :confused:
 
All through showing - right from local shows to HOYS - it's all about who you know rarther than what you've got. You have to have something incredibly special to beat the pro's or the judges friends.
 
EKW said:
All through showing - right from local shows to HOYS - it's all about who you know rarther than what you've got. You have to have something incredibly special to beat the pro's or the judges friends.
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Im not someone who shows, but if this is the case, is it not a complete waste of time, effort, energy and money if your sunk before you even start ?
 
Oh it's not just you :rolleyes: I am waiting with interest to see how many entries our local (county) show gets next summer after the debacle this year :D I think this year's was the last straw for a lot of people ;)
 
This thread is why we have hardly done any shows this year. I am fed up of being beaten in First ridden by a pony who bucks its rider off - or in hand by something really dreadful who comes from the same yard as the judge etc etc. Fuel costs and entries are so high, I am thinking of not bothering at all next year!!
 
There is one local show we dont go to anymore, i took my coloured cob a few yers ago, he was clean and in good condition with good feet, he was unplaced, the winner had long cracked feet and was covered in muck stains they hadnt even bathed him. The owneres knew the judge.
 
sadly, with showing, your paying money for somebody else's opinion and their opinion might be to get an 'in' with certain studs or certain people. Our YO shows at big M&M places and can tell you who will win from the programme/judge combination, she's never wrong! Another of the liveries used to show lead rein/first ridden at a fairly high level. She often tells the tale of a friend of hers, desperate to qualify for HOYS, got one of the 'names' to lead her daughter. They got their HOYS ticket straight away!
 
packwood said:
This thread is why we have hardly done any shows this year. I am fed up of being beaten in First ridden by a pony who bucks its rider off - or in hand by something really dreadful who comes from the same yard as the judge etc etc. Fuel costs and entries are so high, I am thinking of not bothering at all next year!!
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No dont think im going to bother either ( and they wonder y the local shows are not getting support ) .
 
superted1989 said:
sadly, with showing, your paying money for somebody else's opinion and their opinion might be to get an 'in' with certain studs or certain people. Our YO shows at big M&M places and can tell you who will win from the programme/judge combination, she's never wrong! Another of the liveries used to show lead rein/first ridden at a fairly high level. She often tells the tale of a friend of hers, desperate to qualify for HOYS, got one of the 'names' to lead her daughter. They got their HOYS ticket straight away!
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I can well believe it i was onced placed down from a girl and the judge actually told me it was because she had owned her horse longer, whats that about?
 
The one I go too is fair. Who ever is the best, wins!
There's a mare who often wins prettiest mane and tail, who's kept at the yard where the shows are held. I'm sure others are jealous, but honestly, she does have the nicest mane and tail and they have earned it! She had nasty sweet itch and they've over come it.
 
I have judged at many local shows and will not judge anyone that I have given lessons to.
I love judging at small shows where many of the riders have not got a clue and cannot help but 'instruct' them on what to do.
One show where the numbers were way down due to bad weather I had one girl who was showing on the county circuit - she was there to give ring experience to a young show hunter. The rest of the class, about ten others were terrible in not knowing how to show a pony to the best of their ability so, with the first girl's parents permission, I had her show them what to do. The girls mother came into the ring with me and was also helping instruct - it was great and although most went out without a prize they were more than happy with what they had learnt.

Major shows it is a rule that judges may not judge any connections they have with either the ponies or riders.

I have shown in hand to a high level and was often highly placed, I was not a 'known' name so to beat many pro's was great. However, I watched them showing and noticed the little tricks they used. Saw how they always kept half an eye on the judge and took advantage of blind moments when the judge wasn't looking. I copied them to get the best from my horse and it worked.

It is all a matter of opinion. The judge might not like your stamp of horse and that is it.
 
