Unloadable horse, am i doing the right thing?

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somethingorother

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After a year of sharing/ part loaning neurotic ginger arab, i have decided i want to go places. Therefore we have started to work on the 'horse that does not load' issues. He has been known to get in a bit of a state even if in a stable where he can see the trailer out of the window. Told you he was neurotic.

Step 1: Sniffing the trailer, standing near it, having pats and an odd handful of yummy stuff (whatever's to hand). Happy to be stood near trailer and not bother with it. This took 2 sessions

Step 2: front feet on ramp, big pats, treats and hugs.
Step 3: walk over the bottom of the ramp and off the other side. Pats and treats, repeat lots. These both happened in the same session, i was chuffed to bits.

Step 4: all 4 feet on ramp and standing calmly and relaxed. Third + 4th sessions. More walking over ramp, plus the smaller front ramp just to be sure. All good so far. More treats and pats

Step 5: feeding inside the trailer. This went ok, i was made up with him. But he did have his head burried in a bucket and so probably didn't realise where he was. Walked through the trailer and down other ramp twice easy peasy. Treats and pats. 3rd time, wind blew the partition and he shot out the front of the trailer. Spent a further 30min trying to coax him in one more time but failed :(

Step 6: standing in the trailer and eating. This is where we are now starting to go backwards. He wants to step in, take a mouthful and immediately step back out. Attempts to convince him to stay lead to him threatening to go up and i'm worried he's going to bang his head. He's perfectly happy to go in while there's food in the bucket but would rather be outside to chew, and the second the bucket is empty his feet won't go past the end of the ramp again.

What do i do now??? Feel like i've hit a stale mate, especially to say i had him in it 3 times a week ago and now it's all i can do to get his front half over the threshold. Do i carry on or change tactic?

Throntons choccies to anyone who can help!
 
Go back a few steps to a place where he's comfortable. Sounds like you've been doing the right things so just be prepared for it to have to go back a step before you can go forward again.

For him to have got so far is pretty impressive. I'd maybe take it a bit slower - so you do two or three sessions of the exact same thing until he's bored of it. And loads of repetition, maybe every other day or something

I know what a nightmare it can be but just stay positive - my friend had the exact same situation with her horse but managed to get him to a place where he will now load and travel to a new place absolutely fine!!

Once you get to the stage where you shut him up inside and travel him, I've heard that it's best to travel for a reasonable amount of time - i.e. longer than 25 minutes or so. Apparently their adrenaline starts to fade after that point. If you travel them for any shorter, they will be really stressed when they get off.

Not sure if that's true but it's what my friend with the problem loader did and they are fine now. good luck.
 
Has he got a friend that will happily stand loaded up whilst you try to teach him? Or one he will follow through the trailer? I know he has to stop and be tied eventually but sometimes they get a lot of security by knowing they can walk through first. And even better if you can travel a friend with him at first.
 
Absolutely go back to the last stage he was comfortable with. Then start again, but at a slower pace. Take longer with each stage so he has time to build on his confidence.
Have you tried loading him into a box instead of a trailer?
 
He has no one else confident who can load with him. And i don't have access to a box. It's a private yard so I've only got what i've got to work with :( He will still happily stand on the ramp all day, and walk over them, up and down them, whatever. In fact he now seems to think that if he does this we can finish and he's done for the day so seems to try it to get out of facing into the trailer.

I have no plans to take him anywhere any time soon, just to get to the stage where i can shut him in and he is happy. All i want is for him to be happy in there, i want him to almost look forwards to going in it because nice things happen.

Should i just feed him on the ramp for now? Wanted him to get used to having his tea in there (or around there) so that he associates it with nice things. But i'm just worried that he will never see any further than the 'ramp of nice things' rather than the 'trailer of nice things' if i do this. It seems to be where we're heading at the moment.

Thanks for the advice so far. The travelling and adrenaline tip is interesting too but i think it will be a while until we cross that bridge. In fact i wouldn't be bothered if it wasn't til spring.
 
