Unresponsive To Voice (etc) On Lunge.

[Orca]

My cob was 'free schooled' in a round pen before she came to me. We tried a little lunge work the week she arrived (out of interest) and I decided to leave it until she goes to her breaker next month. In the meantime (she's been with me for two weeks), I've been working on walk-halt-walk transitions in hand and other groundwork.

She's since been put on a diet by the vet and we've decided that she absolutely does need more exercise asap. So, we tried a lunge work session today. The intention had been just to work towards walk on each rein at this point and start building from there.

What actually happened, is that she trotted and trotted and trotted! When she broke into canter, I was able to bring her back to trot and eventually to walk. Then she was off trotting again and just kept on going! In all, she was trotting determinedly for 30-40 minutes. Potentially disastrous for an overweight, completely unfit pony.

Dropping the whip had nil effect.
Moving the whip to in front of her (desperate measure), had nil effect.
Moving in front of her shoulder had nil effect.
Decreasing the circle size had nil effect.
Disengaging with my body language, looking away and turning sideways to her had nil effect.
Pressure on the line had no effect.
My voice had nil effect.

Our problem isn't that she doesn't know how to lunge as such (I'm happy to teach her how), it's that she's been chased and chased around a round pen, so she was doing exactly what she thought was expected of her. It's a large arena and I was impressed that she stayed with me at our end. There were no attempts to bolt. I used some of the time to work on basics (given she was going to go on trotting regardless!). Got her weight off of the lunge line nicely, taught her not to drop into the circle. She's a quick learner in most regards!

In the end, I waited it out and when she was visibly exhausted, cut her off (I also tried this earlier - it resulted in a panicky rein change but no change in pace!). It's not a safe solution but at that point, she looked quite happy with herself, obviously under the impression she had done good work. She had! Just not quite what I had asked for.

I can slow and halt her with my voice on lead, so how can I transfer that to the lunge? What else can I try that I haven't already? (I even tried offering my polo hand to get her attention! Nada). Obviously, I'm expecting this to take time but not lunging is not an option. Letting her overwork herself is also not an option.

It will be difficult to book an instructor immediately but I'm keen to find a way to help her understand what I want from her. Any ideas, please?

 

[Goldenstar]

I think I would work leading the horse round the school working on getting the horse walking a short distance from you working very gradually to get the horse out away from you .
When starting has been screwed up like this is time consuming and slow job fixing it
I would perhaps carry a dressage whip you use this to teach the horse the 'out ' command with lots of walking and halting from the voice.
If he's difficult to stop I would always go to him and give a carrot stick or a low calorie treat in a noisy bag after a halt ,not something I do normally but if you shake a noisy bag and he learns that means treat it may help you get his attention .

 

[Makemineacob]

Have you tried a helper leading her whilst you are in the middle and the helper basically is there to lead your horse in response to your voice. My mare would do the wall of death whenever you clipped the lunge on her and I found the only way she would start to take notice was to do something unexpected like crouch down small to completely change my body language, she would then hook onto me with her inside ear and start watching, I suspect she was also chased around. I got hubby to help being the helper and it didn't take long for her to cotton on. She now stops (to "whoa"), trots (to a click), canters (to a "brrrrr"), I mix it up also to make things interesting. I don't bother with a whip as I found she ran more even with a whip just being near me.

 

[[69117]]

I would try long reining. I start all my horses of on long reins in a straight line, and then on a circle, then eventually can take the outside line away and they listen to my voice. With two lines you'll have proper brakes!

 

[LHIS]

I'd try long lining her on two lines. Then with your voice you have the back-up of a balanced contact to physically ask her too. I learnt this myself - no point trying to lunge if they don't understand what you're asking and will just run rings round you. My lad was chased round and round (we think) as a youngster and as a result teaching him to lunge had to start with long lines because he just trotted round and round and we achieved nothing.
Once your horse has learnt you can take away the outside line and try again with the lunge.

 

[Orca]

I think I would work leading the horse round the school working on getting the horse walking a short distance from you working very gradually to get the horse out away from you .
When starting has been screwed up like this is time consuming and slow job fixing it
I would perhaps carry a dressage whip you use this to teach the horse the 'out ' command with lots of walking and halting from the voice.
If he's difficult to stop I would always go to him and give a carrot stick or a low calorie treat in a noisy bag after a halt ,not something I do normally but if you shake a noisy bag and he learns that means treat it may help you get his attention .

Thank you. She is food oriented and does need to learn to not try to 'Scooby-doo' into my arms every time she's unsure, so adding this to our groundwork would be invaluable.

Have you tried a helper leading her whilst you are in the middle and the helper basically is there to lead your horse in response to your voice. My mare would do the wall of death whenever you clipped the lunge on her and I found the only way she would start to take notice was to do something unexpected like crouch down small to completely change my body language, she would then hook onto me with her inside ear and start watching, I suspect she was also chased around. I got hubby to help being the helper and it didn't take long for her to cotton on. She now stops (to "whoa"), trots (to a click), canters (to a "brrrrr"), I mix it up also to make things interesting. I don't bother with a whip as I found she ran more even with a whip just being near me.

Another good suggestion! She did bolt with me on lead recently. It was a specific set of circumstances but I'd be a reluctant to put anyone else in close contact with her in a situation she's unsure of. Maybe they could lunge and I could lead though, to start with?

I would try long reining. I start all my horses of on long reins in a straight line, and then on a circle, then eventually can take the outside line away and they listen to my voice. With two lines you'll have proper brakes!

