Unintentionally driving horse with my seat, making him rush!?

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c.h.i.a.r.a

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Hi Everyone:)
Have recently been having a bit of an issue with my seat. My horse and I have jumped up to 1.30m ish courses and been fine, (pls no suggestions that we aren't capable of this height harry meade has said we both are). I have always struggled a tiny bit with not driving him to the fence as he is super sensitive and the slightest shift will make him shoot off but I usually stay in just a very light seat or half seat and we're fine. Every time I try to sit in the saddle, about three strides out my teacher says he can see me driving with my seat even if only slightly like I said my horse is sensitive so he just starts charging. Tried to make the canter bigger coming in so me/the horse wouldn't feel the need to rush, but he's made it into a habit very quickly and even when I am not driving or my teacher gets on he starts rushing. My natural reaction when he starts rushing is to hold him and make him wait but if you have any kind of resistance in the rein he just gets stronger. I find it hard when he takes off to not make him wait, so my teacher got me to let go of the reins and hold the neck ring when we were coming towards a jump but it just resulted in him galloping into the fence at an impossible speed. Then he said I could use my reins as it was clearly just making it worse. It's not that my teacher doesn't know what he's doing, he's very experienced. Although we have been working on it and he has been getting a better I would love any advice from someone who may have a similar problem with quite a sensitive horse on how to keep myself from driving with my seat and generally how to keep him from rushing. Have tried most things that usually work to no success. Know this is a very specific case so thanks so much in advance for any kind of help at all:)
 
Have you tried stiffening your core 'holding' him with your body instead of your reins? You can try this in walk, you will find you can speed up and slow down your horse without using your handss
 
My daughter had exactly this problem for a while. You get into a sort of feedback loop. The horse feels the need to rush to save himself, you hold him back because he's going too fast, but that makes him uncomfortable so he needs to rush more. You loose confidence in him and then he looses confidence in you and it all becomes a nasty circle. We found a mixed economy worked best.

As Tiaan has said you need to develop your ability to hold him with your seat and body and not the reins. Partly through flat work, we did a lot of bareback work as well - but not all horses like this. If you have the capacity to do it look at a closer contact saddle, see if that helps improve connection. Also a driving seat usually results from a slightly too far forward leg position so lots of work standing in stirrups and without stirrups so you can correct that and not inadvertently re-start the cycle.

Look at what bit / bridle you are using. Can you drop down several steps to something more mild? We dropped from a waterford gag and grakle to a myler combi, initially thinking to go bitless, although that wasn't necessary in the end. Make what rein aids you need to give very soft - like you are whispering to him. The softer you are the softer and more receptive he will be.

Work loads on getting him to trust you again. Part of that is letting him choose his approach - which is going to mean you dropping down several heights so this is safe. Work on not interfering with him. Lots of grid work, raised pole work, place poles etc. Show him how to find his own approach and that you won't mess with what he thinks. He's going to hit a lot to begin with - and don't do it on fixed fences! - but he will work it out if you give him the chance. This whole thing needs to feel like a partnership. he needs to find his own space and place - you have to get him there.

It takes time I'm afraid -I think we lost most of a whole season to sorting this. And you have to keep on top of it so things don't slip back.
 
Shay said:
My daughter had exactly this problem for a while. You get into a sort of feedback loop. The horse feels the need to rush to save himself, you hold him back because he's going too fast, but that makes him uncomfortable so he needs to rush more. You loose confidence in him and then he looses confidence in you and it all becomes a nasty circle. We found a mixed economy worked best.

As Tiaan has said you need to develop your ability to hold him with your seat and body and not the reins. Partly through flat work, we did a lot of bareback work as well - but not all horses like this. If you have the capacity to do it look at a closer contact saddle, see if that helps improve connection. Also a driving seat usually results from a slightly too far forward leg position so lots of work standing in stirrups and without stirrups so you can correct that and not inadvertently re-start the cycle.

Look at what bit / bridle you are using. Can you drop down several steps to something more mild? We dropped from a waterford gag and grakle to a myler combi, initially thinking to go bitless, although that wasn't necessary in the end. Make what rein aids you need to give very soft - like you are whispering to him. The softer you are the softer and more receptive he will be.

