Unnecessary to see at HOYS

merlinsquest said:
I didn't say it wasn't, but was pointing out that as a regular attendee at shows both working & riding I haven't seen many examples of the abusive riding being described on here..
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I agree, rarely see it at all. Personally i would be happy to be half as talented as many of the riders compteting at hoys.
 
merlinsquest said:
I didn't say it wasn't, but was pointing out that as a regular attendee at shows both working & riding I haven't seen many examples of the abusive riding being described on here. One poster has described horses with rolling eyes & people not being able to ride, sorry but this is ludicrous, perhaps at lower levels there are poor examples of riding, but this is true of all the disciplines, I could quote plenty of examples from the event I helped a friend at today, but at 1.40m/1.50m level I think you need to be pretty good, brave & accurate.
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Merlinsquest you are spot on here and have put much more eloquently than I have the crux of the matter. To the others spare a thought for those riders who go out there get the job done so you all have something to criticize and go on about! The novicey comment, although meant sarcastically, is correct if you don't know enough to offer anything to be constructive the obvious suggestion would be to say nothing..............
 
Don't tar all mounted games riders with same brush, my team were just short or hoys q when I was little and not one of us rode like that. My pony was put on a pedastool but very few people could ride one side of him as even though he was 12hh he was a nutter.
 
Ok - so to follow a simple argument you have to stick with the essence of the original point. Defending a rider by talking about their undeniable talent isn't appropriate here. Nobody is denying their talent, I wish I had it, I wish I could ride for just five minutes with their confidence. That isn't what this is about. It is a rider's choice to sock their horse in the mouth - it has nothing to do with ability, jealousy..... I just didn't like to see it. I am fairly certain they are all lovely people BUT today some horses had it a little rough.
 
I was at HOYS on Weds and saw the demo from Tim Stockdale....I videoed him jumping his 'new' horse The Toymaker and everyone who has seen what I filmed has commented on how he constantly says "good boy" after each and every fence and gives him a good pat...not once in that arena did he look distressed or upset and it's lovely to see, really lovely.
K x
 
fjordhorsefan said:
I hate watching people showjump - spurring the horse while hauling on its mouth, no wonder the poor sods are always rolling their eyes and look confused!! It makes me cringe, it really does. Trouble is, you see it at local shows now, small kids with spurs and whips beating hell out their pony because they can't ride :(

I'm sure there are lovely showjumpers out there, I just happen to never have seen them ride yet :(
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Spurring the horse while hauling on its mouth - there must be some remarkably talented showjumping horses out there, and some remarkably unbalanced top riders! Horses simply won't try for you if you do that.

Perhaps you need to get out and about a bit more competing...

Actually, re-reading your post, I'm not sure where you have witnessed this type of riding, other than at local shows, not HOYS, which is what the thread is about.
 
I've been watching most of the SJ on Sky and have only seen one thing that was out of order - that being Leon Thijssen spurring his horse, while hauling it's head to one side at the end of his round in the Zinc class. He was clearly in a temper with it and I did think at one point he might come off it over the barrier into the seats. On a slo-mo replay (we'd recorded the class) you can clearly see the horse has a raw, bloody bare patch from his spurs on it's side. interestingly, I googled him to see if there was anything in the press about it and it came up with stuff from a similar incident in the same class 2 years ago.
Other than this everything I've watched has been fine - in fact I think there's been more smiling riders and patting of horses than usual.
 
Zerotolerance said:
I've been watching most of the SJ on Sky and have only seen one thing that was out of order - that being Leon Thijssen spurring his horse, while hauling it's head to one side at the end of his round in the Zinc class. He was clearly in a temper with it and I did think at one point he might come off it over the barrier into the seats. On a slo-mo replay (we'd recorded the class) you can clearly see the horse has a raw, bloody bare patch from his spurs on it's side. interestingly, I googled him to see if there was anything in the press about it and it came up with stuff from a similar incident in the same class 2 years ago.
Other than this everything I've watched has been fine - in fact I think there's been more smiling riders and patting of horses than usual.
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I'm glad it wasnt just me that saw this uncomfortable incident, I thought the horse was going to fall over at one point, very bad horsemanship and the commentators went very quiet too, other than that I've seen very quiet sympathetic riding skills throughout the competition.
 
