Unknowingly bought my Mare in foal; What recourse is available

^^^ Agree. Dealer has been fair so seems just moneygrabbing when the mare could be returned today and the OP could have their money back to buy something not in foal. Thank god I don't live next to someone like that, god help you if you accidently trod on their flowers, you would be sued lol.
 
Love it!

I smell a professional negligence claim against a solicitor in about a years time...... either that or an OP who hasn't actually taken legal advice on these specific facts from a qualified professional in current practice......

I'd quite like to point out all the holes in the advcie, but i think it might be more fun to simply ask the OP to return when the case concludes to post a citation so that we can all read up on the legal precedent she has set :D
 
... As above, let us know how you go on, it will be interesting.

I wonder if the wording "Sold as seen" one sees on so many bills of sale could be argued to cover just the visible exterior of the animal, not what is going on internally?
 
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Solicitor: £200/hour average

Dealer: Sells horse that is as described in all ways other than there is a foal inside.
Dealer innocent until proven guilty.
Assumption: Dealer did not know about foal inside (unless solicitor can prove beyond reasonable doubt that dealer knew this)

Buyer: Not happy with foal inside.
Dealer: Offers full refund on return of purchase.
Buyer: Not happy to exchange the faulty object because they decided they actually quite like the object, just don't want the foal inside.
Dealer: Offers full refund on return of purchase.
Buyer: Sends letter before action.
Dealer: Offers full refund on return of purchase.

Magistrate: ... wtf?! ...

Outcome 1: You win. Given dealer's behaviour VERY unlikely he would be asked to pay your court costs. You receive £700 from dealer .... and pay £200/hour to solicitor.

Outcome 2: You lose. You pay your own and the dealer's court costs.

It's a win/win situation. If you're a solicitor!
 
LaurenM said:
How can you blame the dealer for not doing a pregnancy test when you didn't do one yourself during vetting? Sounds hypocritical.
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So agree. TBH, anyone buying a mare should insist on a pregnancy/suitability for breeding scan, it's their own stupidity if they don't as it would have stopped all this 'attitude' dead.

I echo the other posters after OP's statement of intent and TBH, I hope the dealer comes out on top with this one, the OP is acting shamefully.
 
MissTyc said:
Solicitor: £200/hour average

Dealer: Sells horse that is as described in all ways other than there is a foal inside.
Dealer innocent until proven guilty.
Assumption: Dealer did not know about foal inside (unless solicitor can prove beyond reasonable doubt that dealer knew this)

Buyer: Not happy with foal inside.
Dealer: Offers full refund on return of purchase.
Buyer: Not happy to exchange the faulty object because they decided they actually quite like the object, just don't want the foal inside.
Dealer: Offers full refund on return of purchase.
Buyer: Sends letter before action.
Dealer: Offers full refund on return of purchase.

Magistrate: ... wtf?! ...

Outcome 1: You win. Given dealer's behaviour VERY unlikely he would be asked to pay your court costs. You receive £700 from dealer .... and pay £200/hour to solicitor.

Outcome 2: You lose. You pay your own and the dealer's court costs.

It's a win/win situation. If you're a solicitor!
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ahem....

Costs aren't normally recoverable in small claims track cases...... so win or lose OP will have a bill of about £5000 for attempting to recover £700 - MAKES SENSE!!!

Oh and picky pedantic point, civil claims are normally heard by a judge not a magistrate, judges are professionals rather than lay people like a magistrate. They tend to take a dim view of vexatious litigants and often use their discretion to penalise them in costs.
 
Maesfen said:
So agree. TBH, anyone buying a mare should insist on a pregnancy/suitability for breeding scan, it's their own stupidity if they don't as it would have stopped all this 'attitude' dead.

I echo the other posters after OP's statement of intent and TBH, I hope the dealer comes out on top with this one, the OP is acting shamefully.
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Yikes I hope I'm not the only mare owner reading this and having a slight panic...... Oh well I'd be secretly quite thrilled by a BOGOF, a bit like those women who get pregnant "accidentally on purpose"!
 
KristmasKatt said:
ahem....

Costs aren't normally recoverable in small claims track cases...... so win or lose OP will have a bill of about £5000 for attempting to recover £700 - MAKES SENSE!!!
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Ahhh, I was hesitant to think it was that clear -cut
I only know the American legal system, though I was aware of some levels of similarities.

Thanks for the correction!
 
I'd be over the moon two for the price of one, great stuff.

'The one great principle of English law is to make business for itself'
Charles Dickens
 
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Ah, but it's the PRINCIPLE, don't you know!

*trundles off, shaking head*

*trundles back*

As an aside, the mare we bought was intended to be socialised (she was unhandled), broken and ridden away and then handed over as a special present for a child going through a bit of a bad patch. We started on socialising her and were just introducing a little bit of lunge work when we discovered that she was expecting. That rather set things back but hasn't been a disaster as the mare is now utterly chilled and happy round people and is in a lovely place to be brought back into work and backed and then handed over shortly after the foal is weaned. However we didn't want to tell the child that the pony was hers until mare and foal were safely through the birthing process.

