Unknowingly bought my Mare in foal; What recourse is available

The same happened to me a few years back. Luckily, we wanted to keep the foal, even though we were annoyed we had not been told that ''a stallion had broken into her field for a night''! until after.

Good luck, but I'm not sure you have any comeback on this one.... the seller has been pretty good to offer a refund or to take the mare back.
 
The exact same thing has just happend to me i got my mare in september and she had her foal two months ago, im afraid you dont have a leg to stand on
it will cost you far more in legal fee's 'when' you lose than looking after a foal will ever cost
it cost me £95 for my mare and foal fully checked and tetnus etc the day the foal was born and since the foal has cost me nothing
the courts will say you should of got her tested when you bought her, if like me you get a decent foal, it will cover the costs of its time with you when (if) you sell it
but, you get attached to them, im certainly not selling mine :p
 
Im sure in the eyes of the law, as you have been offered your money back and they've said they'll have the mare you don't have a leg to stand on.

Either give her back or get on with it. Your costs will be covered once sold (unless there's complications during labour). I also agree that mares are a lot quieter when pregnant. It's also probable that the dealer didn't know she was pregnant - you took the risk by not having a vetting.
 
Exact same thing happened to me bought a mare from a dealer who had her imported from ireland a month earlier. We got her and a few months in found out she was in foal, when we contacted the dealer he offerd us our money back or another horse but as in your case the mare was exactley what we wanted so we said we wanted to keep her. The dealer then offerd to take her back untill the foal was weaned and give us a horse in the meantime which we also decided we didnt want to do he then said once the foal was born he would buy it back off us. In the end a friend took the foal and i had the mare for 11 years i guess i was very lucky with this dealer and he wouldnt have known she was in foal as she was bought through a sales i wouldnt expect this treatment if i found myself in this situation again
 
soulfull said:
Echo this.

Sorry but for goodness sake the horse has not been found out to have some degenerative disease that was hidden from you!! It was not something he could have known so not deliberate.
It has been happening forever and will continue to do so.

The whole society we are in for suing people over everything is horrid and it is what is causing silly insurance prices and a lot of horsey places to go out of business

Please just either take his offer of money back or welcome the foal and go from there
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agreed!
 
classicalfan said:
Good luck! Yes, it is a very common occurrence, particularly with horses from Ireland - I can give you a dozen examples. But by the time you have paid legal fees, had all the stress and the hassle of fighting it out, you may find it would have been cheaper just to swallow the fact that she is going to have a foal and sell the foal at weaning to try and recover some of the costs.
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Ditto this. The seller has offered you a refund - I think that is extremely fair. They were probably unaware also that she was in foal. imo you can't ask for compensation here. Maybe you should have had her vetted?
 
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jondaro said:
My issue is not with the mare, it is around the actual cost that has been and will be incurred owing to the mare being in foal; All we will seek will be the directly incurred costs, which if the dealer had either taken the mare back or not sold the mare before it was apparent that she was in foal, would nevertheless have been incurred. Given that the seller is a dealer, surely they would be in a far better position to recoup the expense if they took the foal back once weaned. Added to that, surely there are moral arguments towards a dealer having knowledge of what they are selling or accepting some responsibility when an event such as this occurs.
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The moral arguement is null and void, as the dealer has offered to take the mare back and refund.

What costs are you expecting? Assuming the mare is in decent condition she will only need extra feed towards the end of pregnancy and when she is producing milk, and assuming a straight forward birth the vets fees for that should be negligible - certainly nothing like what you will be able to sell the foal for. Seems to be you want to have your cake and eat it, and make a profit out of the whole thing by reclaiming the costs and then having a foal to keep or sell at the end of it - not cool.

Echo Bravo said:
Let the dealer take her back and buy a gelding, simples
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;)

Foxhunter49 said:
Caveat emptor = buyer beware!


Assuming that you had the mare vetted then the vet should have noticed if she was showing signs of being pregnant. As he obviously didn't, and not all mares do show until later in pregnancy, then perhaps you should be suing him for being negligent in not examining the mare for pregnancy?

I do not think you have a leg to stand on - solicitors will take your money just because they can.
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Its not caveat emptor when buying from a dealer though, so the dealer is right to offer to take the horse back and refund. I think the OP is on very poor ground legally if he/she refuses this and demands a different deal.