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Kazza1 said:
Which of the riders/horses you were upset by?
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I have already stated that it was the pony club that I was particularly bothered by. I can't name them unfortunately but the gangly lad on the bay and the grump little girl on the elderly grey were particularly annoying.....
 
Billie1007 said:
I was far more bothered about the pony club games, I couldn't watch and ended up surfing the net while friends were watching. Kids with their knees past the bottom of the saddle flap, leant forward so their feet could constantly kick the ponies hind quarters. Boys who should really move on from their 13hh pony dragging it round and jabbing them in the mouths. Ponies harshly jabbed and pulled at for making a mistake. The commentator kept saying 'this is where it all begins guys - at pony club' yep I agree it is definitely where the 'animal as machine' begins. Nice one PC.
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Unfortunately, gymkhana games have long since stopped being part of shows.
Yes, the children are somewhat tall on the ponies, but the ponies are well capable of carrying them.
Games teach so much more than a showing or jumping class.
They teach balance, hand/eye co-ordination, agility, athletic ability, fitness and gamesmanship.
The ponies love it or they would not be at the standard they are. I would bet that even though these ponies are top flight in games they also do all other PC events.

I paid for my shows by winning games - you paid £1 for eight games and could win £3 for each one. The main pony I used was 13.3, I liked him because no one else ever wanted to ride him in games because he bit (and how!) but he was great and I was certain to win at least three games and be placed in most others. You had a heat, a quarter and semi before you got to the final - everyone played games and showed and jumped their ponies. Majority of ponies were riding school animals and they loved it. Even the quietest would get tizzy waiting to start.

These children have far more feeling for their ponies than majority who look pretty and just sit on top looking pretty.
How many of the show riders can vault on their animals as it is cantering along? How many of those show ponies can be led at a canter from another pony? How many of those show ponies live a happy more natural life other than schooling and the show ring?

A child that has played these games can be tidied up to use the aids correctly and will make a more balanced rider than the one who has always been made to sit pretty.

Kokopelli said:
Don't tar all mounted games riders with same brush, my team were just short or hoys q when I was little and not one of us rode like that. My pony was put on a pedastool but very few people could ride one side of him as even though he was 12hh he was a nutter.
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I agree!
 
Foxhunter49 said:
Unfortunately, gymkhana games have long since stopped being part of shows.
Yes, the children are somewhat tall on the ponies, but the ponies are well capable of carrying them.
Games teach so much more than a showing or jumping class.
They teach balance, hand/eye co-ordination, agility, athletic ability, fitness and gamesmanship.
The ponies love it or they would not be at the standard they are. I would bet that even though these ponies are top flight in games they also do all other PC events.

I paid for my shows by winning games - you paid £1 for eight games and could win £3 for each one. The main pony I used was 13.3, I liked him because no one else ever wanted to ride him in games because he bit (and how!) but he was great and I was certain to win at least three games and be placed in most others. You had a heat, a quarter and semi before you got to the final - everyone played games and showed and jumped their ponies. Majority of ponies were riding school animals and they loved it. Even the quietest would get tizzy waiting to start.

These children have far more feeling for their ponies than majority who look pretty and just sit on top looking pretty.
How many of the show riders can vault on their animals as it is cantering along? How many of those show ponies can be led at a canter from another pony? How many of those show ponies live a happy more natural life other than schooling and the show ring?

A child that has played these games can be tidied up to use the aids correctly and will make a more balanced rider than the one who has always been made to sit pretty.