SummerxStarsx said:
Ohhh, don't get me started on this :mad: :mad:

I am in EXACTLY the same position as you at the moment and it is seriously starting to get me down.

See my post from a couple of months back http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=382546 you may find some useful advice on there too.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


Thanks SS, had a good read and there's some useful stuff on there. I guess i will just keep at it, and i might try the dually because we do have one. I think it is partly a bit of stubborness, as he almost refuses to consider it without a big bucket of food, but is willing to brave it for a gob full of chaff. Then again i always say he's a cob in arabs clothing.
 
Sounds like your doing all the right things. Like the others have said, its just a long slow process.

The other thing I would say is maybe put I poll gaurd on him and make sure you wear hat and gloves. Just in case you push him a bit too far by acident and he doesnt like it. protects you both then.

It is doable though. I have had two 'non-loaders' and both now travel brilliantly. Its just showing them they dont have to be scared of it. which is what your doing.

Good luck with it!
 
It seems like you are doing everything right at the moment, as with most things with horses, it always sems that as soon as you think you have cracked something you have to go back a couple of steps, patience and keep trying.
Have you tried a small bit of feed and a haynet tied up i there, so when he finishes his feed he has a haynet to keep him entertained.
Saying that i have the most stubbon mare to load, food, ignores, lunge lines forget it.
You have to take your coat off and flap it up once, she then walks on as calmly as anything, will wait to be tied up and and have partition in place, and have the ramp up. but them minute the ramp is up she will start kicking bells out the lorry, start the engine and go to move off you would no even know you have a horse in there.
They are all just different.
 
Thanks, i am just scared of ruining our good work. It's ok when it's all going well like it was at first, but now we're going backwards im worried it must be something i'm doing wrong. He can have his tea at the top of the ramp again tonight and i think i will look for a poll guard beause he did worry me a bit, he can grow by about 10 hand when he wants to.

miss bird, we don't get that far in at the moment :( But maybe i could put one in there anyway just in case. Was just worried about it blocking him in from the front, in case he darts through and i get squished.
 
I have not read all the replies, so this have already been said. Get a professional trainer / behaviourist to help.

We have been through all of this with a 17 year old mare who has never reliably loaded. Five lessons and some serious telephone back up and we pretty much have it cracked.

The lady we used is a little too far away from you, but I am sure there are others. She uses a combination of sensible techniques, common sense and experience and she does not put a handle on what she does (NH, Parelli etc etc) and more than anything else she trains the rider / owner to handle the horse.

Good luck.
 
Not loading can be due to either fear of the trailer or problems with trust and handling. Check out the trailer, a dodgy floor can cause the occupant to panic or travel in it (on private land) to discover and correct rattles and bits banging.
Natural horsemanship is the key to the handling and trust problems, - you don't have to do it full time! I have had brilliant results on two of mine with just a couple of visits and three weeks gentle practice.
If he's scared of noises could you not get someone to bang and clatter bits of the trailer while you feed him nearby?
One poor loader did what yours is doing, backing out with determination as soon as the food was finished. I held my breath and shut the ramps whist he was eating and then went and hid in the barn. Nothing happened. When I went back and stuck my head in the jockey door he looked at me as though wondering what the new game was!
Another horse who gradually got worse at loading was cured by tickling him on the shoulder with a dressage whip. I think it distracted him from all the goings on in the yard, but I'm not really sure why it works.
As you can tell I have been where you are! you have my sympathies.
 
I know your're not there yet but try to make sure that the trailer is a front unload so that when you actually get him in he KNOWS the only way out is forward. Even if you feed him in there with the front ramp open, because horses that hurtle out backwards are very dangerous. I once spent an afternoon playin g with someone's pony, a really good game of 'we go up the ramp and go through and out the other side'. It works if yo can get that far. good luck
 
Sounds like your doing great.....
have you tried taking the partition out so that he has more room,
along with having the front ramp down.
just walk him in then out again over and over again..
then try walking in, standing sill for a min then walk out, building up with the time
the brighter the better..
just take your time and at will all slot in to place.
good luck:)
 
sounds ;like youre doing the right thing to me. Just go back a stage and dont worry if it takes a while. I think youve achieved quite alot in a short time anyway
 
Take the partition out

Walk in, pause, give treat, then walk straight out. (stops the thoughts of walking out backwards)

Without the partition, it will be much bigger, nothing to bump on and she will be much more happy to walk through.