I'd try long lining her on two lines. Then with your voice you have the back-up of a balanced contact to physically ask her too. I learnt this myself - no point trying to lunge if they don't understand what you're asking and will just run rings round you. My lad was chased round and round (we think) as a youngster and as a result teaching him to lunge had to start with long lines because he just trotted round and round and we achieved nothing.
Once your horse has learnt you can take away the outside line and try again with the lunge.

These make perfect sense, thank you. I would normally move from one line to two but particularly given our current problem, I can see how long reining first would be beneficial (and I'm wondering why I didn't think of it ).

 

[Goldenstar]

I am not a fan of using long lines on horses who don't stop from the voice well to much can go wrong .
If you try long lines make sure you have a second person to help until the horse has the hang of it .

 

[Orca]

I am not a fan of using long lines on horses who don't stop from the voice well to much can go wrong .
If you try long lines make sure you have a second person to help until the horse has the hang of it .

It's a difficult one. I can see how it could might help in this instance but equally, I'm keen to avoid adding to the problems rather than reducing them, bearing in mind she will learn all of this with her trainer next month anyway. If I do go ahead, I have a large and fully enclosed indoor school to hand in which she is quite comfortable, so we at least have a safe space to work in but my plan for tomorrow is groundwork, incorporating your suggestions. It won't be as strenuous for her as I would like but groundwork being the basis of everything else, still a very necessary session at this point.

 

[Orca]

Quick update. After a week of groundwork, working on voice commands and body language, we tried lunging again today. She went perfectly!

I've found giving a short, sharp whistle before issuing a command helps to grab her attention. I also exchanged the whip for body language, with a rope for back up. Walk on, trot on and woah were all spot on. Collecting, extending and stretching too. Standing for me to approach her was achieved with the aid of a carrot ��. I can live with that! I'm absolutely over the moon with her progress. For an unbroken but overweight mare, this exercise could be a life saver. Thank you all so much for your help.

 

[EQUIDAE]

I'd always teach to.lunge with someone at the head until voice aids are established. Not having someone on the end of the leadrope at the start can just result in them bombing around

 

[Orca]

It can. When I've taught them before, it's been via gradual steps in learning to work away from me, which has usually worked quite well. Because of this ones past handling, bolting when afraid has happened. People haven't always been kind to her. As I said before, I would be wary of having someone else at her head until I know we've overcome her panic/flight response, which I think at this stage, too many people and ropes might trigger and the results could be disastrous. She's a HW and strong. Fortunately, she worked well again this morning and had learned 'stand' overnight too! She had plenty of excuses to play up today - the wind was strong to the point that the rope was rippling at times but she got right on with it and did some nice work ��

 

[Birker2020]

My cob was 'free schooled' in a round pen before she came to me. We tried a little lunge work the week she arrived (out of interest) and I decided to leave it until she goes to her breaker next month. In the meantime (she's been with me for two weeks), I've been working on walk-halt-walk transitions in hand and other groundwork.

She's since been put on a diet by the vet and we've decided that she absolutely does need more exercise asap. So, we tried a lunge work session today. The intention had been just to work towards walk on each rein at this point and start building from there.

What actually happened, is that she trotted and trotted and trotted! When she broke into canter, I was able to bring her back to trot and eventually to walk. Then she was off trotting again and just kept on going! In all, she was trotting determinedly for 30-40 minutes. Potentially disastrous for an overweight, completely unfit pony.

Dropping the whip had nil effect.
Moving the whip to in front of her (desperate measure), had nil effect.
Moving in front of her shoulder had nil effect.
Decreasing the circle size had nil effect.
Disengaging with my body language, looking away and turning sideways to her had nil effect.
Pressure on the line had no effect.
My voice had nil effect.

Our problem isn't that she doesn't know how to lunge as such (I'm happy to teach her how), it's that she's been chased and chased around a round pen, so she was doing exactly what she thought was expected of her. It's a large arena and I was impressed that she stayed with me at our end. There were no attempts to bolt. I used some of the time to work on basics (given she was going to go on trotting regardless!). Got her weight off of the lunge line nicely, taught her not to drop into the circle. She's a quick learner in most regards!

In the end, I waited it out and when she was visibly exhausted, cut her off (I also tried this earlier - it resulted in a panicky rein change but no change in pace!). It's not a safe solution but at that point, she looked quite happy with herself, obviously under the impression she had done good work. She had! Just not quite what I had asked for.

I can slow and halt her with my voice on lead, so how can I transfer that to the lunge? What else can I try that I haven't already? (I even tried offering my polo hand to get her attention! Nada). Obviously, I'm expecting this to take time but not lunging is not an option. Letting her overwork herself is also not an option.

It will be difficult to book an instructor immediately but I'm keen to find a way to help her understand what I want from her. Any ideas, please?

Used to have the same problem with my boy, he wouldn't halt for love nor money. In the end I put two lunge lines on him, the outside one threaded through stirrup iron (stirrups down and held together under belly with twine to stop flapping) and the inside lunge line from outside bit ring, over head and through bit ring on inner side. Then when you want to halt you just exert pressure on the outside one whilst giving the command.

A brilliant tip to remember is to always say the name first i.e. "Bailey trot on", "Bailey walk" and so on and so forth.

If someone speaks to you but doesn't address you by your name you might miss what they are saying. By saying the horses name before a command they are already 'tuned in' to you and anticipating your next request.