Unrideable but cant find the problem! (Long message)

[Zoeypxo]

Have you had her ovaries scanned and/or had a regumate trial? I knew a mare that was very difficult (flipped over under saddle) and it turned out she had a massive ovarian tumour!

As someone who has had a lot of mares, all mine do in season is squirt a lot and be very friendly.

i had her ovaries scanned in 2018 and it showed she ovulated in both ovaries at the same time but nothing abnormal like a cyst or tumour present.
I did ask about ovaries yesterday and they said i can do a regumate trial but they cant get hold of regumate atm!

 

[Melody Grey]

i had her ovaries scanned in 2018 and it showed she ovulated in both ovaries at the same time but nothing abnormal like a cyst or tumour present.
I did ask about ovaries yesterday and they said i can do a regumate trial but they cant get hold of regumate atm!

Not an expert, but wouldn’t that indicate either a hormonal
Imbalance or failure of one of the ovaries to be ‘listening’ which might be a problem?

 

[shortstuff99]

i had her ovaries scanned in 2018 and it showed she ovulated in both ovaries at the same time but nothing abnormal like a cyst or tumour present.
I did ask about ovaries yesterday and they said i can do a regumate trial but they cant get hold of regumate atm!

I would definitely do a regumate trial, it is supposed be back in stock next week.

 

[lynz88]

Omg. This sounds like such a familiar story for the last god knows how many years with mine (which happens to be MY horse of a lifetime and am determined to find a way to keep him comfortable but am getting to my whits end) - he gives me the same behaviour and cannot find out what is actually bothering him....he has lots of issues and everytime we treat something, he's happy but then reverts back to napping, tiny rears, spinning, etc. All I can do is sympathize with you as some days I feel like it is time to pts which absolutely kills me....but then he suddenly decides he is "ok" and in some instances gives me jaw dropping beautiful movement that I have never seen him do until I am convinced it isn't "time" and then reverts back....

 

[Zoeypxo]

I would definitely do a regumate trial, it is supposed be back in stock next week.

would the regumate be helpful if a tumour is present?

 

[shortstuff99]

would the regumate be helpful if a tumour is present?

Yes because it can counteract the effects of the ovarian tumour. The mare I mentioned above was originally scanned and they didn't see much and then had a regumate trial and was great. Then the behaviour started up again (but a lot worse) which culminated in her going over while ridden. Scanned again and massive tumour found, which had obviously grown at some speed.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Yes because it can counteract the effects of the ovarian tumour. The mare I mentioned above was originally scanned and they didn't see much and then had a regumate trial and was great. Then the behaviour started up again (but a lot worse) which culminated in her going over while ridden. Scanned again and massive tumour found, which had obviously grown at some speed.

ah thankyou this is very helpful to know.
Currently on a bute trial and have been told to ride after 7 days so.. we will see what happens i guess. I will ask for regumate after this

 

[Zoeypxo]

Omg. This sounds like such a familiar story for the last god knows how many years with mine (which happens to be MY horse of a lifetime and am determined to find a way to keep him comfortable but am getting to my whits end) - he gives me the same behaviour and cannot find out what is actually bothering him....he has lots of issues and everytime we treat something, he's happy but then reverts back to napping, tiny rears, spinning, etc. All I can do is sympathize with you as some days I feel like it is time to pts which absolutely kills me....but then he suddenly decides he is "ok" and in some instances gives me jaw dropping beautiful movement that I have never seen him do until I am convinced it isn't "time" and then reverts back....

Oh no, sorry to hear that. It really is horrible going through this with our horses especially when we are so attached to them.
Have you tried an osteopath? Ive gone on ‘The horseback vet’s waiting list for a visit which may be helpful.

 

[angel7]

Try asking for the pig version of regumate, same drug might be more availibility

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I could have written the same thing about Lady Gascoyne.

What is her turnout like, and what is she eating at the moment?

 

[Caramac71]

I am still prepared to do more tests but i am also prepared to make the desicion on retirement if we get no solid answers.
I will still keep her as a pet. She is happy in the field and appears sound.
I have contacted Rob Jackson the horseback vet for an appointment.

If her close spinal process is causing the issue will the bute trial even work to mask the pain?

In your circumstances I’d favour an appointment with Tom Beech over Rob Jackson. Having used both, Rob focuses on the back only whereas Tom looks at the whole horse and is more likely to find the root of the problem.

long story short, my daughters mare (aged 6 at the time) was kicking out in canter, napping, rearing, very spooky, eventually refusing to go forward at all. Vets scoped for ulcers - totally clear and on that basis they ruled out any hind gut issues. Scanned ovaries and found no issues. Back X-rays looked fine. Had bone scan which showed facet joint arthritis behind the saddle and strained suprasounous ligament. Treated that and long slow rehab but quickly reverted back.

