Unreasonable?

Billie1007 said:
@AmyMay - this isn't about be not offering time to the horse. I would go down everyday regardless. This is about me wanting my horse in earlier during the Winter because I am a soft sod and would rather know she was in her bed from 2pm than waiting for me at the gate in the wind and rain at 5pm. I have always been on DIY and always seen to her everyday. I appear to have taken umbridge (is that even a word?) At the suggestion that I don't have time to offer her. This is about alternative arrangements not about me having days off - if the horse is in earlier, I would feel better, she would have a break from the weather before being groomed, ridden (by my rider) and put to bed.
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Ah, I must have got the wrong end of the stick - apols. I thought from your previous post that mornings were as quick and as hands off as possible, and you only wanted 15 mins from someone in the evening. And I totally understand not wanting the horse stood at the gate at 5.00pm when everything else is in and the weather is foul. My horses have always been brought in for me during the winter from around 3.30 for exactly the same reason.

Personally in your shoes, I'd still go with doing the horse yourself in the morning (as suggested, farm clothes, and then change in to work clothes) and then have a friend to bring in with theirs.
 
amymay said:
Ah, I must have got the wrong end of the stick - apols. I thought from your previous post that mornings were as quick and as hands off as possible, and you only wanted 15 mins from someone in the evening. And I totally understand not wanting the horse stood at the gate at 5.00pm when everything else is in and the weather is foul. My horses have always been brought in for me during the winter from around 3.30 for exactly the same reason.

Personally in your shoes, I'd still go with doing the horse yourself in the morning (as suggested, farm clothes, and then change in to work clothes) and then have a friend to bring in with theirs.
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No worries :) I think I will explore the possibility of someone from the next yard coming or just face it and see what she is like at 5pm in the wind and rain. It may be a whole different ball game at this place - she is very settled in herself and has even been known to stand for a cuddle now (previously unheard of :) )
 
Most self-employed people have a minimum charge, so that could be based on a minimum of an hour. So you could maybe change the plan so that you feed and turn your horse out, and the "freelance" comes along in the afternoon, mucks out and brings your horse in. At least you'd get more value for money.
I do some self-employed work (not with horses) and have a minimum charge of one hour. It's not worth the hassle and travel trying to do the odd half hours and charge for that.
 
Tinypony said:
Most self-employed people have a minimum charge, so that could be based on a minimum of an hour. So you could maybe change the plan so that you feed and turn your horse out, and the "freelance" comes along in the afternoon, mucks out and brings your horse in. At least you'd get more value for money.
I do some self-employed work (not with horses) and have a minimum charge of one hour. It's not worth the hassle and travel trying to do the odd half hours and charge for that.
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Hi TP - that was the plan, I would do mornings and the quote for £15 was for a muck out and bring in in the afternoon......

I do understand about the minimum charge and that people need to make a living.... I was just hoping it wasn't going to be £15! :)
 
Billie1007 said:
No worries :) I think I will explore the possibility of someone from the next yard coming or just face it and see what she is like at 5pm in the wind and rain. It may be a whole different ball game at this place - she is very settled in herself and has even been known to stand for a cuddle now (previously unheard of :) )
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Can't someone at the yard just bring her in for you?
 
amymay said:
Can't someone at the yard just bring her in for you?
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Unfortunately there is nobody there at that time. People will arrive from 4.30ish. They bring in from about 5pm - don't think they are as precious as me :) That said, she hasn't seen a rug yet this autumn!
 
Billie1007 said:
Unfortunately there is nobody there at that time. People will arrive from 4.30ish. They bring in from about 5pm - don't think they are as precious as me :) That said, she hasn't seen a rug yet this autumn!
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Ah, well hang on a minute then. If your horse is not being left alone, then really what is the issue??
 
How about speaking to the other liveries & seeing if anyone else would be interested in the same routine? If there were a few of you all offering a freelance work at the same time, the split cost would be less.
 
amymay said:
Ah, well hang on a minute then. If your horse is not being left alone, then really what is the issue??
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I never said she would be out alone ;)

The issue is me. I am 25 miles away at work at I just get anxious when it starts lashing it down and I know she is out there. Whether she is conditioned to it or not I know her and I know she LOVES her bed. I would just much rather she came in earlier - it is just for my peace of mind.

I find that I am distracted at work, rush to get home in unsafe driving conditions and it is all a bit stressful. It is just me being silly but it is just the way I am :)

But, this worry is based on the experience of the last two winters. NO grass, standing by the gate by lunch time and a fair bit of bargy action around the gate.... it could well be different this time round!
 
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Fwiw £15 for two trips to the yard to do naf all is fair I think, as the reality for that person is that that's at least an hour committed to you even if they are doing other jobs nearby by the time they have travelled to and from your yard (7.5 mins per trip). In accepting your hour long job they risk having to turn down someone in the future offering them 4 hours for that time period. Then they need to take out of that petrol and insurance, and pay tax, NI, buy suitable clothing and PPE, they need the admin time to do accounts and all those little texts and conversations with owners add up time and expense. She has to pay herself enough to have the equivalent of 4 weeks holiday per year. Then owners are quite likely to just add in small jobs, so she finds herself filling haynets when previously they were done, treating the odd wound, fixing fencing... it isn't uncommon. Owners will also not expect to pay any more for if the horse is a sod to catch and takes an hour extra one day, or if the groom has to wait for a vet to arrive in an emergency. It really isn't as straightforward as "She wants £30 per hour!"

