Unrideable but cant find the problem! (Long message)

Zoeypxo

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Hi all, i have a 13yo 16.2 sports horse chesnut mare. Owned 7 years competed for 3 years local dressage and sj also hacked alone and in company.
Then one day in 2018 she started explosive bucking and rearing which eventually was found as grade 4 bleeding ulcers.
Treated ulcers but they kept returning each time so she was sent for a lameness work up which found mild arthritis in the right hind. Injected with steroids then the ulcers cleared and she was then fine to ride again but never returned to the perfect all rounder i once owned and now is rather stressy about most situations and occasionally naps/spins out hacking but nothing unmanageable if in constant work and low feeding.
2019 went lame behind, Vets nerve blocked both hocks and SI with no improvement so told me its probably a deep pelvis injury and to turn her out for 6 months. Fast forward 6 months still lame.
2020 travelled 200 miles to the nearest equine hospital for a bone scan which showed up both hocks. Then x rayed which showed mild arthritis in both the left and the right hock. Injected with steroids did some rehab/ground work for a month then started riding. Straight away when i ask her to go forward she rears with her ears flat back which she did a few years ago whilst she had the ulcers. I speak to my vet and she gives me 1 month ulcer treatment which makes a massive improvement for about 2 months then the behaviour starts again. Pinning ears back and rearing when asked to go forward. Started hacking following another horse instead of asking too much from her which goes well but she will NOT go infront under any circumstance and will rear/spin if asked to take the lead but perfectly happy to follow. Went back into the school after 2 month only hacking and she started bolting. Had physio out very sore abdominals and pectorals which were released. Was working 50+ hour weeks in the winter and no lights in the school so she had the winter off.
Brought her back into work spring 2021 and straight away when ridden she plants herself, pins her ears back, tail swishing constantly and will rear or kick out when asked to go forward, at one point she went up so high she started wobbling and i thought she was going to go over backwards on me. She also is girthy and sometimes squeels when the girth goes up (this is new behaviour).
This morning i had her in the vets to be scoped and they found NOTHING. Vets have also watched her lunge and no obvious lameness or pain showing. The vets have now pescribed me a months worth of bute to do a bute trial to see if its behavioural or pain related.

Im feeling very dissapointed today as i was hoping to get answers. She is dangerous to ride and acts as if something is really hurting her when i am on board.
Saddle, teeth, physio up to date.
Am i missing something?! Is she just now forever going to be unrideable for no apparent reason?
Ive maxed out multiple insurance claims on hocks and ulcers so most things are now coming out of my own pocket.
I want to do anything i can to get her right again but im at a loss on what else can be investigated?

thankyou if you managed to read this far!
Interested to hear if anyone had similar symptoms which weren't due to ulcers.
Z x
 

daydreamer

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Oh dear,

I don't really have any suggestions as it sounds like you have done all the obvious checks :( Is she better on the lunge? I'm just wondering about kissing spines. I also think a lot of people suggest PSSM when there are issues with no apparent source. I think if it was my horse I would try getting a really good bodyworker/chiropractic vet out to have a look (I think there is the osteopathic vet and then another one I can't remember the name of, Roger someone?? and I have used Ken Skinner) who has a reputation for taking a holistic view and fixing weird undiagnosed problems. It might also be worth getting a good Masterson Method practitioner out if there is one near you to have another look at fascia/muscle/postural issues whilst waiting for more answers.

Hopefully someone more knowledgable than me will come along and offer some more suggestions soon!
 

Zoeypxo

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Has she had back X-rays ?

yes she had x rays around 12 months ago and i was told they were ‘a bit close’ but not bad enough to cause a problem.
I had a 2nd opinion by a specialist and he said they are not the worst he's seen but also not the best.
I will attatch the photo of the ‘close’ spinal processes. These sit right behind the saddle.
 

angel7

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Did you try sucralfate incase of hindgut ulcers which cant be scoped for?
Also consider the steriods havent worked and bilateral hind leg lameness the problem, have the hinds been nerve blocked after the steriods? Arthamid gel might be option although appreciate its spendy
 

Zoeypxo

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Did you try sucralfate incase of hindgut ulcers which cant be scoped for?
Also consider the steriods havent worked and bilateral hind leg lameness the problem, have the hinds been nerve blocked after the steriods? Arthamid gel might be option although appreciate its spendy

she has had sucralfate twice now yes, the behaviour always seems to comes back. Vets arent overly interested in discussing the hind gut.
If she works ok on the bute i believe the vets will be having her in for a lameness work up and look at the hocks again. Don't know why they couldn't have done this today but hey ho
 

meleeka

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A bute trial should rule out physical pain, although understand not always effective on back pain. I’ve been in a similar situation and I retired. It’s frustrating and soul destroying when you can find out what’s wrong.
 

Zoeypxo

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Thankyou, i have heard before that the bute trial isnt overly effective with a horse that may have kissing spine so this does worry me.
I do struggle to beleive that this is behavioural, its very extreme and dangerous and impossible to work through ?
 

ycbm

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My best guess would be that this is a serious deep ligament issue that isn't causing bone turnover and won't show on scintigraph. Possibly the supraspinous (?) one that runs along the spine.

I would retire her I'm afraid, I think you've probably done all you can.

You sound like a great owner.
.
 
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Zoeypxo

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Thankyou everyone. I will try the bute trial and i have also contacted The Osteopathic Vet.
Maybe after this Retirement will be the only option. I teach and ride everyday so i wont have nothing to ride but theres nothing better than riding your own.
 