Over the next few years we tried everything but to no avail. Contacted Tom Beech (Osteopathic Vet) and asked if he’d come and give an honest opinion as to whether it was worth trying to continue or give up. He successfully treated her - he felt that her problems were internal (right ovary and hind gut). That was 2+ years ago. It was a slow journey but she’s now in full work and doing amazingly well.

Good luck, I hope you find the issue, it’s so horrible when you know something is wrong but can’t find what.

 

[Zoeypxo]

In your circumstances I’d favour an appointment with Tom Beech over Rob Jackson. Having used both, Rob focuses on the back only whereas Tom looks at the whole horse and is more likely to find the root of the problem.

long story short, my daughters mare (aged 6 at the time) was kicking out in canter, napping, rearing, very spooky, eventually refusing to go forward at all. Vets scoped for ulcers - totally clear and on that basis they ruled out any hind gut issues. Scanned ovaries and found no issues. Back X-rays looked fine. Had bone scan which showed facet joint arthritis behind the saddle and strained suprasounous ligament. Treated that and long slow rehab but quickly reverted back.

Over the next few years we tried everything but to no avail. Contacted Tom Beech (Osteopathic Vet) and asked if he’d come and give an honest opinion as to whether it was worth trying to continue or give up. He successfully treated her - he felt that her problems were internal (right ovary and hind gut). That was 2+ years ago. It was a slow journey but she’s now in full work and doing amazingly well.

Good luck, I hope you find the issue, it’s so horrible when you know something is wrong but can’t find what.

i contacted Tom first and he doesnt come to cornwall! The nearest clinic is 100 miles away and i dont have my own trailer.
Do you think that Rob Jackson is not worth the time?

 

[Zoeypxo]

I could have written the same thing about Lady Gascoyne.

What is her turnout like, and what is she eating at the moment?

Shes currently turned out overnight 6pm to 7/8am. Individual paddocks but always right next to others and can mutual groom over the fence but she usually prefers to groom me anyway. Paddocks are a decent size and big enough to let out as much energy as needed if she feels like it.
Rotated regularly and grazed by sheep when the horses rotate. In september she will go back to day time turnout.

she has adlib haylage when stabled and has 1 small evening feed of agrobs gut restore mash and thunderbrook chaff, this is only to mix in a joint supplement and gut balancer. She is a good doer and rarely needs extra feeding

 

[Melody Grey]

i contacted Tom first and he doesnt come to cornwall! The nearest clinic is 100 miles away and i dont have my own trailer.
Do you think that Rob Jackson is not worth the time?

If you’re in last chance saloon, I’d pay a transporter to take her the hundred miles personally. You could spend a lot more looking at this and that in stages with your local vet.

 

[Zoeypxo]

If you’re in last chance saloon, I’d pay a transporter to take her the hundred miles personally. You could spend a lot more looking at this and that in stages with your local vet.

You are right, i think investigations with the vet will cost easily into the thousands including nerve blocks x rays etc and we could never find the problem..
Ive contacted tom and asked if i can even come if shes on bute. Happy to take her straight off it if needed.
I just worry as she doesn't travel overly well, she tries to sit on the bar at the back to balance herself and comes back with no tail left. I think due to pain she struggles to balance and hold herself in the trailer as she used to travel like a dream.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You are right, i think investigations with the vet will cost easily into the thousands including nerve blocks x rays etc and we could never find the problem..
Ive contacted tom and asked if i can even come if shes on bute. Happy to take her straight off it if needed.
I just worry as she doesn't travel overly well, she tries to sit on the bar at the back to balance herself and comes back with no tail left. I think due to pain she struggles to balance and hold herself in the trailer as she used to travel like a dream.

She might travel better on a box, with a professional transporter.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Ok, so ive provisionally booked a transport company (3.5T box with extra wide partitions)
and going through the booking process with Tom.
This will be in Exeter on the 19th July.
Fingers crossed i get some answers and i will update on here incase it helps anyone with similar problems.
Does anyone know how the clinic works? Do i need to bring tack for lunging/riding? Or will he just assess her on the ground..
Also big thankyou to everyone for taking time to read through my message and giving honest opinions!

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Shes currently turned out overnight 6pm to 7/8am. Individual paddocks but always right next to others and can mutual groom over the fence but she usually prefers to groom me anyway. Paddocks are a decent size and big enough to let out as much energy as needed if she feels like it.
Rotated regularly and grazed by sheep when the horses rotate. In september she will go back to day time turnout.

she has adlib haylage when stabled and has 1 small evening feed of agrobs gut restore mash and thunderbrook chaff, this is only to mix in a joint supplement and gut balancer. She is a good doer and rarely needs extra feeding

Gosh there really is nothing in there that you’d think could be an issue, is there. You must be at your wits end with this.

I hope you find some answers soon.