Annielusian said:
The one I go too is fair. Who ever is the best, wins!
There's a mare who often wins prettiest mane and tail, who's kept at the yard where the shows are held. I'm sure others are jealous, but honestly, she does have the nicest mane and tail and they have earned it! She had nasty sweet itch and they've over come it.
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Good for them :)
Its nice when its fair
 
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I can see it from both sides, when I first got my pony she had just retired from international competing so was quite well known on the working hunter circuit. However we found that only putting her name down meant we were placed high to start and we always came high up even though my riding isn't the same as her ridden standard by a long shot. People were getting annoyed so we dont enter workers now.
 
thereaper said:
However we found that only putting her name down meant we were placed high to start
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It was almost the opposite with me and Ned. Non-local people would chuckle and whisper under their breath. Locals would cheer me on, since they know how tricky he is...well, I showed everyone when I got 2nd, twice! Hah!
That's the highest I've place in any horse show :D I've got 1st with my dog, but never a horse.

It's honestly shocked me! Even when one of our judges was judging her own son and daughter, she did it fairly and they placed exactly where they should have done.
 
Round here the local shows are excellent and the judges are really good and fair, and are always able to give their reasons as they go down the line.
 
I haven't really seen much of what people have been talking about at shows, there is one thing that does annoy me... when someone is late for the class, your already doing individual trot up and they are allowed to join half way through then go on and win. If I was a judge that would instantly lose points if someone didn't turn up to the class in time.
 
this is why i wont do showing!

I went to one show.... the judge tbh hadnt a clue, and i didnt think he was very fair anyhow.


too bitchy the world of showing tbh i will stick to jumping and dressage (jumping moreso for fairness as in clock..)! :)
 
Well I'm sorry but I enjoy showing, for the most part anyway.

We bought our little cob just for hacking. Tried a few local shows and the judges loved her and told us to try affiliated.

It was a huge steep learning curve, we would never have got anywhere without the wonderful advice we got from a showing forum. Our first affiliated show was the Great Yorkshire, madness in hindsight.

It was the start of a wonderful few years, going all over the country and meeting some great people. We dont do much now, but if we ever get our younger girl going properly we will try again.

We didn't always win and occasionally the judging was dire, but that the same in anything which depends on someone elses opinion.

I see a lot of people moaning on forums because they didn't win, often with pictures which show they really have no idea, just like us when we started. Its a bit like entering showjumping without finding out if the horse can jump.

If you have a decent horse, do your research, you have a chance. OK you will have a better chance if your horse is produced by a professional, but that probably applies to just about everything, its how they make their living.

I think one of the big problems is people see showing as an easy option if their horse wont do anything else, certainly at local level.
 
rockysmum said:
I see a lot of people moaning on forums because they didn't win, often with pictures which show they really have no idea, just like us when we started. Its a bit like entering showjumping without finding out if the horse can jump.
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Not to mention that everybody thinks their horse is the best!

I hear a lot of people come out of the ring b!tching because they didn't win and obviously the judge was wrong. But at the end of the day, the judge is wrong to everybody who doesn't get the red rosette (or blue if they're using blue for 1st place!). One person in particular this summer came out saying the judge was blind and their horse was stunning and they were wrong saying it had capped hocks. This was the second judge I know of to say it has (and when I looked, yes it does). At the end of the day showing is a beauty and manners competition (beauty moreso from my experience!) and one judge will love your horse, while another will hate it.
 
I went to a NFPS show and took my yearling into a Youngstock class, we came 2nd but a hogged, trace clipped youngster beat us. That amazed me considering they are supposed to be left natural. Funnily enough before the class i saw the owner and judge sharing a coffee together and looking rather friendly.

Was just proud of my boy for trotting up nicely.
 
We have had a very mixed time out showing - I have only ever done the ex racehorse classes and youngstock classes, but I used to work for a top cob producer so know a few things about it..

What the judge is looking for is sometimes a little hard to guess, but I will accept being beaten fairly. My babies all go to in hand shows to get used to the atmosphere, regardless of what they look like. I don't expact to win, but sometimes do have to question the judge's choice of winner... but isn't that just like dressage?

On the other hand showing one of my ex racehorses I forfeited 1st prize as it turned out that the horse actually had a random connection to the judge.
 