So why tell you all this? Because today's the day!! Her mum will bring her over here a bit later on and the surprise will be sprung:D She's been helping me with "my" pony since the New Year and has no idea that it will be hers. I'm just off out shortly to decorate the stable with Happy Birthday banners and to plait some ribbons into the pony's mane.

Just think back to how you would feel if for your 12th birthday you were given your own pony, one that you'd fallen in love with and called your Princess Pony even when all you really got to do was help muck it out. Get those grins working overtime, this little girl is going to be SO thrilled.:D:D:D:D:D
 
jemima too, that is lovely and that is going to be one happy little girl. We did something very similar for my daughter, she had been riding a friends pony whilst it was up for sale, and had totally fallen in love with her. What she didn't know was that with my mums helping I had been paying for the pony in installments, and on daughters birthday she opened a big wrapped box to find a photo of said pony inside. I am grinning now remembering it, pony must have been a success as she is still here 10 years later.:D

Re the OP, I don't think you have a hope in hell and suspect the only winner will be your solicitor. A neighbour bought a donkey mare which gave birth to a foal nearly 11 months later (she must have just been covered when they got her), the neighbours only concern was if the seller found out they might want to claim the foal!:p
 
Jemima_too that sounds brilliant! Will you let us know how it gets on? I wish my mare had a BOGOF as shes getting on now. All i was told was that she had had her girl bits sown up at some point (this was after owning her for years) I just thought thats how their bits were! lol
 
I bought a lovely Hanoverian mare a few years ago and we had a brilliant partnership, won loads in all 3 disciplines. 10 months after I bought her, she went a perculiar shape. My farrier took one look at her and told me to put her in the foaling box as her boobies were solid and poking. I rang the person who sold her to me and asked if there was any chance? The young ID stallion had escaped from his stable just a couple of days after I`d gone to see her but they said it surely couldnt of happened again!!!!!
Apparently, they sold this mare for someone who had paid a lot of money as a jumping mare only to find out that she was in foal. Previous owners had tried to get her in foal and after she had been scanned not in foal had sold her and she was only 5 years old. They had sued the breeder and decided to sell the mare and the seller kept the foal.
Yes, you guessed it, within just a few days, we had a gorgeous filly. :o
I just thought I was very lucky in getting BOGOF :D and I kept both horses for years. :D
You`ve got the choice of keeping both, and selling the foal, or sending the mare back! Like others have said the dealer has been very good in offering to give you all the money back.
My friend has just bought a horse off a dealer that had been giving her lessons and she trusted him. Turns out he is a wobbler and a rig and she is devastated. She would do anything to be in your position as the dealer `friend` wont have anything to do with it and she paid a good price for this horse who is rendered as useless and the vets wont pay out if it is PTS.
 
jondaro - be honest, are you really just hoping that the dealer will give you a payout in order to avoid the cost and hassle of going to court? I think the dealer has been very reasonable and you appear to be motivated by greed rather than a genuine concern for the mare, after all you admit that the horse is just what you want.
 
Naturally said:
What a twonk. You must have been reading a different thread to me then, :confused: because this one strongly advises against your intended course of action.

Under the sale of good act the horse was UNFIT for purpose. She is pregnant - she will not be able to perform even light duties for a set period of time. The return & refund is the beginning, and end, of the dealer's responsibility.

How does one expect a dealer to carry out checks on a horse which have already been explained to you are hard to do if not near the beginning or end of pregnancy, and which you yourself admit aren't even carried out on a full pre-purchase examination?

As for setting a precedent, contacting animal welfare groups, MPs etc... get over yourself.

*soapbox down*
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Presses "Like" button
 
I wouldn't be over the moon to get a BOGOF, it's true. Many places don't have facilities for a mare with foal at foot or the facilities for weaning, while I don't think I've got enough experience to educate a baby. But if I had bought an in-foal mare, I like to think that I would do my very best for that horse that I've grown attached to rather than throwing my money away on legal advice.
 
Just to put a slightly different spin on it - the OP has NO idea who or what the mare is in foal too, and probably little chance of finding out. It is highly doubtful it was swabbed prior to conception, and could be carrying who knows what.

The idea of a free foal is all well and good if pregnancy and foaling go according to plan but we all know that is not always the case. My standpoint from this comes purely from a friend who was in an identical situation....her mare foaled awfully, the foal died, the mare was so screwed up gynaelogically (sp?) she was unable to foal again, my friend was left with thousands of pounds of vets bills and a horse prone to colic due to the surgery. She lost her last year. She didn't try to seek recompense with the dealer BUT she was left with a huge risk that she didn't 'buy' (ie a horse in foal) and a horse that was certainly not fit for purpose afterwards.

I have no idea about the legal side of things, so not willing to comment there - just think that it's not just about being pleased to get a BOGOF and that OP should put up and shut up.
 
