Unhousetrainable dog

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joop

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Are some dogs just un housetrain able?
I have a sixteen month year old collie cross shepherd and he just will not stay consistently clean.
I got him when he was a year old.
I have changed his food from bakers to Arden grange.
Split his food into breakfast and tea given him his tea no later than six.
This morning I get up to find he has pooed and weeed in the kitchen he had three walks yesterday one of which was two hours long! I took him out in the garden before bed and he had a wee at nine.
He is clean in a crate but I don't want a cage in my kitchen forever.
I don't know what else to do.
Any suggestions or do I have the only dog in the world that won't housetrain properly and I have to accept I will be cleaning **** up forever?
 
Dogs usually dump twice. Don't assume as most do that because he's ~performed~ he has finished his business!

An old trick to get a dog to poo is to roll up a small piece of paper into a small stick about the size of a match stick and insert it into his anus. The dog will try to poo to get rid of the irritation. Not many know that!:o

Feed once a day first thing in the morning. Dogs in Nature naturally gorge and then starve until the next kill so it is no hardship to have only one meal a day.

Withdraw water after midday.

Always be alert to the signs of the dog wanting to poo or wee which usually include sniffing around for a suitable spot. Then get them outside quick! Lots of praise as he's doing it.

My GSD pup house trained in 48 hours. It is actually not that difficult to train a dog to dump on command. I kid you not!:D
 
Dry Rot said:
.......

An old trick to get a dog to poo is to roll up a small piece of paper into a small stick about the size of a match stick and insert it into his anus. The dog will try to poo to get rid of the irritation. Not many know that!:o

.......
Click to expand...

A wet match stick (put it in your mouth, BEFORE insertion!) has the same effect! We used to use it on greyhounds, just before they raced. They will empty themselves.

At 16 months of age, I'd have him on one feed a day, and that in the morning. It will give the dog the equivalent of the night, but during the day, if you see what I mean.

Alec.
 
The problem with giving him all of his food in the morning is that I am at work all day normally starting at six. I walk him before work normally around half four quarter to five then my neighbour pops in a few times in the day to let him in the garden for a wee and I'm often not home till half five sixish and wonder if I feed him all his food in one go in the morning whether I will have the same problem just in the day time?
 
you really have to work at this to break the cycle and for now, that means him saying in the cage overnight. You need to be there to let him out when he needs to go and overnight you arent so he isnt learning to hold on as he thinks he can eliminate in the kitchen. Was the area he has soiled with a solution of biological washing powder and concentrate on getting him 100% clean through the day and use the crate at night.. You need to to establish a toilet routine... do you use a toileting word? I use ‘be quick’. Initally repeat it as the dog is going, then praise them. Eventually saying ‘be quick’ will help to stimulate them to go by association. 2 meals a day = 2 poops. (or should)unless your dog is getting treats and eating things he shouldnt out on walks, if he is id knock that on the head as it wont help. Also, make sure you arent feeding too much, espec of Arden grange, you dont need to feed a lot - which one is he on? A 2 hour walk in the middle of the day isnt going to help either way. For example. My dogs are all let out first thing and poo. They dont come back in until they have. They then have breakfast. They then all, very predictably have a 2nd poo after their tea at 6pm, which means last thing at night is just out for a quick wee. This takes a while to establish but the key is to manage the situation so they cannot fail for the few weeks - does that make sense? Good luck.
 
16 months those breeds combinations he'll still be growing keep the split foods just feed slightly earlier. Never take water away. I have never stuck a matchstick anywhere :eek: but you can teach a keyword which is simple to do, when he goes to the loo repeat the word you want to use so that he associates it with going to the loo and praise when he does.

I usually take my fosters running if they are the sort to poo in the house normally its because of what they are used to at that age you just need to retrain. If the crate is working for now use it to break the habit and then start again with regular toilet breaks.

Make sure you have cleaned properly so there isn't a favorite smelly spot.
 
withdraw water from midday ? are you serious ?
you shove things up your dogs arse and it has no water from midday , god bet your dogs happy :{
 
joop said:
The problem with giving him all of his food in the morning is that I am at work all day normally starting at six. I walk him before work normally around half four quarter to five then my neighbour pops in a few times in the day to let him in the garden for a wee and I'm often not home till half five sixish and wonder if I feed him all his food in one go in the morning whether I will have the same problem just in the day time?
Click to expand...

this isn’t going to help - youre going to struggle simply because you aren’t there with the dog to put the work in. Havnig a dog walker or someone letting the dog out is ok for an established trained dog but not ideal in your situation i dont think
 
have to agree with neversaynever can you get a dog walker in for a few weeks? I know its a cost but those extra walks will help in the long run especially now the nights have closed in. Shame its not summer really you'd have more time to sort this out and get a good routine in.
 
horseloaner said:
have to agree with neversaynever can you get a dog walker in for a few weeks? I know its a cost but those extra walks will help in the long run especially now the nights have closed in. Shame its not summer really you'd have more time to sort this out and get a good routine in.
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what i mean is a dog walker is great but not in this situation... to get this sorted the dog needs someone in the house to train him; let him out regularly and reward; catch him before he makes a mistake. I can see how the OP is in a difficult situation though as if you cant be there Im not sure what to suggest...
 