Work loads on getting him to trust you again. Part of that is letting him choose his approach - which is going to mean you dropping down several heights so this is safe. Work on not interfering with him. Lots of grid work, raised pole work, place poles etc. Show him how to find his own approach and that you won't mess with what he thinks. He's going to hit a lot to begin with - and don't do it on fixed fences! - but he will work it out if you give him the chance. This whole thing needs to feel like a partnership. he needs to find his own space and place - you have to get him there.

It takes time I'm afraid -I think we lost most of a whole season to sorting this. And you have to keep on top of it so things don't slip back.
Click to expand...

Agree with this and I know you said you have tried it but do work on the right / big canter, if you throttle him / the canter he will not be able to jump and then rush to compensate. I would do some work on canter poles until you can maintain the right canter to poles and then look at jumps again, try two 21-23 human strides apart and see if you can keep the same rhythm to them, 5 strides through them and away.
 
I watched a Mark Phillips demo once and a girl with the same problem was told to stay in light seat and never sit down in the saddle. The horse stayed round and jumped beautifully. I was having the same problem myself, with a horse who refused if I pushed, so I took a very close light seat on him and he stopped refusing.

I was competing two at the time, one who refused if I stood and one who refused if I sat. It may work with yours, worth a try maybe. I used to repeat a mantra to the rhythm as I rode 'stay over your feet, don't sit down'.
 
a fun exercise with two horses is to set up 3 small popping fences in a row, you go round once, then lose the stirrups then lose reins and stirrups, it makes you concentrate and gives you both confidence, with a reasonably steady horse in front he should relax .
 
I would hack in jumping position and practise putting you seat in neutral when you are driving it's likely you tilt your pelvis back .
Work with your short stirrups to refine your skills when hack to increase you ability to keep your pelvis upright by using your core .
My best ever horse was like yours if you drove with your seat however lightly she was off she also did not accept the leg well so the temptation was to ride with the leg off her we worked to get her accepting the leg round her better which meant we where in a better place generally .
Because it was easier to feel her between my hand and my leg .
 
i've one i've to stay in a light seat for fulltime over jumps, solved the rushing/driving issues we were having
 
Tiaan said:
Have you tried stiffening your core 'holding' him with your body instead of your reins? You can try this in walk, you will find you can speed up and slow down your horse without using your handss
Click to expand...

No that's interesting never heard that before! Will definitely try this thank you:)
 
ycbm said:
I watched a Mark Phillips demo once and a girl with the same problem was told to stay in light seat and never sit down in the saddle. The horse stayed round and jumped beautifully. I was having the same problem myself, with a horse who refused if I pushed, so I took a very close light seat on him and he stopped refusing.

I was competing two at the time, one who refused if I stood and one who refused if I sat. It may work with yours, worth a try maybe. I used to repeat a mantra to the rhythm as I rode 'stay over your feet, don't sit down'.
Click to expand...

Okay I'll give it a go thanks:)
 
Shay said:
My daughter had exactly this problem for a while. You get into a sort of feedback loop. The horse feels the need to rush to save himself, you hold him back because he's going too fast, but that makes him uncomfortable so he needs to rush more. You loose confidence in him and then he looses confidence in you and it all becomes a nasty circle. We found a mixed economy worked best.

As Tiaan has said you need to develop your ability to hold him with your seat and body and not the reins. Partly through flat work, we did a lot of bareback work as well - but not all horses like this. If you have the capacity to do it look at a closer contact saddle, see if that helps improve connection. Also a driving seat usually results from a slightly too far forward leg position so lots of work standing in stirrups and without stirrups so you can correct that and not inadvertently re-start the cycle.

Look at what bit / bridle you are using. Can you drop down several steps to something more mild? We dropped from a waterford gag and grakle to a myler combi, initially thinking to go bitless, although that wasn't necessary in the end. Make what rein aids you need to give very soft - like you are whispering to him. The softer you are the softer and more receptive he will be.

Work loads on getting him to trust you again. Part of that is letting him choose his approach - which is going to mean you dropping down several heights so this is safe. Work on not interfering with him. Lots of grid work, raised pole work, place poles etc. Show him how to find his own approach and that you won't mess with what he thinks. He's going to hit a lot to begin with - and don't do it on fixed fences! - but he will work it out if you give him the chance. This whole thing needs to feel like a partnership. he needs to find his own space and place - you have to get him there.