 

[lynz88]

Haven't tried an osteopath and the thought never occurred to me tbh - I do use a chiro who is actually due out on the 13th who is fantastic. She has found a few issues in my boy throughout the years and both her and my vet work closely together. It's so hard when our horses can't actually tell us where the problem is.

 

[HorsesRule2009]

I'd be considering hunt gut ulcers, as you say when treated she's better for a short time?
And feel there is possibly an underlying pain issue causing the ulcers. Have you had neck and feet x-rays? It's surprising just how many issues there are with these areas.

The other thing to consider has her diet changed since 2018? Yard move/farmer using different fertiliser, or even the same hard feed but the company has changed the ingredients slightly?
Again it's surprising how much a minor change in feed can up set them.
If you can't get to the bottom of it I'd retire as it'll be easier on you both x

 

[Melody Grey]

Ok, so ive provisionally booked a transport company (3.5T box with extra wide partitions)
and going through the booking process with Tom.
This will be in Exeter on the 19th July.
Fingers crossed i get some answers and i will update on here incase it helps anyone with similar problems.
Does anyone know how the clinic works? Do i need to bring tack for lunging/riding? Or will he just assess her on the ground..
Also big thankyou to everyone for taking time to read through my message and giving honest opinions!

I’d take tack and equipment regardless- it won’t take up much space and you’ll be prepared either way. I’d also want the vet to be able to see the saddle etc incase they pick up on anything there. Cover all bases! Good luck, I hope you find answers ;-)

 

[Zoeypxo]

Update -
Went to see The osteopathic Vet yesterday.
Straight away he found lots of problems starting from the Jaw being very tense and she was unable to flex her head and neck to the left which he said was concerning.
Her 3rd bone in the neck on the right was ‘out’.
Shoulders and withers very tight.
Tight/sore back.
Confirmation not great behind, she has a butt crevice?? So sacrum sits quite low encouriging her to dip her back causing the spinal processes to get close together.
Issues with the hind gut pulling the spine to the right.
Due to the tension in the spine she is putting alot of weight down infront causing the stifness and pain in her withers shoulders, neck and jaw.
Also her front feet are quite flat and pushing down on her heels causing more discomfort.
I have ordered the reccomended supplement to help her hind gut.
I will be sorting out physio appointments and some groundwork lessons to make sure im doing the best i can to encourage lift in the spine.
Also have chatted to my farrier to discuss lifting her heels and getting better angle on the feet in time with her progress with her back.
Tom did lots of stretches/belly lifts and manipulation to the back and everything responded very well and once the tension in her back and pelvis was relieved the tension in her neck and jaw was also helped.
There is one part of her lumbar area that wasnt responding overly well to the treatment so questioning arthritis in this part of the spine.
If this doesn't improve with the rehab plan then we will x ray/ultrasound and do steroids if needed.
I learnt alot and it was very interesting, with most of her pain and tension being under the saddle area and spreading to most of the front end it makes sense her extreme reaction to being saddled and ridden, also her spine being slightly bent to the right explains why her saddle was always slipping slightly to the right.

now i have a long road of rehab and work to do! He says the feet balance will more than likely take 9 months to correct.
Very pleased to have some answers and a plan in place and not bankrupt yet!!
I am so glad i pushed for answers and didnt just bute and ride or ‘be more firm with her’ ?.
Tom also said the bute trial wouldnt have even touched the sides with the amount of tension and pain in her body.
going back to Tom in 3 months and he wants to see atleast 50% improvement in her back and way of going.

100% reccomend if anyone is thinking of going to one of his clinics and thankyou again for everyones help and advice!

 

[Zoeypxo]

Riding is a long way off yet but it feels good to have answers and a plan of action

 

[brighteyes]

Yes because it can counteract the effects of the ovarian tumour. The mare I mentioned above was originally scanned and they didn't see much and then had a regumate trial and was great. Then the behaviour started up again (but a lot worse) which culminated in her going over while ridden. Scanned again and massive tumour found, which had obviously grown at some speed.

Did they operate or what?

 

[Gloi]

How Is the farrier aiming to lift the heels?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

How Is the farrier aiming to lift the heels?

Shoes off and proper barefoot 'rehab' works IME, but I have no idea if this would be contra indicated given the horse's other issues or not.

 

[daydreamer]

Thanks for the update. Glad it sounds like you've made some progress and have a plan, fingers crossed it all works out.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

That sounds brilliant! Now you know that you were right and you have a plan to try to put things right. All the best!

 

[shortstuff99]

Did they operate or what?

Yes they did, removed a tumour the size of a basketball. Horse then caught MRSA but is now recovering well.

 

[Melody Grey]

It sounds like there’s a lot going on, but all in an interconnected kind of way- so hopefully rehabbing will help with everything. glad you have some answers and an action plan- do keep us posted!