The vetting probably won't take into account checking pregnancy - as far as I understand it, it is very difficult and counterproductive to check if a mare is in foal during mid pregnancy.
 
You bought a mare, surely this is one of the eventualities that you prepare for of the horse is not vetted? If you did have it vetted maybe you could take it up with a vet rather than a dealer?

But if im honest, id love a foal for free and yes theyre expensive to start but i can tell you for damn sure i would have preferred my mare to come to me pregnant rather than lame!!!

Worse things have happened!!!
 
I feel for you. And I agree with others who have said that you should take the offer of your money back, or a replacement horse. At worst, you will face a few months of not being able to ride this horse, so, if she was bought for hunting, then I guess you could ask for the money to have a hireling in her place. Also it could be argued that you will need a more specialised livery for her, as many livery yards are not set up for mares and foals. My worry would be, what happens if you lose her foaling - which does happen. You did not bargain for that risk when you bought the mare.
 
I bought a pony who also turned out to be in foal, the man I bought her off was a small dealer and the brother of the man I worked for, he had no idea the mare was in foal.
I loved the experance of them couple of weeks knowing there was a little foal growing inside as it happens the stable next door to me bought a sec a, which was my ponys breed from the sales who also was a 2 for 1 :D.
Both mares foaled within days of each other and that experance of coming down to find another little foalie and all that went with it was amazing.
Ikept the fillie for 2 years and sold her to the YO, were she still remains.
Either take the dealers offer up or just get on with it and stop moaning believe me its worth it and I loved the fact I didnt have to wait the 11 months for the new arrival :D. Am far to impatient for that.
 
I just hope that you can manage to adjust your attitude once foaly born (and if you can't then please send back the mare).

The market for foals is really pretty non existent.

Having a lovely mare foaling though is pretty dammed priceless IMO.

Get a grip
 
If you don't want the dealer to take the horse back then you can't be choosy! You should be able to sell the foal at weaning for the miney it will have cost you to raise it to 6months - look at it this way - you've not had to pay a stud fee!

This was the outcome of our surprise foal - Friend bought a mare from a dealer and it was overweight so she was dieting it but it didn't lose weight. She had the vet in and he examined her and declared her in foal. The foal was stunning and a grew into a lovely horse that was sold to America as a three year old.

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We bought a mare unknowingly in foal from a dealer.

We were given a couple of choices:

1) keep the mare and foal and pay for all the costs ourselves, and keep the foal at the end of it.

2) return the mare for a replacement/refund

3) send the mare back to foal with the dealers (all costs covered by the dealer) and have mare back once she's weaned. Dealer kept the foal.

4) send mareback to foal at dealers (all costs covered by dealer) and in the meantime have a replacement horse. Once the foal was weaned we could choose between keeping the new horse and the orginal mare. Dealer kept the foal.

5) send mareback to foal at dealers. WE paid extra costs but could have the mare and foal after weaning. We could have a replacement horse in the meantime if we wished.

We didn't have facilities to have a foal, nor did we really want weanling so we went for option 4. We got a nice replacement but after weaning took the orginal mare back (not as talented but quieter and more gentle than the replacement). Dealer kept the very nice big coloured foal.


You are not going to get money out of the dealers when they have offered you a full refund. You can't have it both ways. You either treat her like a 'cut and shut car' and force the money issues (in which case you have not a leg to stand on with the 'we're attatched to her' track) or you accept she's a horse and you're attatched to her and therefore money is not the issue.

If you don't have the money or experience to deal with a foal I suggest you ask for something similar to our arrangement and send the mare back to foal and wean with the dealer then have her back afterwards. You may even get a replacement if you're lucky.
 
BigRed said:
I feel for you. And I agree with others who have said that you should take the offer of your money back, or a replacement horse. At worst, you will face a few months of not being able to ride this horse, so, if she was bought for hunting, then I guess you could ask for the money to have a hireling in her place. Also it could be argued that you will need a more specialised livery for her, as many livery yards are not set up for mares and foals. My worry would be, what happens if you lose her foaling - which does happen. You did not bargain for that risk when you bought the mare.
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Valid points. Also if you keep the foal, you will have extra livery fees when the foal is weaned. Plus the costs of training, unless you really know what you're doing. There would be quite an outlay before the foal would be worth much.

scarymare said:
I just hope that you can manage to adjust your attitude once foaly born (and if you can't then please send back the mare).

