Unreasonable?

marydoll said:
I can muck out 3 shavings deep litter and mats do nets and turnout in an hour
I cant believe someone wants £12 to do a stable at a yard :eek:
Click to expand...

I don't think of shavings on deep litter as mucking out though! Dead easy.. It depends how far away the field is too.

I think a good groom and piece of mind is worth its weight in gold and worth the money, personally. I would want rugs changing and haynets doing too for that much though. Although at £15/day you could just have the horse on full livery... Might be worth it?
 
Actually no billie1007 I'm not self employed (not that its any of tour business). I just intensely dislike workers being used and abused by people who basically want to pay their staff cash in hand, meaning their employees have no rights, often get treated as little more than slaves and it takes a chance of employment away from someone who refuses to be treated like dirt.

You can't have it both ways, you're either an employer or you're hiring someone self employed. If an employee can work in an office or shop 8hrs per day with a lunch hour and be paid min wage for those 8hrs work, why should the self employed person not be paid for their travel time? Why should the freelance groom have to give up 16hrs of their time (assuming a 15min journey there and back to a half hour job) just so they can earn 8hrs wages at min wage? You think that's reasonable?

It's not 30 pounds per hour the person is charging, read my first post again, there are expenses to be met if you're self employed that you don't have as an employee.

People who try to take advantage of others make me very cross.
 
Wow. I can't quote you Sugar and Spice but I'm not entirely sure I deserved that with both barrels! And I am not sure which part of my posts lead you to suspect that I want to pay peanuts! I want to pay a fair price but imo 15 pounds is too much. That's ok for me to feel that way...... It's just my opinion.
 
Billie1007 not sure if the peanuts bit was aimed at me but i didnt say you were expecting to pay peanuts - i was just saying that someone i know does the same amount of work but for 2 horses for a LOT less than £15 - which imo is most definately peanuts!!!
 
The bit where you ask if 15 pounds is reasonable, seem shocked at the price and think it equates to 30 pounds an hour. That's the bit that leads me to think you want to pay peanuts. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, as am I.
 
Honey08 said:
I don't think of shavings on deep litter as mucking out though! Dead easy.. It depends how far away the field is too.

I think a good groom and piece of mind is worth its weight in gold and worth the money, personally. I would want rugs changing and haynets doing too for that much though. Although at £15/day you could just have the horse on full livery... Might be worth it?
Click to expand...

It is mucking out if done properly with fresh shavings over daily, but even still a full bed muck out 10-15 mins tops and thats knocking up the bed to dry the floor no way its worth £15 if the op has nets ready and doesnt want rugs changed.
Assuming the field is close by the job can be done in 30 mins. Thats a nice earner if you can get it
 
OR do what a lot of other people do, get yourself some overalls,get out 1/2 hour earlier,turn out muck out,strip off overalls, put on high heels and you are good to go, simples:D:DDid it for many years when I worked.
 
I don't think it is particularly unreasonable, no.

I do a little bit of freelance grooming and I only charge slightly less than that for doing one visit in a day - and it can be more depending on travel time.

For me, factoring in a 15/20 minute journey each way, plus then 45 minutes to 1 hour at the yard, and petrol costs as well, it wouldn't be worth doing it for any less.

It's one thing if you're already at the yard, but once you consider travel time, it has to be worthwhile somebody doing!
 
marydoll said:
It is mucking out if done properly with fresh shavings over daily, but even still a full bed muck out 10-15 mins tops and thats knocking up the bed to dry the floor no way its worth £15 if the op has nets ready and doesnt want rugs changed.
Assuming the field is close by the job can be done in 30 mins. Thats a nice earner if you can get it
Click to expand...

No it isn't a nice earner if you think about it. It may take you another 45 mins to get to the next job, so you'd only earn about 4 hours work a day.. You might have two mucking out jobs like this, then a couple of hours teaching if you're lucky, or the odd clip to do. Also the work drops off in bad weather. I seriously thought about it a year or two ago. I asked my freelance groom what she earned a year, she charged £12/hour. she earned £10k a year. Thats a 25yr old with a house to run. Not great money.
 
Also just to add that I muck out every morning in my work clothes - put a coat over the top and put some yard boots on. As long as you're not rolling around in the stable I can't see how you'd get that dirty!
 
Thanks for the input. I did recently think about doing the jobs in the morning and brilliant father in law got me some bright green John Deere overalls from work for me :). I guess this doesn't solve the bringing in. Back to the drawing board. Frustrating since I could have gone to a truly 5* yard on five day livery for 100 a week! Just wasn't right in other ways though.

Ho hum, will think about some of the suggestions so thank you!
 
Honey08 said:
No it isn't a nice earner if you think about it. It may take you another 45 mins to get to the next job, so you'd only earn about 4 hours work a day.. You might have two mucking out jobs like this, then a couple of hours teaching if you're lucky, or the odd clip to do. Also the work drops off in bad weather. I seriously thought about it a year or two ago. I asked my freelance groom what she earned a year, she charged £12/hour. she earned £10k a year. Thats a 25yr old with a house to run. Not great money.
Click to expand...

If you can get the work in the one area, at £15 for 30 mins work, thats a nice earner in my book, yes i agree its different if youve to travel all over to fill your day but as an individual if i was hiring help, id be interested in what i was getting for my money, and tbh hard as it sounds to you, its not up to me to pay travel costs, so id be looking for someone local if i was the op, or id be donning my overalls and getting on with it because personally i wouldnt pay £15 for 1 stable muckout and a turnout
 
marydoll said:
If you can get the work in the one area, at £15 for 30 mins work, thats a nice earner in my book, yes i agree its different if youve to travel all over to fill your day but as an individual if i was hiring help, id be interested in what i was getting for my money, and tbh hard as it sounds to you, its not up to me to pay travel costs, so id be looking for someone local if i was the op, or id be donning my overalls and getting on with it because personally i wouldnt pay £15 for 1 stable muckout and a turnout
Click to expand...

sorry to keep picking your points up, its not personal!