Appygirl

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Hi all, i have a 13yo 16.2 sports horse chesnut mare. Owned 7 years competed for 3 years local dressage and sj also hacked alone and in company.
Then one day in 2018 she started explosive bucking and rearing which eventually was found as grade 4 bleeding ulcers.
Treated ulcers but they kept returning each time so she was sent for a lameness work up which found mild arthritis in the right hind. Injected with steroids then the ulcers cleared and she was then fine to ride again but never returned to the perfect all rounder i once owned and now is rather stressy about most situations and occasionally naps/spins out hacking but nothing unmanageable if in constant work and low feeding.
2019 went lame behind, Vets nerve blocked both hocks and SI with no improvement so told me its probably a deep pelvis injury and to turn her out for 6 months. Fast forward 6 months still lame.
2020 travelled 200 miles to the nearest equine hospital for a bone scan which showed up both hocks. Then x rayed which showed mild arthritis in both the left and the right hock. Injected with steroids did some rehab/ground work for a month then started riding. Straight away when i ask her to go forward she rears with her ears flat back which she did a few years ago whilst she had the ulcers. I speak to my vet and she gives me 1 month ulcer treatment which makes a massive improvement for about 2 months then the behaviour starts again. Pinning ears back and rearing when asked to go forward. Started hacking following another horse instead of asking too much from her which goes well but she will NOT go infront under any circumstance and will rear/spin if asked to take the lead but perfectly happy to follow. Went back into the school after 2 month only hacking and she started bolting. Had physio out very sore abdominals and pectorals which were released. Was working 50+ hour weeks in the winter and no lights in the school so she had the winter off.
Brought her back into work spring 2021 and straight away when ridden she plants herself, pins her ears back, tail swishing constantly and will rear or kick out when asked to go forward, at one point she went up so high she started wobbling and i thought she was going to go over backwards on me. She also is girthy and sometimes squeels when the girth goes up (this is new behaviour).
This morning i had her in the vets to be scoped and they found NOTHING. Vets have also watched her lunge and no obvious lameness or pain showing. The vets have now pescribed me a months worth of bute to do a bute trial to see if its behavioural or pain related.

Im feeling very dissapointed today as i was hoping to get answers. She is dangerous to ride and acts as if something is really hurting her when i am on board.
Saddle, teeth, physio up to date.
Am i missing something?! Is she just now forever going to be unrideable for no apparent reason?
Ive maxed out multiple insurance claims on hocks and ulcers so most things are now coming out of my own pocket.
I want to do anything i can to get her right again but im at a loss on what else can be investigated?

thankyou if you managed to read this far!
Interested to hear if anyone had similar symptoms which weren't due to ulcers.
Z x
Hi there - just a long shot but worth a try. I have a pony who changed from being a well behaved bomb proof pony to a fire breathing dragon who was unrideable, bucking every few seconds and freaking out. After spending weeks and weeks on checking out numerous things it was suggested taking her off grass and feeding hay, and adding magnesium and salt to her hard feed. The result was amazing - after 3 days a vast improvement, after 2 weeks she was back to normal. Could be worth a try, good luck ??.
 

midnight2025

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She could be just taking advantage of you because it could be a learnt behaviour because she realised that she doesn’t have to work. The only way to know if it truly pain is get a professional to ride her for a few weeks and if she improved with them then you will now it behaviour .
 

Gloi

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She could be just taking advantage of you because it could be a learnt behaviour because she realised that she doesn’t have to work. The only way to know if it truly pain is get a professional to ride her for a few weeks and if she improved with them then you will now it behaviour .
Or that she is afraid to show pain with them.
 

Pearlsasinger

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She could be just taking advantage of you because it could be a learnt behaviour because she realised that she doesn’t have to work. The only way to know if it truly pain is get a professional to ride her for a few weeks and if she improved with them then you will now it behaviour .


IME extreme behaviour problems are *always* a result of a physical illness of some kind. My mare, who had seen different vets loads of times, been given various meds, which didn't make much difference, was actually reacting to feed, her reactions got more and more extreme over the years that we struggled to work out her problems. I would be amazed if this horse's behaviour was learned. It sounds like pain to me.
 

TheMule

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I had one that started vertical rearing having been very sweet and easy up to that point. I did send her to an amateur jockey to see if he could ride her through it but when he pushed her on she got worse so that was her ridden career finished. Gutting aged 6, and I could have spent thousands of pounds trying to work out why, but it was the right decision for everyone.
 

Zoeypxo

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I am still prepared to do more tests but i am also prepared to make the desicion on retirement if we get no solid answers.
I will still keep her as a pet. She is happy in the field and appears sound.
I have contacted Rob Jackson the horseback vet for an appointment.

If her close spinal process is causing the issue will the bute trial even work to mask the pain?
 

Zoeypxo

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I wondered about ovaries and explained to the vet how in season she can be insane in the field trying to jump the hedges and the 5ft fence to get out even when turned out with other horses. She also has a cresty neck but the vet is again not concerned and says this is normal
 

Pearlsasinger

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I wondered about ovaries and explained to the vet how in season she can be insane in the field trying to jump the hedges and the 5ft fence to get out even when turned out with other horses. She also has a cresty neck but the vet is again not concerned and says this is normal


Have you considered asking for a 2nd vet opinion?
 
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