The market for foals is really pretty non existent.

Having a lovely mare foaling though is pretty dammed priceless IMO.

Get a grip
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Lots of attitude in this post too!


I do, overall, agree with the majority that if the dealer has offered to take the mare back and swap her, then the dealer has been fair.

Look at the situation from the other side...

Last year I sent my mare to stud. The vet's swabs and checks before she went were over £100, livery was £5/day grass livery, and the stud fee was nearly £500. Thats over £1000 to get the mare in foal (and mine didn't even take!) That is what you have got for free...

Out of interest do you know what she is in foal to?
 
Honey08 said:
Valid points. Also if you keep the foal, you will have extra livery fees when the foal is weaned. Plus the costs of training, unless you really know what you're doing. There would be quite an outlay before the foal would be worth much.

Last year I sent my mare to stud. The vet's swabs and checks before she went were over £100, livery was £5/day grass livery, and the stud fee was nearly £500. Thats over £1000 to get the mare in foal (and mine didn't even take!) That is what you have got for free...

Out of interest do you know what she is in foal to?
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After reading the various comments and slept on this, and having spoken with a solicitor who has expertise on the simple principle of the matter, I am even more persuaded that there is a case to be answered and will persue a case against the dealer under the Sale of Goods act. The mare is to all extents 'fit for purpose' as originally advertised and claimed to be by the dealer, therefore returning the mare for my money back is not in fact a remedy; So the legal issue is around the costs incurred by her being in foal. According to the solicitor, the claim is based on 'Damages in liue of recission', with only the actual costs that have been directly incurred being sought (approx £700), these costs would have had to been borne by the dealer had they not sold the mare in the first place. My offer as part of my proposed settlement to give the foal back to the dealer apparently will have added weighting, given that specifically as part of their 'trade', a horse dealer/trader is in a much better position to recover their costs paid out.

I must say that I find this wholly unacceptable that horse dealers seemingly have no responsibilities to undertake such basic checks, particularly as from the various comments, this appears to be an ever more common issue, from a welfare angle alone this is abhorrent! Oh, and for what it's worth, even a buyer's 5-star vet check as we had, would not include as standard a test for pregnancy unless the dealer indicated there was a possibility of this being required, which invariably they don't.

I will persue this to hopefully establish a legal precedent for other duped buyers to follow, and also intend to bring this matter to the attention of the various animal welfare groups and my MP to hopefully bring about more definative & legislative rules and guidance around the rights of the buyer and the responsibilities and liabilities for dealers in this industry, possibly along the lines of the motor trade.

Many thanks for your various comments & I will post update on the outcome of my case in due course if the dealer prefers to have their day in court sooner than settle the case amicably.
 
Good luck with your claim.

As for people saying you have a free foal - there is no such thing as a free foal and I would be pretty mad but I guess its up to the dealer to prove he didnt know she was in foal.
 
jondaro said:
After reading the various comments and slept on this, and having spoken with a solicitor who has expertise on the simple principle of the matter, I am even more persuaded that there is a case to be answered and will persue a case against the dealer under the Sale of Goods act. The mare is to all extents 'fit for purpose' as originally advertised and claimed to be by the dealer, therefore returning the mare for my money back is not in fact a remedy; So the legal issue is around the costs incurred by her being in foal. According to the solicitor, the claim is based on 'Damages in liue of recission', with only the actual costs that have been directly incurred being sought (approx £700), these costs would have had to been borne by the dealer had they not sold the mare in the first place. My offer as part of my proposed settlement to give the foal back to the dealer apparently will have added weighting, given that specifically as part of their 'trade', a horse dealer/trader is in a much better position to recover their costs paid out.

I must say that I find this wholly unacceptable that horse dealers seemingly have no responsibilities to undertake such basic checks, particularly as from the various comments, this appears to be an ever more common issue, from a welfare angle alone this is abhorrent! Oh, and for what it's worth, even a buyer's 5-star vet check as we had, would not include as standard a test for pregnancy unless the dealer indicated there was a possibility of this being required, which invariably they don't.