In any case I really do feel you are humanising your horse :) she is an animal who unless she has behavioural problems or medical reasons would be far better off for being in a field for as long as possible, even in wind and rain compared to her stable. As humans our logic would take us into the stable, but horses have evolved to move more than a stable allows, to graze often and to be more relaxed when they can see all around rather than in the stable. Bringing in at 2pm means you are asking your horse to be in the stable for what, 18 hours per day, and only out in the more natural environment for her, for 6 hours. If there is plenty of grass, an established herd, sufficient room and all the horses stay out until the same time, I really would urge you to leave her out, and that combined with a quick change of clothes in the car in the morning (many of us do it and babywipes are my recommendation ;)) and you've solved your own problem.
 
I freelsnced a few years ago before I got ill, I had to feed, change rugs, turnout, muck out and then go back up later and get in, change rugs and feed.
Because I had a couple of jobs in the area and it wasn't far from my horses I didn't charge peterol and because it was a group of 4 horses I charged £7 a day per horse! But if it's just one horse and out of the way of all the other jobs they do you can see how it adds up to £15 with peterol and time to get to you
 
Psst... She probably also LOVES likkits, but you wouldn't let her have too many of those, would you, because you know grass and hay is much better for her ;) same principal :)
 
Naturally said:
Fwiw £15 for two trips to the yard to do naf all is fair I think, as the reality for that person is that that's at least an hour committed to you even if they are doing other jobs nearby by the time they have travelled to and from your yard (7.5 mins per trip). In accepting your hour long job they risk having to turn down someone in the future offering them 4 hours for that time period. Then they need to take out of that petrol and insurance, and pay tax, NI, buy suitable clothing and PPE, they need the admin time to do accounts and all those little texts and conversations with owners add up time and expense. She has to pay herself enough to have the equivalent of 4 weeks holiday per year. Then owners are quite likely to just add in small jobs, so she finds herself filling haynets when previously they were done, treating the odd wound, fixing fencing... it isn't uncommon. Owners will also not expect to pay any more for if the horse is a sod to catch and takes an hour extra one day, or if the groom has to wait for a vet to arrive in an emergency. It really isn't as straightforward as "She wants £30 per hour!"

In any case I really do feel you are humanising your horse :) she is an animal who unless she has behavioural problems or medical reasons would be far better off for being in a field for as long as possible, even in wind and rain compared to her stable. As humans our logic would take us into the stable, but horses have evolved to move more than a stable allows, to graze often and to be more relaxed when they can see all around rather than in the stable. Bringing in at 2pm means you are asking your horse to be in the stable for what, 18 hours per day, and only out in the more natural environment for her, for 6 hours. If there is plenty of grass, an established herd, sufficient room and all the horses stay out until the same time, I really would urge you to leave her out, and that combined with a quick change of clothes in the car in the morning (many of us do it and babywipes are my recommendation ;)) and you've solved your own problem.
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I agree with a lot of this and have clearly stated that it is to fulfil my own peace of mind - something I have to get over! She wouldn't be in her stable for 18 hours as she would be ridden..... but I take your point about me humanising her. Of course I know they are animals, she is not going to melt etc.....
 
Besides, even if you find someone for the £40-50 per week you would like to pay, just think how many lovely shiney new horsey things you could buy every month with that... ;) :D
 
Surely there are 2 issues here:
1) Is it a reasonable price for a freelancer to expect?
IMHO, by the time you've accounted for lost earning time due to travelling and petrol, wear and tear on car plus insurances, etc. It would not be worth it to them for less.​
2) Is it worth OP paying that much for such a brief service?
Probably not. For £75 a week on top of your DIY costs I imagine you could find a very nice livery yard doing full/part/assisted. However if you have the spare cash and this level of peace of mind is important to you then maybe it is.​
 
I think £10 is a decent amount but feel others are making a valid point at £15.

This is not directed at you OP. But I recently told my landlord and his ex that this winter I will be charging the following. Feeding grain and hay to horses in field plus checking over and water €10 per morning. Letting out their dogs from shed to pen €5. Now these prices seem stupid but if you know these 2 you would understand they take advantage. Landlord was away for most of the winter working. Ex girlfriend goes to work at 10 am 4 days a week. She is one mile from here to work. She could make it work but always needs a lie in. So once you start telling people you won't be their little beyotches they tend to make an effort and take responsibility. I never mind helping people out in a bind but sometimes people need to cop on.

Again not directed at you OP. Just showing that some people really just don't care.

Terri
 
Ok, so after considering your points and having written down my ridiculousness on 'paper' so to speak - I am going to withdraw my ad, appropriately rug her and do my best to stop worrying. Horse will stay out until 4.30-5pm like every other :). As I said I think it is two winters worth of no grass and an angry mare that have led me to thinking that she needs to be in earlier and so I then stress at work and rush to get to her. I think a few nights of seeing that she is fine as she has enough to eat will help to reduce my concern.

I do think that if I bear the current yard in mind she is going to have her head well and truly to the floor (as it should be :)) until the moment I walk through the gate!

Thanks all - and for pointing out my attempted unecessary intervention!
 
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I think that's the right decision. I am a bit more hard-nosed when it comes to my boys. They are usually the last two out and although they are normally in the vicinity of the gate, they're always mooching about having a nibble at the grass. I'm sure it's just conditioning that gets them there rather than a real desire to be in.

You can always revisit it once you know how she's behaving - and you will have saved some money in the meantime! Don't assume that she's standing at the gate waiting to come in all day though just because she's there when you get there. Horses have an incredible knack of telling the time. If I'm half an hour earlier than normal my two are nowhere to be seen!
 
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