It takes time I'm afraid -I think we lost most of a whole season to sorting this. And you have to keep on top of it so things don't slip back.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I have found too that it does become quite a vicious cycle. I always did a lot of bareback work with my connemara eventing pony (who heartbreakingly passed away two weeks ago at only 17:(((() and did some with Concerto (horse in question) too, also jumped bareback which he didn't love too much haha. Will definitely do more work without stirrups though! We have him in a grackle jumping but that may be worth having a think about. Another complication, being a very hot horse gridwork just winds him up and I've been advised not to do it!! But I find that raised poles and things work quite well. Bit frustrating as being a new combo we were doing so well and had some great successes over the winter and now this problem has raised just before the eventing season starts. But of course as with any new horse there will be bumps in the road and this is probably something I will always have a bit of an issue with but we just have to be patient and find what works for us. Thanks so much again!!
 
Goldenstar said:
I would hack in jumping position and practise putting you seat in neutral when you are driving it's likely you tilt your pelvis back .
Work with your short stirrups to refine your skills when hack to increase you ability to keep your pelvis upright by using your core .
My best ever horse was like yours if you drove with your seat however lightly she was off she also did not accept the leg well so the temptation was to ride with the leg off her we worked to get her accepting the leg round her better which meant we where in a better place generally .
Because it was easier to feel her between my hand and my leg .
Click to expand...

That's a great suggestion thank you:) Yes haha well the best ones are always the sensitive ones that tend to take more time and patience!
 
Bonkers2 said:
a fun exercise with two horses is to set up 3 small popping fences in a row, you go round once, then lose the stirrups then lose reins and stirrups, it makes you concentrate and gives you both confidence, with a reasonably steady horse in front he should relax .
Click to expand...


Thanks i'll be sure to try this:)
 
Another good exercise is to put 2 poles out down the long side at K and H, then alternate how many canter strides you get between the poles. For example first time round you get 8 strides, then 6, then 10 etc.
 
I don't jump anyway near the heights you do I jump up to 1m05 with my TB but he is a very hot horse to jump. Any shift in seat can cause him to surge, take out stride, over jump or get far too close and then burst into excitable bucks! It was becoming far too hair raising.
I found I was killing the canter and it was making him worse. I would be hauling on his snaffle and he would totally ignore me.
I tried light seat, holding neckstrap not his mouth, exercises ect ect. He would jump a fence on a circle, grid, stop in a straight line just with my seat quiet as you like but the moment we tried anything like a course, his adrenaline would rise and over each fence get worse and worse again. I'm 8st and he's 16.1, the jumps are so in his comfort zone they didn't back him off. A light seat was the worst he would stick his head down and pull me forwards. I like sitting as I felt I could control his canter better like that and feel what impulsive we need (as long as I sit still).
The key to us was bitting. I realized he needs a curb action to give me control of his jaw and poll. That was key. The first time I had the Kimble wick in he went to charge off on a related distance, I checked him and he nearly sat down. It gave me his respect again. Now I can really get him moving knowing I have full control of the front end. I barely use any hand at all now, I can ride with a loose rein. I have found he loves a really quick canter, and in this bit I have the confidence to give it to him. If he gets a bit carried away one check and he's back in rythm. I know it seems strange that a harsher bit has enabled him to be more forwards and stop rushing but it has. From his respect came confidence and we won tons. I don't use it all the time. Generally he's not a strong horse, he has a very light mouth and he schools and hacks lovely in a snaffle. I also jump in a 2 ring elevator if I feel he is backing off the Kimble wick. I swap at home but at shows especially beginning of the season I use the Kimble wick, our secret weapon. I hope you figure out what works for your horse, they are all such individuals!
 
ycbm said:
I watched a Mark Phillips demo once and a girl with the same problem was told to stay in light seat and never sit down in the saddle. The horse stayed round and jumped beautifully. I was having the same problem myself, with a horse who refused if I pushed, so I took a very close light seat on him and he stopped refusing.

I was competing two at the time, one who refused if I stood and one who refused if I sat. It may work with yours, worth a try maybe. I used to repeat a mantra to the rhythm as I rode 'stay over your feet, don't sit down'.
Click to expand...

You saved me having to type a reply! Agree totally with your post.
 
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