Its everywhere!! x I never joined the pony club when i was little - not sure why! but we'd go to there local shows....me and my pony were quite well known for winning and pony clubs used to always try to find a way of 'picking on me', i was called in the judging office after my round once because i tapped my pony on the shoulder....they said i wasnt allowed to do that before the bell rang! I'd end up first for the jump off in EVERY class, they wouldn't ring the bell for ages, hoping i'd go and then eliminate me......very wise to they're little tricks! Pathetic really as i was only 8-10 years old!! x

They'd let pony club members keep refusing jumps, or would put poles down so that the pony would jump it - good for the rider and experience to get your pony over the jump but they'd help one rider then not the next! x

We stopped going to a couple of shows because winning wasn't the same....was given evil looks and my parents even stood next to a judge who commented 'brilliant pony this one, watch out for it' and then after my round i was told off for cantering around for too long (waiting for their bell!!)

Winning and competing should be fun for anyone of any age. You will always get the good ponies and riders winning time and time again but sometimes they will try to get them 'eliminated' for some 'made up reason'.
 
miss_c said:
Not to mention that everybody thinks their horse is the best!

I hear a lot of people come out of the ring b!tching because they didn't win and obviously the judge was wrong. But at the end of the day, the judge is wrong to everybody who doesn't get the red rosette (or blue if they're using blue for 1st place!). One person in particular this summer came out saying the judge was blind and their horse was stunning and they were wrong saying it had capped hocks. This was the second judge I know of to say it has (and when I looked, yes it does). At the end of the day showing is a beauty and manners competition (beauty moreso from my experience!) and one judge will love your horse, while another will hate it.
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I found this more with ponies/M&M showing. Before the pony I had never shown so hadnt a clue - the judges and stewards were all very helpful for the most part but the other competitors were in general awful. I also found the judging to be much more predictable even for a newbie.
I also found that handlers telling blatent lies was more common - one yearling had about 11 first shows (later found out it was actually a 2yr old), another said her mare was pregnant coz she was so overweight it was disgusting... As I moved up to county level the competitors seemed nicer but the judges were worse - one told me to put 25kg at the minimum on to the pony (in weight) :eek: She was slim but by no means underweight!

When I started showing the horse I found it to be totally different. At the first show we won the chamionship and got through to the supreme. One of the girls came over to wish me luck - I never saw this happen in ponies. I also found teh judging to be much fairer and in general the competitors to be nicer. I don't know if its because as well as showing we all did other things with our horses whereas with ponies the majority of people showing them (myself included) were too heavy for them so restricted to inhand showing.
 
This reallly does happen everywhere, even though I think often people are just upset and jealous that they did not win.

My hate is when people jump in classes that are for people who have not been placed but they were seen winning the week before somewhere else!!

Quite often these people are children, so their parents have made them think its ok to cheat!

All i can say is that cheats never prosper!!!
 
Pls don't get me wrong. I didn't grow up in the UK/Ireland, and I never ever heard of showing before I got here. Anyway... What is the point of showing? I seriously have no clue what it is about, 'cos all I see is people riding around in circles, go large... I mean, why not just do dressage? Please do tell me...
 
tasel said:
Pls don't get me wrong. I didn't grow up in the UK/Ireland, and I never ever heard of showing before I got here. Anyway... What is the point of showing? I seriously have no clue what it is about, 'cos all I see is people riding around in circles, go large... I mean, why not just do dressage? Please do tell me...
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You sound like my dad!! My sister used it to first get her horse used to being out and about and to calm him down a bit (in-hand classes as well!) and now occasionally ventures out to RoR because her horse is a good-looking, well schooled and pleasant chap and it's nice to win a rosette for being a good example of something.

We saw the funniest 'other side' version of this sort of experience recently.

Al did an TARRA class on Reg. He went beautifully, was obedient and calm and went in a nice relaxed outline. Several other horses were bucking and only one other was working in an outline consistently. He won, and Al was complimented on him- the judges spent a while talking to her as she'd done an earlier class and hadn't presented him as well. The lady who came last heard all this, and later posted on facebook about blatant favouritism of the judges, etc!

You have to take it all with a pinch of salt as with any subjective judging. Al always says that showing is fun, but only if you win!
 
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