Once she's happy doing that again, pop partition back in again.
 
Fed him on the ramp again tonight, with his front half in the trailer (back hooves still on ramp though). He was tonnes better tonight, especially considering there was someone cementing behind him, but i thought he might as well get used to some noise while he's in it. He did back out after he had nearly finished but stood in to chew and stood pretty still. So i asked him to come back in a bit to eat the last 2 mouthfuls and he did, so i left it there.

Thanks for all the great advice. I don't have very much money so i'm not going to go running to a trainer unless we really do hit a wall for a period of time. However, if we do have trouble then i think since he's not mine and i don't have a car capible of pulling the trailer so will be reliant on lifts, it's not worth me spending my money on him at 18 years old. Even if i love him to bits. It's just something i wanted to see if we could do and i got hopeful with how well it seemed to be going. (to be honest i thought we would have far worse reactions)

It's a front unload which is great, but i can't remove the partition as it seems to have a fixed bar in the centre from roof to floor. I have folded both sides of this back out of the way to make it look more light and roomy though.

When i did get him in last week, we walked straight through and it went well until i asked him to stand in there for a few seconds on that was the point the partition blew! So when i try again, i think i will stick to walking through for a couple of sessions and then increase the time i ask him to wait by a few seconds each time. Or will i then have problems getting him to stand?

Thanks again for all the advice, i think i needed a bit of reassurance really, i just didn't want to 'break' him lol .*choccies all round* :D
 
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You are doing all the right things, it just takes time. When I first got my 16 year old arab mare she wouldnt load ( I already knew this ) and it took a racehorse transporter 2 hours to load her with 2 men.

After I had her 3 months I was moving 200 miles so she had to learn. A friend of mine taught her some basic parelli- not the games just some manners and respect and moving her feet when asked as she was quite bargy and rude and would just barge you out the way.

My mare is quite a stress head and to start with a made a trailer shape in the school out of jump stackers and wings and asked her to walk quietly through them and progressed to standing in the enclosed space.

We then asked her to walk sideways across the ramp quietly, then did 1 foot on the ramp facing into the traler, when she did this without panicing( she is claustrophobic) her reward was given, we did this til she was calm with all feet and standing in the trailer.

My mare will now load single handedly with me standing on the ramp and pointing into the trailer, she now happily loads and also unloads backwards herself when asked- I untie her, put her rope across her back, drop the ramp- undo her breech bar( I have an ifor so it is solid) and ask her to back up, I then catch her at the bottom.

We did all this in 2 weeks, my friend was a big help. I can now load and unload my mare on my own without any help even in the pitch dark.
She is even happy to stand in the trailer for a few hours quietly with just her top door open so she can see out. Good luck and keep persevering.
 
My friend has same problems with her horse, takes ages to load if we are able to get her in we are shattered. Well today we took my new 3.5t two horse lorry............. to the beach.......... she looked at it stood for a while, sniffed the ramp... and walked straight into it and stood happy..!!!!!!!!!! well talk about open mouthes and lost for words... all I can think is she hates the confines of a trailer, but will travell backwards in a lorry. Can you get anyone with one of these to see if she will load ok. You can hire them for about £90 a day. All I can think is my mates horse did not like the trailer and felt unhappy about it. I wish you luck in your loading trials..
 
ROMANY 1959 said:
My friend has same problems with her horse, takes ages to load if we are able to get her in we are shattered. Well today we took my new 3.5t two horse lorry............. to the beach.......... she looked at it stood for a while, sniffed the ramp... and walked straight into it and stood happy..!!!!!!!!!! well talk about open mouthes and lost for words... all I can think is she hates the confines of a trailer, but will travell backwards in a lorry. Can you get anyone with one of these to see if she will load ok. You can hire them for about £90 a day. All I can think is my mates horse did not like the trailer and felt unhappy about it. I wish you luck in your loading trials..
Click to expand...