I agree!
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No, no no no no. You seem to be confused. I am not talking about you, or the other poster that you have quoted. I am talking about my opinion of those particular riders yesterday that I didn't like. That's it. You can't defend them with your own knowledge of the sport. It is my opinion about 2 particular riders. What don't you get about that?

Sigh.

Disclaimer - I am not saying that every pony club kid kicks their horse ridiculously or hauls on their mouths dragging their bit back to their eyeballs while just standing still as a telling off.

I am saying that I saw this happen yesterday and I didn't like it. I am perfectly capable of understanding that the little bay could carry gangly boy (because I am not a moron) what I am suggesting is that if any part of his lower leg from his knee down doesn't connect with the animal anymore without him leaning over its neck, swinging his legs up to its hind and kicking it there then he should probably move on. He was kicking it around the top of its tail.....

This will seem very rude but are some of you incapable of following an argument? Why do you feel you need to defend the sport in general because of something very particular I saw yesterday.

Arggghhhh!

No smilies to make it seem like I am not trying to offend anyone :)
 
I do not think I was mistaken from the way your original post was written - I read it that it was all the PC games participants that were riding this way, which, reading it again, is the impression you gave.

I do not think of you as a moron or an idiot and understand it is your opinion. Now I understand that it was only one or two children.

I do not think that allowances should be made for adult riders getting at their horses when they have not gone so well, I do not agree with it happening with children either but, when actually competing like this sometimes the excitement of the event gets to the young riders and things are not done correctly.

Billie1007 quote

I was far more bothered about the pony club games, I couldn't watch and ended up surfing the net while friends were watching. Kids with their knees past the bottom of the saddle flap, leant forward so their feet could constantly kick the ponies hind quarters. Boys who should really move on from their 13hh pony dragging it round and jabbing them in the mouths. Ponies harshly jabbed and pulled at for making a mistake. The commentator kept saying 'this is where it all begins guys - at pony club' yep I agree it is definitely where the 'animal as machine' begins. Nice one PC.
 
I didn't see ANY of this yesterday, and I seen some pretty beaming riders.

Only Robert whittakers interview after pulling watergate out of the puissance annoyed me. He was so dour faced.
 
On the train coming back from HOYS having had a great night watching the accumulator and the puissance, in the accumulator i cant remember who it was, but the horse got 4 rapid on the shoulder coming round the top end of the arena, i couldnt see what it was for, but accept she might have felt her horse backing off, i wasnt sitting on it. What i saw were very talented riders jumping huge tracks.
The puissance was fantastic and having been there was very impressed with how soft and light the riders in that class were.
Pony club games, you either love it or loath it imo
 
LOVED the pony club games, the ponies were having a ball.

I liked how the puissance all came down to a bunch of younger riders - and happy birthday to Charlotte Alton! And I was impressed about how softly they were coming into it!
 
Jenni_ said:
LOVED the pony club games, the ponies were having a ball.

I liked how the puissance all came down to a bunch of younger riders - and happy birthday to Charlotte Alton! And I was impressed about how softly they were coming into it!
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Ah thats right shes 18 today, and a very talented young woman rider
 
I was there on Thursday and also cringed at some of the awful riding in the mounted games however the team's entrance and exit in perfect formation showed the good quality riding and tuition of the PC well. I think the scary riding seems to be the norm actually during the races and perhaps we just don't see these sorts of things usually because games seem to have fallen out of favour at shows. I guess the excitement of the ponies and riders plays a part!

All in all I admire the skill and training that must go in to it but didn't enjoy watching it I'm afraid
 
Billie1007 said:
This will seem very rude but are some of you incapable of following an argument? Why do you feel you need to defend the sport in general because of something very particular I saw yesterday.
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Actually, it does seem very rude, and I think you should re-read your first post before you accuse others of not following an argument - in that post, you do not refer to two individual competitors who rode attrociously (in your opinion) but to "kids" riding badly, "boys" too big for their ponies etc.

