Unofficial bridleway advice

[popsdosh]

If this route is in Suffolk then your bridleway officer is Jean Lywood Tel: 01284 752595 and she can produce an evidence form for you so that you can get each rider that has used the route to complete an evidence form. The completed ones can then be used to make a claim for this route as it of being of public bridleway status and then riders in the future will be able to continue to use the route. Please make a note of the date when the bridleway was first obstructed by the landowner. If you require any further asistance then don't hesitate to contact me.

The bridleway hasnt been blocked by the landowner though has it !
It is private land that has no statutory right of access. He is perfectly entitled to do what he has and now he has done it and made it clear it is private land it is to late . Is it really worth all the ill feeling that will go with this. OP I hope he sets up an encampment in your garden and puts the boot on the other foot. This is the exact reason us farmers wont let casual riders onto our land.

 

[popsdosh]

It doesn't work like that. A Right Of Way can be created by a long enough period of unofficial use. If a landowner wanted to allow people access on a temporary basis that landowner should create a Permissive Route, these can't be turned into PROWs and can be closed at any time by nothing more than the landowners wishes. The Act you mention isn't finalised yet. The logging of historical routes takes time, so a period was allowed to do that. Once the deadline has passed then yes, all historic rights not yet recorded will be lost forever.

Thats the main reason he will have shut off access all farmers have been warned to do so. All he has to say is that there was a break in access even for one day and the counting starts again . He is not responsible for proving anything those claiming access have to.

 

[popsdosh]

having had some experience of the "Ramblers association"I would advise anyone to steer well clear. It helps to think of them as Fascists that like walking (on other peoples land)

Spot on!!!! We have a footpath we are trying to divert as the footpath as it stands comes to a dead end at a railway that has now had the crossing closed. We have offered a good route thats even can be upgraded to bridleway, However the RA wanted the new footpath but objected to the old one being closed. Guess what they ended up with ? A footpath that ends next to a railway line with access both sides blocked . They are total idiots everybody suffers.
All these footpaths and rights of way come at a cost ! ie nearly 2k for that paperwork which has to be paid by the landowner even if its for public use.

 

[Cecile]

Spot on!!!! We have a footpath we are trying to divert as the footpath as it stands comes to a dead end at a railway that has now had the crossing closed. We have offered a good route thats even can be upgraded to bridleway, However the RA wanted the new footpath but objected to the old one being closed. Guess what they ended up with ? A footpath that ends next to a railway line with access both sides blocked . They are total idiots everybody suffers.
All these footpaths and rights of way come at a cost ! ie nearly 2k for that paperwork which has to be paid by the landowner even if its for public use.

Indeed and very true ^^

There is always 2 sides to every story

http://www.intrusivefootpaths.org.uk/

I have been asked to sign these so called Evidence forms that I have ridden on land for x amount of years, absolute tosh as I have never been near it, in some instances it's like a legal and encouraged disgraceful land grab

The legal PRoW we have now can't even be maintained correctly (Central gov pay for this to local gov dept's) so this ever increasing claim for more land which was actually bought and paid for by the owners is almost obscene, PRoW were originally to go from village to village, to a church or in the whole scheme of things needed as people didn't have 2 cars sitting on their driveway, now its become for leisure and recreation with the whole countryside being turned into an adventure playground.

I love the countryside and enjoy walking sometimes but would I walk through a garden or go where I am not wanted or intrude into people's lives, not a chance!

I really feel for the people who are having new claims made across their property, I find the whole thing rather sordid and sad

 

[FestiveFuzz]

OP I think in your shoes I would be thankful for the years of usage the owner allowed and now accept that for whatever reasons they no longer wish to allow riders access. It wouldn't sit right with me to pursue a PROW of someone's private land.

 

[sywell]

Claiming a ROW through a DMMO is difficult because it will cost the council £5000 minimun in legal fees and my local authority has a list of DMMOs that will take it 10 years due to the reduction of difinative map officers so the sooner you start getting the written evidence the better.

 

[limestonelil]

having had some experience of the "Ramblers association"I would advise anyone to steer well clear. It helps to think of them as Fascists that like walking (on other peoples land)

Well not all of them but I very very well know what you mean! Love the expression.

 

[popsdosh]

OP I think in your shoes I would be thankful for the years of usage the owner allowed and now accept that for whatever reasons they no longer wish to allow riders access. It wouldn't sit right with me to pursue a PROW of someone's private land.

Thats the exact point put the boot on the other foot would you still be happy OP.

 

[AandK]

OP I think in your shoes I would be thankful for the years of usage the owner allowed and now accept that for whatever reasons they no longer wish to allow riders access. It wouldn't sit right with me to pursue a PROW of someone's private land.