Well, Twiglet, the OP can easily avoid that risk - the dealer offered a full refund on return of the mare... that is the point, regardless how nice or otherwise it is to get a BOGOF :)
 
9tails said:
I wouldn't be over the moon to get a BOGOF, it's true. Many places don't have facilities for a mare with foal at foot or the facilities for weaning, while I don't think I've got enough experience to educate a baby. But if I had bought an in-foal mare, I like to think that I would do my very best for that horse that I've grown attached to rather than throwing my money away on legal advice.
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Happened to me with my late mare.. My first and only thoughts concerned the mare and how to give her the best possible care.
I read a lot of books on foaling, begged advice from the breeding folk in here and called my vet far too often. The result was a lovely little filly who I sold at weaning. It was one of my best experiences to date.

It didn't occur to me to try and return the mare for a refund, however I can understand why someone might want to do this - the horse was not sold as suitable for the job she was bought to do. She came from a private seller, so I think I may have struggled anyway, if I had gone down that route.
I do think the dealer in question is being very fair.

It seems to me that the OP is trying to have and eat the proverbial cake.
"yes I'll have the nice mare, yes I'll have the foal she'll produce, Yes I'll also have some extra money off you so that you can pay for the keep of the foal, and yes I'll probably sell the foal and pocket that cash too.."

Not a chance!
 
martlin said:
Well, Twiglet, the OP can easily avoid that risk - the dealer offered a full refund on return of the mare... that is the point, regardless how nice or otherwise it is to get a BOGOF :)
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Quite, and the OP has a duty to mitigate her loss which means she should keep her losses to a minimum. She should either accept the offer from the dealer or take her chances.

She could appeal to the dealers better nature and see if he will do something like Kallibear suggested (I think that was who posted the options) and see whether he would take the mare back to foal at his expense. But she can't have her cake and eat it by having the mare, the foal and no financial cost either.
 
It's all well and good to say but how many people here would find it easy to give away a horse they'd formed an attachment to? I know I'd struggle.

I'm not saying the OP is right in her desire for compensation, I just think a lot of the replies have been very black and white.
 
jondaro said:
After reading the various comments and slept on this, and having spoken with a solicitor who has expertise on the simple principle of the matter, I am even more persuaded that there is a case to be answered and will persue a case against the dealer under the Sale of Goods act. The mare is to all extents 'fit for purpose' as originally advertised and claimed to be by the dealer, therefore returning the mare for my money back is not in fact a remedy; So the legal issue is around the costs incurred by her being in foal. According to the solicitor, the claim is based on 'Damages in liue of recission', with only the actual costs that have been directly incurred being sought (approx £700),
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Dear lord - you are the epitome of a nightmare buyer

Also you cannot spell as its "damages in lieu of rescission" - for innocent misrepresentation - however if I were a judge I'd kick you out of court as horses are generally covered by caveat emptor and if the dealer had any sense they would have put "sold as seen" on the receipt

In which case STOP wasting time and money and being the reason why the horse industry has mounting expense from legal happy idiots

Either send it back or keep it

Honestly I really do loathe people that are pursuing pointless legal cases....
 
Buyer beware only comes into play if it's a private sale, as this horse was brought from a dealer it has to be suitable for purpose. I know I keep banging on about it but don't assume that it makes a difference. When I sold my pony privately I stated on the receipt sold as seen, didn't do me any good they still won.
 
This happened to someone I know. After that, I always had mares scanned prior to purchase. Maybe there is a legal case, but a 5 stage vetting does not include a check for pregnancy and unless it was discussed at sale and dealer insisted it was not pregnant, I think your case is weak.
Also, do the math; lawyers charge £200 hr. What is the actual cost of raising a foal til sale? 5 hours of a lawyers time....
 
I think if I was the dealer i'd give this owner £700 for 'costs' then charge them £1000 for the foal they 'stole' at the same time that they bought the mare.
 
In my opinion the OP is on her high horse and out for revenge.She will NOT listen to sense,thinks she knows it all and I HOPE THE DEALER WINS.
Talk about OTT shes deffinatly that.People like this shouldnt have horses.Gould help her neighbours if they had a stallion that accidently covered her mare.People like OP best left to their own devices.
 
Can I just ask...

Did you even ask the dealer if the mare may be pregnant?

Did you ask the vet that vetted her if the mare may be pregnant?

If not, I don't see how you'd ever have a leg to stand on, and I also agree with the others, that the dealer has been fair in what they have offered.
 
Serenity087 said:
I think the OP should give the mare back and give up on riding horses...

If this is how Sue-Happy she gets over a BOGOF, imagine how much her soliciter is going to love her when she falls off...
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just what i was thinking!!! god help any livery yard they are on!!!

I would love to hear a proper equine solicitors view on this, i can't see how, if the OP didn't find out for 2 months that the mare was in foal that they expect to prove that the dealer must have known and is therefore responsible!!

but hey ho, i;'m sure the OP will come back and share the experience when they get laughed out of court
 
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