He is clean in the daytime and he is always clean in a crate. He sneaks downstairs in the night and will poo in the kitchen then.
He is walked for a good half an hour before work and an hour after work.
He is on chicken and rice Arden grange.
The whole u work so u shouldn't have a dog attitude is why I hesitated before asking for advice! Most dog owners have to work!!
 
I had a little Westie many years back ... before the days of crates ... from a kennels. I was her 3rd owner and she was 18 months.
She was an absolute devil for soiling in the house :(.
I ended up fitting a dog flap so she could come and go when she was about 5 ... it took me that long to get fed up with her ;). It worked though.
I appreciate that's not a solution for everybody though :)

ETS: I would not withdraw water, especially from a dry fed dog
 
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Hi joop I am not an expert at all but I can tell you what worked with our dog. I got him as a rescue and because he had been in kennels for a year he had become accustomed to going to the toilet indoors and wouldn't go outside at all, in fact he was scared to go to the loo in front of people. I bought a piece of lino and left him in our study room in his basket overnight so if there was an accident it wasn't too much of an issue. I did the things you are doing, eg splitting meals etc. and lots of walks but I also walked him last thing at night rather than just letting him in the garden. So a good 20 mins walk with lots of opportunities to go for a poo and lots of praise when he did it. I also got up at 5.30 and took him again for a walk, rather than just letting him out. This meant he had more time to do more business and with him he could find a hiding place until he got over his shyness!

It was quite hard work and it went on for about 3 weeks but once it clicked to him he's never once done anything in the house since. He now just goes for a wee in the garden at 10 ish and comes to do the horses with me at 7.30 ish, and goes then when he's had his brekkie, so pretty normal really :) Good luck, I'm sure you'll get there soon.
 
I would love to fit a dog flap but as I'm in rented accommodation I won't be allowed.
Just gonna have to try walking him until he poos
 
no one is saying you shouldnt have a dog because you work, not at all. Im just saying to establish the routine I explained, it would be easier if you were in the house. Trying to help, hope it works out for you.
 
joop said:
He is clean in the daytime and he is always clean in a crate. He sneaks downstairs in the night and will poo in the kitchen then.
He is walked for a good half an hour before work and an hour after work.
He is on chicken and rice Arden grange.
The whole u work so u shouldn't have a dog attitude is why I hesitated before asking for advice! Most dog owners have to work!!
Click to expand...

can you crate at night? given that is clean in crate? I don't have a dog but that just seemed poss logical to me!
 
i am shocked that anyone suggests poking things up your dogs rear end:eek: potentialy you could damage muscles and have a dog that has no bowel control and that wont help, also restricting the water causes the bladder to shrink actually meaning your dogs ability to hold urine reduces, it can also damage the live creating incontinance especially in a dog fed on dry food.

you know your dog can hold it overnight as he does when crated-make your life easy and just crate the dog-it sounds like your dog feels the kitchen is and ok place to relive himself you need to break that cycle so crate overnight put lead on take out to 'be clean' lots of praise buy a product designed for cleaning up after dogs to effectively remove any odour left from the last deposit, create routine to fit in with your life after three months try again without the crate
 
jools1234 said:
i am shocked that anyone suggests poking things up your dogs rear end:eek: potentialy you could damage muscles and have a dog that has no bowel control and that wont help, .......
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You quite obviously know more than those who kept and trained dogs, before either you or I, were born. ;)

The lightable end of a match, if it's inserted first, and with care, into a dog's rectum, will have the same affect as a dog which has straw which is working it's way through. It will encourage defecation.

Were you to listen to those who kept dogs, and probably before you were born, you may just learn.

Alec.
 
joop said:
He is clean in the daytime and he is always clean in a crate. He sneaks downstairs in the night and will poo in the kitchen then.
He is walked for a good half an hour before work and an hour after work.
He is on chicken and rice Arden grange.
The whole u work so u shouldn't have a dog attitude is why I hesitated before asking for advice! Most dog owners have to work!!
Click to expand...

To be fair, I don't think anyone is saying that, they are only saying that, realistically, you are only awake and with the dog for a tiny portion of the day so it's quite hard for people to make suggestions because the normal way of training this would be to allow the dog the option of going out more often/when he needs to.