I have to agree. It's one thing if someone is blocking a bridleway that is already there, but it does not sit right with me to campaign to force this private land to become a PRoW.

 

[jumping.jack_flash]

but IF the land has been used as a bridleway for 20 years - then WHY now stop it. Farmers are not really Farmers anymore, but property developers - especially in the area I'm in.

A Farmer bought a house and the land.. and then closed the access that led directly to the woods.... but what I don't get is... why do they buy these places knowing foot paths have been going through / bridle ways.. is it really that easy to block them off ?

 

[TheMule]

I'm on the land owner's side.
I bought a piece of land last year with a footpath going up through it. I have no problem with people enjoying the footpath, I do have a problem with people letting their dogs run amock on my land, crapping everything, littering etc. I fenced the path in so the path was useable and I could use the field without worrying about the horses and some people were incredibly rude. I did it well within legal limits and yet I'm still having problems with a couple of dog walkers who pop their dogs over the stock fence to let them run through the fields, even with young foals in. Their answer? They've been doing it for years so why should they stop now? I just hope my mare doesn't kill their dog when it gets close to the foal.....
It is someone else's land, not yours. Respect their right to privacy.

 

[jumping.jack_flash]

Actually that's a good point... if the path that's been used for 20 years as a bridle way could still be used as a bridle way.. I wonder IF it could be fenced off?

As to 'The Mules' problem.. I too would be really peeved off IF people were allowing their dogs to run all over my land..... I would put electric fencing on top, the sort that angles over your side.... so making it difficult for hem to lean over without getting a little zap. Also I would continue the stock fencing so their dogs can not get back out...... ; )

 

[laura_nash]

So the guy lets people use his land for a number of years and as soon as he decides not to ,folk seek to claim a right of way.I hope he hasnt left it too late, what right do any of the riders have to his land,NONE! A right of way will devalue his land.

That is a big assumption. Obviously we don't know this location and it might well be true that someone started trespassing on his land 20 years ago and then more joined in. On the other hand it is also quite possible that there IS a right of way over the land, one that has been around for hundreds of years even, and it was just not recorded on the definitive map when it was compiled. The map was compiled by fallible people with limited time and resources and there are plenty of rights of way that were simply missed or were recorded incorrectly as footpaths rather than bridleways. We have until 2026 to get these recorded / corrected.

I am always amazed at how many people don't actually check they have the right to ride somewhere though. The BHS have been asking people to check the routes they use for years now, and contact them for help if any that people think are PROW's aren't on the map. I do wonder how many more people are going to be "embarrassed and shocked at the loss of another route" come 2026 because they haven't got around to checking.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Thats the main reason he will have shut off access all farmers have been warned to do so. All he has to say is that there was a break in access even for one day and the counting starts again . He is not responsible for proving anything those claiming access have to.

I didn't say he had to prove anything. I agree those claiming access have to prove it is a right of way, hence my post.

Farmers can try shutting off whatever access they like, but if they shut off a right of way they'll be made to reopen it. Previously unrecorded rights of way just take more proving that this is what they are, and more time to do so, that's all.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

but IF the land has been used as a bridleway for 20 years - then WHY now stop it. Farmers are not really Farmers anymore, but property developers - especially in the area I'm in.

A Farmer bought a house and the land.. and then closed the access that led directly to the woods.... but what I don't get is... why do they buy these places knowing foot paths have been going through / bridle ways.. is it really that easy to block them off ?

Yes, they simply block it and hope nobody complains. Then after a period of time, if nobody has complained, they apply to officially downgrade the path eg from bridleway to footpath, or they apply to close the path altogether. They do it because PROWs on the land devalues it. Also because some people aren't considerate when using PROWs, so many landowners would simply prefer to not have the hassle of people on their land at all.

That's why if you find a path blocked deliberately it's important to report it and fight to get it opened. Same for paths which are impassable due to undergrowth/fallen trees etc, it's important to get them cleared (even if that means a group of you doing it yourselves) so it can continue to be used. Once paths fall into disuse they're under threat of being closed.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I have to agree. It's one thing if someone is blocking a bridleway that is already there, but it does not sit right with me to campaign to force this private land to become a PRoW.

The whole point is that nobody is trying to force it to *become* a PROW. It either already is or it isn't. That is the dispute. It's possible for a PROW to exist but to have never been recorded. If it *is* a PROW and that can be proved, then it will be recorded and he will have to unblock it.

 

[AandK]

The whole point is that nobody is trying to force it to *become* a PROW. It either already is or it isn't. That is the dispute. It's possible for a PROW to exist but to have never been recorded. If it *is* a PROW and that can be proved, then it will be recorded and he will have to unblock it.

