Unofficial bridleway advice

[exracehorse]

Hi. The local horse riders have been going through or rather round the edge of an orchard for many years. It's an unofficial bridle way. Me, a good 15 years. Others 20 years. The land owner has now blocked entrance. I politely asked why and he refused to give an explanation. So, another route we can't use. And hacking is rubbish as it is. I've looked on the internet but only gives advice on blocked official routes. I guess there's nothing we can do 😢 Has anyone else had this problem and could perhaps give advice.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

there is something you can do. the historical evidence is important. I'm not sure if the cut off point for registering/investigating routes has been reached yet. I have the year of 2026 in my head. Contact the BHS and ask for the details of the local bridleways volunteer/access officer or whatever they're called now. They can give you advice on registering the route, gathering evidence for proof and getting it marked up officially as a bridleway. They can't do it all for you, there just aren't enough hours in the day, so you;ll need to be happy to get involved. The BHS know how to go about attending official meetings and how to present the evidence etc. Good luck.

 

[Goldenstar]

The bus is the place Friday advice I don't think twenty years is long enough

 

[Pigeon]

You could offer to compensate the guy in exchange for using his land?

 

[cowgirl16]

Can't give advice, but would suggest you speak to the rights of way people at the BHS and your local council. Something in the back of my tiny brain is saying that a path that has been used for a certain number of years may have established use rights. (?) Think you have to provide proof of it's being used in that time. (statements from users I would assume). Has the land ownership changed recently? Seems strange that the path would be blocked off after being used for so many years. Perhaps the owner has twigged that it's not an official bridleway and closed it off. Or maybe they have other plans for the land? Best of luck. We have to fight to keep these tracks open.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Whereabouts are you? Talk to your local access person. Historical use & proof of such may be enough to keep the path open.

 

[madamebonnie]

BHS, a similar thing has been happening near me recently. Huge area been used for probably 100 years, new land owners want to stop access. Find out how many other users there are...dog walkers, cyclists, start a Facebook group gathering everyone you can. Don't stop using it if possible. The BHS have lots of info and will help keep bridleways open x

 

[meleeka]

Can't give advice, but would suggest you speak to the rights of way people at the BHS and your local council. Something in the back of my tiny brain is saying that a path that has been used for a certain number of years may have established use rights. (?) Think you have to provide proof of it's being used in that time. (statements from users I would assume). Has the land ownership changed recently? Seems strange that the path would be blocked off after being used for so many years. Perhaps the owner has twigged that it's not an official bridleway and closed it off. Or maybe they have other plans for the land? Best of luck. We have to fight to keep these tracks open.

Yes the BHS can advise. They weren't willing to help here as they said it can take years and there's a road being built there in a couple of years anyway. There is things that can be done if there's historical use.

I'd suggest a meeting with the land owner. They might be willing to allow it on a permit basis in return for payment.

 

[OWLIE185]

You need to find as many people as possible who have ridden this route and get them to complete an evidence form. Your local BHS bridleway officer will only be to pleased to create the evidence form and assist you and if you let me know which Town and County this route is in I will let you know their contact details. Do not p.m. just reply to this post. Many thanks.

 

[laura_nash]

I don't think twenty years is long enough

Pretty sure 20 years is the required length (its called the "20 year rule" IIRC). The BHS have lots of info on this, the first thing to read would be the "Recording a right of way" leaflet which you can download from here: http://www.bhs.org.uk/access-and-bridleways/free-leaflets-and-advice. You need to decide if you have the time and energy to get this done as it will require a fair amount of both. Do try if you can though, especially if hacking is rubbish around you already.

You could offer to compensate the guy in exchange for using his land?

DO NOT do this if you or anyone else is going to pursue getting it recorded as a bridleway. I'm sure I was told if you arrange to pay for access (toll ride, permissive route, permit etc) then you are acknowledging that you don't have the right to unpaid access and this will make any attempt to get the path recorded as a bridleway much harder.

 

[exracehorse]

Can't give advice, but would suggest you speak to the rights of way people at the BHS and your local council. Something in the back of my tiny brain is saying that a path that has been used for a certain number of years may have established use rights. (?) Think you have to provide proof of it's being used in that time. (statements from users I would assume). Has the land ownership changed recently? Seems strange that the path would be blocked off after being used for so many years. Perhaps the owner has twigged that it's not an official bridleway and closed it off. Or maybe they have other plans for the land? Best of luck. We have to fight to keep these tracks open.

.
He wouldn't tell me. Became quite rude. It's an overgrown orchard not being worked anymore. It's been used for yonks. He put a wooden apple crate up on its side and wrote in chalk 'no access'. The family have owned the land for simply ages and have had a good relationship with the local horse riders. The farm shop has shut now that was near by so, perhaps he is selling. I asked what harm we were doing and he threw his arms around and stomped off, leaving me in my horse feeling embarrassed and shocked at the loss of another route. The local livery yard riders are upset as well.

 

[exracehorse]

Whereabouts are you? Talk to your local access person. Historical use & proof of such may be enough to keep the path open.

Suffolk.

 

[jumping.jack_flash]

Contact the Council - although be prepared that they are slow in helping. What about the BHS?

We went to the local paper when the land owner changed the surface of a well known track from grass and mud to some solid scalpings.. gave all the rubbish about the track being used for the general public, when in fact he needed it for lorries to go up and down on...

So whatever you do.. bring it to the attention of the public... and council.. as if you do end up losing this right.. it makes it difficult in the future for 'other' sites to disappear so easily ; )

Good luck.

 

[lamlyn2012]

If you can prove 20 years uninterrupted use it should constitute a Right of Way by prescription.
Maybe the Landowner is wanting to sell the land and a RoW may make it less attractive to a purchaser.