I will persue this to hopefully establish a legal precedent for other duped buyers to follow, and also intend to bring this matter to the attention of the various animal welfare groups and my MP to hopefully bring about more definative & legislative rules and guidance around the rights of the buyer and the responsibilities and liabilities for dealers in this industry, possibly along the lines of the motor trade.

Many thanks for your various comments & I will post update on the outcome of my case in due course if the dealer prefers to have their day in court sooner than settle the case amicably.
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Get real will you. You are OTT on this and I think your not going to win.How can the seller know the horse is in foal???? OTT and pathetic attiude.
Horse was sold as described and you DO NOT HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON.You have to PROVE the dealer knew the mare was in foal and YOU CANT PROVE that.
 
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jondaro said:
I must say that I find this wholly unacceptable that horse dealers seemingly have no responsibilities to undertake such basic checks, particularly as from the various comments, this appears to be an ever more common issue, from a welfare angle alone this is abhorrent! Oh, and for what it's worth, even a buyer's 5-star vet check as we had, would not include as standard a test for pregnancy unless the dealer indicated there was a possibility of this being required, which invariably they don't.
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I think you contradict yourself. Checking if a horse is in foal is not a standard procedure before purchase. Unless it is nearing the end of gestation so suspicions are raised. If it was such a basic check then why didn't you do it?!


jondaro said:
will persue this to hopefully establish a legal precedent for other duped buyers to follow
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In all honesty i doubt you were duped. I expect the dealer didn't even know themselves.

I have to agree with others, trying to sue would be stressful and a waste of money. The dealer has offered to have the horse back. You have chosen not to send it back. A whole can of worms here! Just say that there is a problem with the foaling, there could be an argument that this was caused by you in some way. Hence any costs incurred are because of you, not because of the horse.

I think it will get very messy and you are better off either sending the horse back or keeping her and selling the foal at weaning.

Welcome to the world of horse ownership- things never go according to plan! I accept that she isn't exactly what you had intended to buy but personally i think in this case it is OTT to sue.
 
I can really only quote my first post on your thread

jemima_too said:
Hmm, the seller passed her on in good faith and you didn't realise she was in foal for a further two months? I think he's been remarkably good to offer you your money back.

If your solicitor is not a specialist equine one may I suggest you have a chat to a specialist equine solicitor, or if you are a Gold BHS member you could run it by their legal bods.
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and add that it was intended to help stop you throwing good money after bad as it would not be standard practice for any dealer to test all mares through his yard for pregnancy.

I also can't quite see where you have managed to rack up 700 quids worth of bills so far. Our girl had a call out fee and exam fee for a rectal exam and that was the sum total up until the foal check after giving birth.
 
teddyt said:
I think you contradict yourself. Checking if a horse is in foal is not a standard procedure before purchase. Unless it is nearing the end of gestation so suspicions are raised. If it was such a basic check then why didn't you do it?!




In all honesty i doubt you were duped. I expect the dealer didn't even know themselves.

I have to agree with others, trying to sue would be stressful and a waste of money. The dealer has offered to have the horse back. You have chosen not to send it back. A whole can of worms here! Just say that there is a problem with the foaling, there could be an argument that this was caused by you in some way. Hence any costs incurred are because of you, not because of the horse.

I think it will get very messy and you are better off either sending the horse back or keeping her and selling the foal at weaning.

Welcome to the world of horse ownership- things never go according to plan! I accept that she isn't exactly what you had intended to buy but personally i think in this case it is OTT to sue.
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Well said.Totally agree with you on this.
 
I too think its unrealistic to expect a dealer to pregnancy test every mare they buy. I would think it unusual for a dealer to have known that the mare was in foal. Most dealers that I've had experience of just bring horses over from Ireland and sell on quickly - thats what they do. They don't make money if they keep them long.. If it were a private seller who had owned the horse for a while who hadn't told you I would find that worse.

Out of interest, where does the £700 figure come from - what costs does that include?
 
jondaro said:
The mare is to all extents 'fit for purpose' as originally advertised and claimed to be by the dealer, therefore returning the mare for my money back is not in fact a remedy;
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No she's not "fit for purpose", she's pregnant. The dealer has acknowledged that given the mares situation, she is unfit for your needs. The dealer has offered you a full refund thus has fullfilled their obligations.
 