Have you ever tried to find anyone local? Its not easy. When our freelance girl decided to go get a proper job as she wasn't making enough to live on, we have been looking for over six months to find a replacement. They're like rocking horse droppings or they're totally unreliable..

Paticularly when you have your own yard, a good freelance is worth their weight in gold - someone you trust if you go away etc.

If I went freelance I would charge £12/hr. If several people on one yard wanted help I would give a discount. But of course they should cover their travel, if they weren't why would they bother.. That is what you're paying for - and the fact that they're insured etc. Grooms earn a pittance.
 
Honey08 said:
sorry to keep picking your points up, its not personal!

Have you ever tried to find anyone local? Its not easy. When our freelance girl decided to go get a proper job as she wasn't making enough to live on, we have been looking for over six months to find a replacement. They're like rocking horse droppings or they're totally unreliable..

Paticularly when you have your own yard, a good freelance is worth their weight in gold - someone you trust if you go away etc.

If I went freelance I would charge £12/hr. If several people on one yard wanted help I would give a discount. But of course they should cover their travel, if they weren't why would they bother.. That is what you're paying for - and the fact that they're insured etc. Grooms earn a pittance.
Click to expand...

I do my own horses and am also a qualified groom but i wouldnt charge that to do 1 muckout and turnout. The reason i didnt choose it as a career was because the pay wasnt good, lets not lose sight that the op wants one bed done and a turnout imo not worth £15
 
Erm buy a head torch & bring in when you get there about 4.30.....a bit of rain & cold won't hurt after all they are animals not human & designed to live out!! Sometimes my boy doesn't come in till 10pm or later due to my shift hours. I also muck out etc before an early shift....I just use waterproofs etc to keep uniform clean
 
@AmyMay - this isn't about be not offering time to the horse. I would go down everyday regardless. This is about me wanting my horse in earlier during the Winter because I am a soft sod and would rather know she was in her bed from 2pm than waiting for me at the gate in the wind and rain at 5pm. I have always been on DIY and always seen to her everyday. I appear to have taken umbridge (is that even a word?) At the suggestion that I don't have time to offer her. This is about alternative arrangements not about me having days off - if the horse is in earlier, I would feel better, she would have a break from the weather before being groomed, ridden (by my rider) and put to bed.
 
I honestly don't think I'd worry about bringing her in at 2pm, especially if the others stay out until 4.30pm - she'll be fine! She's at the gate at 4.30pm because she knows that when you fetch her, not because she wants to be in earlier - unless she's standing at the gate for hours a day, she's only there at that time out of habit :)

And for the money being talked about on here, you'd definitely be better off on part or even full livery somewhere!
 
Billie1007 said:
@AmyMay - this isn't about be not offering time to the horse. I would go down everyday regardless. This is about me wanting my horse in earlier during the Winter because I am a soft sod and would rather know she was in her bed from 2pm than waiting for me at the gate in the wind and rain at 5pm. I have always been on DIY and always seen to her everyday. I appear to have taken umbridge (is that even a word?) At the suggestion that I don't have time to offer her. This is about alternative arrangements not about me having days off - if the horse is in earlier, I would feel better, she would have a break from the weather before being groomed, ridden (by my rider) and put to bed.
Click to expand...

Obviously you can do what you wish, but 4.30 isn't exactly a 'late' bring in. Is your horse a cob? (just looking at avatar pic?

Put a full neck turnout on her and she will be just fine.

Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting help with her, but to find someone who is free every day at 2pm, you're probably going to have to pay a decent amount for it :)
 
Agreed. I wonder if I am basing my concern on last year's experience. No grass, fighting horses at the gate in the dark - am now at a different yard with TOO much grass so I may find that she doesn't even want to come in at 4.30pm. Just a worrier I guess. Thanks all, haven't meant to sound defensive. I guess I imagined I would pay between 40-50 pounds a week for this and it seems clear from your experiences that it would be much more. Will plod on :)
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
Actually no billie1007 I'm not self employed (not that its any of tour business). I just intensely dislike workers being used and abused by people who basically want to pay their staff cash in hand, meaning their employees have no rights, often get treated as little more than slaves and it takes a chance of employment away from someone who refuses to be treated like dirt.

You can't have it both ways, you're either an employer or you're hiring someone self employed. If an employee can work in an office or shop 8hrs per day with a lunch hour and be paid min wage for those 8hrs work, why should the self employed person not be paid for their travel time? Why should the freelance groom have to give up 16hrs of their time (assuming a 15min journey there and back to a half hour job) just so they can earn 8hrs wages at min wage? You think that's reasonable?

It's not 30 pounds per hour the person is charging, read my first post again, there are expenses to be met if you're self employed that you don't have as an employee.

People who try to take advantage of others make me very cross.
Click to expand...

Bit OTT!!! Everyone has travel to work, and if it's too far out their way then they don't have to take it! Yes I do think £15 per day is too much for the work she wants doing, If I could get £15 for 1\2 hours work...well I'd be in there like a shot!!!
 
The person you hire is making their living from this so it has to be worth their while. If you were able to offer a full time or half day job you could pay less an hour but given that you want a tiny job done you need to compensate someone for their time.

One solution is to find who helps out at the local private yards. When I've had a part time groom, she's always picked up a couple of other jobs locally and done 3 yards, for example, in a day, some only mornings, some only bring in, etc. That way her travel costs were low and all three small jobs made up a full time post in terms of earnings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top