 

[limestonelil]

But OP says it is unofficial. So the right to use it does not exist. Shouldn't you count yourselves lucky you were left alone in the past and had the use of the land. Didn't CROW act put an end to claiming higher/non-existent rights? Popsdosh might have info.

 

[lamlyn2012]

But OP says it is unofficial. So the right to use it does not exist. Shouldn't you count yourselves lucky you were left alone in the past and had the use of the land. Didn't CROW act put an end to claiming higher/non-existent rights? Popsdosh might have info.

Our Parish Council stopped a development on a two acre site as it had been used as public open space for 20 years plus.

 

[jrp204]

But OP says it is unofficial. So the right to use it does not exist. Shouldn't you count yourselves lucky you were left alone in the past and had the use of the land. Didn't CROW act put an end to claiming higher/non-existent rights? Popsdosh might have info.

Agree with this, it is not a PROW, you have been lucky to get away with effectively trespassing for years. If the owner now chooses to stop HIS land been ridden on that is his prerogative. He could be liable for an accident on his land why should he spend out on public liability to cover riders that do not have permission or the right to use it.
I would totally be against someone stopping access to a PROW but since this isn't a designated bridleway I would also be against trying to push through an access claim.

 

[PeterNatt]

If this route is in Suffolk then your bridleway officer is Jean Lywood Tel: 01284 752595 and she can produce an evidence form for you so that you can get each rider that has used the route to complete an evidence form. The completed ones can then be used to make a claim for this route as it of being of public bridleway status and then riders in the future will be able to continue to use the route. Please make a note of the date when the bridleway was first obstructed by the landowner. If you require any further asistance then don't hesitate to contact me.

 

[Dave's Mam]

But OP says it is unofficial. So the right to use it does not exist. Shouldn't you count yourselves lucky you were left alone in the past and had the use of the land. Didn't CROW act put an end to claiming higher/non-existent rights? Popsdosh might have info.

A RoW can be "Assumed".
Could you use the route without barrier, without hiding, without discretion?

20 years odds of a route being "Open Access" as such can indeed make it a RoW.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

But OP says it is unofficial. So the right to use it does not exist. Shouldn't you count yourselves lucky you were left alone in the past and had the use of the land. Didn't CROW act put an end to claiming higher/non-existent rights? Popsdosh might have info.

It doesn't work like that. A Right Of Way can be created by a long enough period of unofficial use. If a landowner wanted to allow people access on a temporary basis that landowner should create a Permissive Route, these can't be turned into PROWs and can be closed at any time by nothing more than the landowners wishes. The Act you mention isn't finalised yet. The logging of historical routes takes time, so a period was allowed to do that. Once the deadline has passed then yes, all historic rights not yet recorded will be lost forever.

 

[Dave's Mam]

It doesn't work like that. A Right Of Way can be created by a long enough period of unofficial use. If a landowner wanted to allow people access on a temporary basis that landowner should create a Permissive Route, these can't be turned into PROWs and can be closed at any time by nothing more than the landowners wishes. The Act you mention isn't finalised yet. The logging of historical routes takes time, so a period was allowed to do that. Once the deadline has passed then yes, all historic rights not yet recorded will be lost forever.

2026. Get your Access Officer onside & get use of the route recorded. I'll go up & get my books in a moment, once I finish dinner.

 

[Dave's Mam]

It's known as "Presumed Dedication". See link below. It's from the Ramblers, but those guys know their stuff.

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/i...eating-a-right-of-way.aspx#presumeddedication

 

[Mike007]

So the guy lets people use his land for a number of years and as soon as he decides not to ,folk seek to claim a right of way.I hope he hasnt left it too late, what right do any of the riders have to his land,NONE! A right of way will devalue his land.

 

[bonny]

So the guy lets people use his land for a number of years and as soon as he decides not to ,folk seek to claim a right of way.I hope he hasnt left it too late, what right do any of the riders have to his land,NONE! A right of way will devalue his land.

would you rather just not have any rights of way ?

 

[Dave's Mam]

So the guy lets people use his land for a number of years and as soon as he decides not to ,folk seek to claim a right of way.I hope he hasnt left it too late, what right do any of the riders have to his land,NONE! A right of way will devalue his land.

Given the timescale given, a "Presumed" RoW can indeed be in place. Now proof is needed.

 

[Mike007]

would you rather just not have any rights of way ?

Not if they are all obtained like this!

 

[Dave's Mam]

So, if you have used a route for more than 20 years & no one has ever blocked, confronted you & you've never needed to break entry or go by deception & suddenly that route is blocked, you'd not be a bit confused if not miffed?

If the owner had an exception to the route being used, 20 years is time enough to say no. If they didn't mind for a "While" they could have made a "Permissive Route" that they could close whenever they wanted.

 

[Mike007]

So, if you have used a route for more than 20 years & no one has ever blocked, confronted you & you've never needed to break entry or go by deception & suddenly that route is blocked, you'd not be a bit confused if not miffed?

If the owner had an exception to the route being used, 20 years is time enough to say no. If they didn't mind for a "While" they could have made a "Permissive Route" that they could close whenever they wanted.

So essentially ,what you are saying is that if someone is not sufficiently clued up and streetwise and just lets folk ride over their land out of generosity , then we should take advantage of them . Very nice , very nice indeed. I would guess that someone has said to the land owner ,"do you realise that those ********s could claim a right of way across your land!"

 

[Dave's Mam]

Look at the Ramblers link I posted.

 

[Mike007]

Look at the Ramblers link I posted.

having had some experience of the "Ramblers association"I would advise anyone to steer well clear. It helps to think of them as Fascists that like walking (on other peoples land)