It is highly relevant in the face of such a sweeping comment to point out that it is not the norm in the sport to have all competitors capable of kicking their ponies at the base of their tail (I imagine this is highly unusual for most riders anyway unless they have seriously deformed legs) and that MGs are an excellent early education in equitation in many people's opinion. You're entitled to disagree, but there's no reason for the rest of the forum not to post their opinions either.
 
@JFTD - I can't quote as on my phone..... I think I made it clear that I was being rude. Also in my other posts I made it clear that we weren't talking systemic behaviour from everybody.... And that I am fully aware it was a moment in time, seen through my eyes. I didn't say that others couldn't have an opinion at all but that their arguments about general MG skills etc were unecessary here as I was talking about particular riders. I thought I had made that clear. BoyS - more than one, doesn't mean all. KidS - more than one, doesn't mean all. Not sure what else to say really
 
I was in the prince phillip cup team 36 years ago!! and we all kicked like hell and rode like banshees!! the ponies love it, if they didn't they wouldn't be in the teams!!!
 
Oh and I don't remember saying the riding was atrocious either. I did describe what I saw however, if you have decided that this sounds atrocious then that's your opinion ;)
 
Billie1007 said:
@JFTD - I can't quote as on my phone..... I think I made it clear that I was being rude. Also in my other posts I made it clear that we weren't talking systemic behaviour from everybody.... And that I am fully aware it was a moment in time, seen through my eyes. I didn't say that others couldn't have an opinion at all but that their arguments about general MG skills etc were unecessary here as I was talking about particular riders. I thought I had made that clear. BoyS - more than one, doesn't mean all. KidS - more than one, doesn't mean all. Not sure what else to say really
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Yes, boyS - more that one - yet you say you were talking about two riders, one boy one girl - therefore boys is not congruent with your comments. I don't think you did make it clear, and I think that your posts are very derrogatory towards the sport as a whole. Therefore, people have a right to defend a sport they feel is being maligned on a public forum.

I don't see where your assertion that other posters are incapable of following an argument is relevant or constructive, to be honest. Yes, you were being rude - the fact that you realise and accept that makes it worse that you still feel it was an appropriate comment to make, in my opinion. Are you trying to belittle other posters, or just annoy them?
 
But JFTD I did say that the girl and the boy were 'particularly' annoying - suggesting that there WERE others that I didn't enjoy seeing ride too.

I submit because it seems that you are a better pedant than me. Oh and yes I am famed for being a member who seeks to belittle others......
 
DressageDiva1962 said:
I didnt see this yesterday either when I was there, but when I watched the Zinc Management class on TV today I did see Leon Thijssen giving his horse a proper yank at the finish it made very uncomfortable viewing !!
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I've only seen it on TV and it wasn't nice to see, pulling it's head round so far to the left that he was jumping sideaway I thought the horse was going to fall over and topple over a barrier/sign. There was even an awkward silence from the commentary who then stated that the rider didn't seem very happy with the performance. Slight understatement!
 
Agree.
what also annoys the hell out of me is when listening to the commentry from mike tucker on sky during the mounted games, every few minutes he would say 'now which of these young riders will be our next olympic stars' 'the pony club is fantastic organisation and every rider will have fantastic oppertunities' etc etc, just bigging up the pony club. It made me feel like just because i dont/never will/have done go to pony club, i or any other young rider has a whole lot less chance of making it in the equestrian world. The pony clubbers booted their horses the whole way to the line, the horses where going flat out gallop and yet they continued to fully boot them with their legs on the ponies hind quaters

It just makes me want to hit the big time and make a big point of saying you dont have yo have your own horse and be in the flipping pony club. :mad:
I have never had my own horse and out of pure luck and putting myself out there, ive managed to have myself riding racehorses every weekend (prior to that id been in a riding school all my life and its purely down the generosity of the trainer, dont think i would ever be able to repay him for the opportunity he has given me, and i know if i ever had the talent to make it as a pro jockey he would help me along the way)
 
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