One of mine was born in a barn (literally) so was not housetrained as a puppy and also has an aversion to going out if the weather is at all bad. He was a real pain to train because, if the weather was awful, he even give you a clue if he needed to go, he'd just wait until we were asleep or otherwise occupied. He's also very shy and never really has got the hang of going on the lead or even with someone watching. The trick with him was to always do the same walk initially and get him into a routine of going at a specific place, more or less of his choice. When we had that down I sometimes, if I was in a hurry, went straight to that place and let him off to go. I always did find, though, if I walked him too early in the evening I was running a risk, which is no fun in the winter but it's not his fault he can't use the indoor facilities. ;) If he's had a stressful day I also had to be careful as then he'd get clingy and not want to go out in the garden at night. He had a very specific place he'd go to do it and for a long time we limited his movements at night, just in case. He now is the world record holder though, having voluntarily gone 22 hours without leaving the house in bad weather! More normally he can certainly do 12+ but if it's much more than that I know he has to go immediately when we get out so we go straight to his "spot".

The second dog was kept in horrid conditions as a puppy, locked in a room with her mother and siblings and never allowed out, so obviously not housetrained. She was overall better than the dog as she's just got more sense (or less, depending on your perspective) but could not mimic his routine immediately so had to have many more trips outside. She doesn't have the best stomach so if she's eaten something that doesn't agree with her (can be as simple as someone slipping her a treat in the park) she might need to go in the night and I get up and let her out. Because it's not her usual pattern I know she only asks if she needs to and I'd MUCH rather get up than let her think it's acceptable to go in the house if she's desperate.

All of which is not much help to you but can you try doing a bit more with him last thing? Perhaps a game or a short run to stimulate him a bit? Mine can easily cope now with two, maybe three trips out in a day but it's taken some time to get to that point.
 
I withold water rather than withdraw it, I don't leave a huge amount of water out, just enough to cover the bottom of the bowl overnight.

If the dog is clean in the crate, I would just keep using the crate TBH. Mine overnights in an aircraft crate (he has a soft furnishings fetish :p) and it has just become part of the furniture.

Or kennel him.
 
No read all replies, a few questions?

Its only at night?
You say "he comes down" does this mean he sleeps on the landing in a room upstairs?
Obs you don't hear him going down stairs?
How long has he been passing in the night downstairs?
What kind of surface is the floor he defecates on and is it always in the same spot and is it just faeces or urine aswell and is it every night?

To the original question, I have never had an issue training a dog, routines can always be mastered and created to suit each individual dog I have had to work with and with limited time as they have to go off to new homes:)
 
Alec Swan said:
You quite obviously know more than those who kept and trained dogs, before either you or I, were born. ;)

The lightable end of a match, if it's inserted first, and with care, into a dog's rectum, will have the same affect as a dog which has straw which is working it's way through. It will encourage defecation.

Were you to listen to those who kept dogs, and probably before you were born, you may just learn.

Alec.
Click to expand...

Alec, It was on the tip of my tongue to say something similar, but why bother?

I can't imagine how the Australian dingoes manage without water available 24/7.:eek:
 
He sleeps upstairs in my bedroom in his bed in the hope I will hear him going downstairs so I will be able to let him out.
He goes on the kitchen lino floor that I clean with both bleach and washing powder afterwards.
I got him in may and crated him at night and when he was left.
About six weeks ago I did away with the crate and gave him the kitchen with a stair gate on. He was clean both day and night for 3 weeks.
Then started messing in the night so I put him back in the crate. Tried again after a week but he started again so back in the crate.
And here we are now i let him sleep in my room so I can hear him and most the last three nights before this one was all ok. But this morning I woke at four and he wasn't there so I went downstairs to check him and there was a poo and a wee in the kitchen.
Today he had his last meal at four. Went with me to do horses at five no poo. Walked him on the way back for half an hour still no poo. Just been out again for fifteen minutes and still no poo. So I have taken his ball out and played ball on the village green for ten minutes to see if that gets things moving but still no poo!!!
I don't want to crate a dog forever I want him to be part of the family and my kitchen is just not big enough for a crate long term.
I am trying everything. I say busy busy everytime he does have a poo to try and teach him to go when I say that and I praise him everytime.
 
is there any reason you cant shut him in the bedroom with you?... my advice is do not let him go to bed tonight if he hasnt pooed. That may mean being outside for a considerable time. But every night the amount of time will decrease.
 
I could shut him in the bedroom but don't u think he will just go in there instead?
I have just taken him to his poo area in the garden and still he won't go.
 
I agree (close the door) to the bedroom (it's always the simplest of things that work) or are definately worth a try, this way you may actually get him whinging and pacing if he really needs to go and you can then let him out.
Close the door and contain him within and darken the room as much as possible.
He obs does not want to pass where he sleeps so he is using downstairs as a toilet. Close the door out of interest and see what happens.
Also crates are not forever tools, but at 16 months he is still a pup and obs thrives more on the crate routine and it keeps bad habits forming whilst he is not yet ready and I ideally advise people not to out phase the crate till the dog is well over 2 years.
 
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