You say the horse you brought IS suitable for purpose? Then the dealer is surely not in breach of the Sales of goods act? And if he were then he's offered to take back the horse, which you are not prepared to do. It's not always as cut and dried as you think! I sort legal advice when I was sued and was told I couldn't lose, I did so think long and hard before you go ahead.
 
I have also known of a livery yard where the owner kept colts and one escaped into the liveries paddock covering the mares. Hmmm.

Anyway, with your case, the dealer has offered you the full refund for the animal, given that she cannot complete her duties as sold for, but you say that she meets those,

I'm afraid it's going to be probably more expensive for you to pursue the dealer for costs than any chance of getting those costs back.
Think what would a Magistrate judge see?
Not the emotional side, but the buying/selling side.

Judge will see that the dealer has been reasonable and offered you a FULL refund and to return the horse.

You refused, and chose your own path of trying to recoup costs, I doubt very much in my experience this will stand, sorry.
 
I can sort of see this from both angles.

You, as a new owner have found the perfect horse and so you don't really want to give it back for a refund (let's face it finding a good horse is bloody difficult). Last thing anyone wants when they buy a new horse is to have to give it time off for foaling, not part of the plan! Add to that the risks, time involved and cost to foal down with associated vets fees and yes, I can fully understand why you are angry and want compensation. The foal you get will unlikely to be registered and therefore have limited value, if you cover your costs on sale of foal then I'll be surprised.

From the dealers perspective, it is completely feasible that they had no clue they were selling on a pregnant mare. You have know proof they knew anything of the sorts. To me they have acted honourably in offering you a full refund, if you choose to refuse that then that is your decision, but morally I do not feel you are then in a position to sue them. Of course legally, the law might be written in such a way that a solicitor could interpret the situation in your favour. realistically, would you win in court .... I honestly haven't got a clue. All I see is a messy legal battlewhich will cause you a lot of stress and may not even get you the poxy £700 at the end of it. TBH if I was the dealer I'd probably pay you just to get you off my case!

Instead of giving yourself ulcers, why not sit back, accept ***** happens, and actually enjoy the foaling experience ... they are cute little buggers really, I'm sure your heart will melt. Anger isn't always healthy.
 
jondaro said:
After reading the various comments and slept on this, and having spoken with a solicitor who has expertise on the simple principle of the matter, I am even more persuaded that there is a case to be answered and will persue a case against the dealer under the Sale of Goods act. The mare is to all extents 'fit for purpose' as originally advertised and claimed to be by the dealer, therefore returning the mare for my money back is not in fact a remedy; So the legal issue is around the costs incurred by her being in foal.

I must say that I find this wholly unacceptable that horse dealers seemingly have no responsibilities to undertake such basic checks, ...even a buyer's 5-star vet check as we had, would not include as standard a test for pregnancy

...
I will persue this to hopefully establish a legal precedent for other duped buyers to follow, and also intend to bring this matter to the attention of the various animal welfare groups and my MP to hopefully bring about more definative & legislative rules and guidance around the rights of the buyer and the responsibilities and liabilities for dealers in this industry, possibly along the lines of the motor trade.
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What a twonk. You must have been reading a different thread to me then, :confused: because this one strongly advises against your intended course of action.

Under the sale of good act the horse was UNFIT for purpose. She is pregnant - she will not be able to perform even light duties for a set period of time. The return & refund is the beginning, and end, of the dealer's responsibility.

How does one expect a dealer to carry out checks on a horse which have already been explained to you are hard to do if not near the beginning or end of pregnancy, and which you yourself admit aren't even carried out on a full pre-purchase examination?

As for setting a precedent, contacting animal welfare groups, MPs etc... get over yourself.

*soapbox down*
 
OP, I have felt fairly sympathetic about your ''problem'', until you got on your high horse and vowed going into court battle to establish a precedent for other ''duped'' people...
The dealer has been fair, offered a full refund - you don't want it, so stick with the mare.
What you are planning to do is to create a lot of fuss over something fairly insignificant, if however you were to be successful in your claim, I fear the consequences would be rather unpleasant. Soon enough, with the ''where's a blame there's a claim'' attitude, the only reasonably safe way of selling a horse from the vendor's point of view, will be selling through auctions and markets.
 
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