This thread is full of posters saying you can get it made a PRoW if people have been using it for so long. Unless I have missed something?
From the OP, it looks like the landowner has been letting people ride on the land but has decided to put a stop to it.

 

[exracehorse]

The whole point is that nobody is trying to force it to *become* a PROW. It either already is or it isn't. That is the dispute. It's possible for a PROW to exist but to have never been recorded. If it *is* a PROW and that can be proved, then it will be recorded and he will have to unblock it.

. Exactly. No one wants to cause trouble. It's a small hamlet really. 6 weeks ago, I noticed gates going up. I asked the chap present and said, crikey, does that mean we can hack through anymore? He said, oh no, it doesn't effect you. The owners are leaving a space to get your horses around. They know
The horses come past and don't want to upset the local horsey folk. As I said, people have hacked that route for more years than I have and that's 15 years. Used to take my daughter round on lead rope when she was 5. She's now 22. The land is slowly being sold off. The farm shop is being turned into a house. Goodness what will happen to the huge orchards. It's just so odd that with no reason we've been stopped access. I asked the owner. When he stopped me. As was obviously surprised. But he refused to say why. I realise it's his prerogative. The local horsey folk dont want to cause any rifts. There are only a handful of us. I'm only two on my yard fir instance. But there is obviously a change happening. I keep hearing about different possible new ownership. Hence why I wondered, if after a certain period of time, and regularly used, it could be clauses as a bridle way. And no one has ever tresspassed. One of the local horse riders used to work for the family business. She's as shocked as me. There was always a cheery wave from the the fruit pickers and owners alike. No one in over 20 years has ever been asked to not ride. The fruit pickers have gone. The trees are overgrown. I don't know what's happened. I truely feel sorry for the family as the shop was a delight. Literally next to my yard. So I miss the hot chocolate takeaways and slices of cake.

 

[HanniRT]

but IF the land has been used as a bridleway for 20 years - then WHY now stop it. Farmers are not really Farmers anymore, but property developers - especially in the area I'm in.

A Farmer bought a house and the land.. and then closed the access that led directly to the woods.... but what I don't get is... why do they buy these places knowing foot paths have been going through / bridle ways.. is it really that easy to block them off ?

"Farmers aren't farmers anymore". I'll be sure to pass your sentiments on to all in my family that still farm, and my friends that do too. They are sadly under the delusion that they 'farm'.

I completely agree with Popsdosh and Mike. It's a thin end of the wedge. It is his land, he has the right to stop people riding on it, I hope. I abhor the state of so many bridleways and that is an issue that needs to be tackled but not like this.

 

[ester]

I think turning it into a PROW has been the wrong terminology, it is more recording an existing one that has been missed, there are plenty hence the current regulations. There was one near me that was clearly and old road to winchester, with mile stones etc.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

So the guy lets people use his land for a number of years and as soon as he decides not to ,folk seek to claim a right of way.I hope he hasnt left it too late, what right do any of the riders have to his land,NONE! A right of way will devalue his land.

The whole point is that many rights of way have not been accurately recorded on local maps and may well have been used for many years before the statutory 20 that is required for a claim.

 

[Cecile]

I'm on the land owner's side.
I bought a piece of land last year with a footpath going up through it. I have no problem with people enjoying the footpath, I do have a problem with people letting their dogs run amock on my land, crapping everything, littering etc. I fenced the path in so the path was useable and I could use the field without worrying about the horses and some people were incredibly rude. I did it well within legal limits and yet I'm still having problems with a couple of dog walkers who pop their dogs over the stock fence to let them run through the fields, even with young foals in. Their answer? They've been doing it for years so why should they stop now? I just hope my mare doesn't kill their dog when it gets close to the foal.....
It is someone else's land, not yours. Respect their right to privacy.

I can never work out why some dog walkers do this, they are breaking the law as they cannot be in control of the dog if they are one side of the fence and the dog is on the other, they just give everyone a bad name
Sorry you had the expense of having to fence it all off and it still doesn't stop the idiots. Who in their right mind would pop a dog over a fence with horses in the field, borrow a couple of alpaca's for a week that should sort the problem out

 

[PeterNatt]

The first thing to check out is to see if this route is marked on the definative map as a public right of way. The definitive map is the map held by the local county council of all existing public rights of way. To determine this get in touch with the definative map officer at the local county council. It could for instance be recorded as a public footpath.
The next thing would be to get anyone that has used this route to complete an evidence form and these can be then used when making an application to record the route as a public right of way.
Historic Research would also need to be done to establish if this route existed many years ago.
Once all this is done then if there is sufficient evidence of the public using the route for more than 20 years and also historic research to demonstrate that this route has existed many years prior to this then an application can be made to record this route as a public right of way of a particular status such as Public Footpath, Public Bridleway or Restricted Byway.