I think he probably would load better in a lorry, in fact i'm sure of it. But his owner only has a trailer and that's how it's going to stay. So he needs to get used to it. Although i understand it's not a nice thing to get used to, hence copious amounts of food bribery ;)

Sounds like your friend has cracked it though and how nice to have a stress free travel to the beach. Hope that's me and my boy next spring! :)


Flaxen, wow well done! Can i borrow you and your friend???? :p That sounds like a fabulous job, i'm so happy for you, it must be wonderful. It might take us 2 months (or 6) instead of 2 weeks but that is my aim for Osc, i want him to be completely happy in there.
 
I had one horse who would only go on with the partition to one side, and the front ramp down. Eventualy he would go in with just the front window bit above the ramp open ( sometimes ;)) You had to walk with purpose with him. Almost on th verge of a trot, if you went slow he just wouldnt budge.

Another was a beautiful loader, as long as you have a rope at his bum! meant you needed spare people, but he walked so casual with it, and was a drama queen without!

Id try all the techniques to see which works. Treats and cuddles are fabulous bribery for rewarding when hes done a good job, but Remember theres a balance between being super kind and sweet with him and telling him what you want him to do! :)

Good luck!
 
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I know it's been said - but you are doing the right things - just take it steady & slowly. My old TB mare was an absolute nightmare to load, and it took absolutely yonks before she was anywhere approaching ok - and then that wasn't guaranteed!

I spent so much time with her stuck at the bottom of my ramp - she would just stand at the bottom and refuse to move anywhere at all. After I watched a MR demo I tried join up for the first time ever, and then used some of his techniques - which helped enormously - reverse psychology definitely worked on her! I spent all my time then telling her how I didn't want her to go into the lorry, and she (nearly) always walked on up!

It took several weeks before I could get her happy with being partioned in to the lorry, and then several more weeks of loading her up, shutting the ramp up and starting the lorry, moving it backwards & forward on the driveway! I think my neighbours thought I was mad driving forward 10m and then reversing back again!! ha ha!!

I did find that rescue remedy helped my mare a lot, and also take a look at some of the homeopathic remedies - I used one for travel sickness with my mare, and it bizarrely helped a lot! I used this (can't remember the name now, sorry!!) when we were going on longer journeys, and when I had used it she never sweated up.

Carry on the way you are going, and you WILL get there! Trust me - I've been there - and it is do-able! :)
 
I am sure your patience will be rewarded!

Had a couple of trailer loading issues before now. At the sticky stage, made sure I had a helper to get the ramp up straightaway once horse in trailer, while I carried on feeding him to keep his mind off pulling back.

I found the loading vid by Richard Maxwell on the Horsehero website really useful :)
 
Thanks guys.

alainax, i did try telling him off because he had a naughty phase of not going into his stable and if i got mad at him and gave him a smack on the bum with the leadrope he would then go straight in (only lasted about 3 weeks and he's fine now) so i thought maybe it would stop him being stubborn, because i can see that's a part of it. But it made him worse and he just ran backwards. I know it's not the way forward in this situation and i wish i hadn't tried it but i just wanted to see.

Flo Bell i will keep that in mind for when we start to travel him (or IF). He's not that scared at the moment. He's being largely stubborn. I know it's routed in fear, but he's not getting too stressed about it to be honest. When he threatened to go up, it was the same as when he doesn't want suncream on his nose or his face wiping, nothing more drastic. I know he will be petrified when he's shut and and we start to move though so i might try some rescue remedy if we get to that stage.

Wish i had people around more to help, but it's usually just me. :( Not got the best situation to get him used to it so i guess it will just have to take longer. But in the end if i can load him by myself it might be better.
 
Ring mark smith on 07930151562
he will charge you nothing if he cannot load it.
He will load it 100 times in one session - guaranteed.
No problem !!
Look on his website msjump.co.uk
 
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