Unsound elderly horse...PTS, or field ornament?

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MizElz

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Had an interesting conversation with a friend earlier. She has an elderly horse, in his mid twenties, who went lame a couple of months ago and has remained unsound. The vets are so far uncertain as to the cause, but the bottom line is that they have told her it is unlikely he will be comfortable enough to ever be ridden again.

Basically, she told me tonight that if he is no longer going to be rideable, then she will probably make the decision to have him PTS. She feels that he would not be happy being inactive, and it isnt like she can even give him lots of freedom in retirement; he is prone to laminitis, and so is on permanently - and severely - restricted grazing. He's a lovely boy, and she loves him to bits; she's had him 10 years, and he owes her nothing. He is positively blooming in himself; he looks wonderful, and to be fair you would not put him at a day over 15. And the lady's husband is majorly against having the horse put down; he feels that he should be allowed to live out the rest of his days with them, and that it is callous to put him down simply because he is unrideable.

Now, having been in the position once before where an elderly horse in our family was put down before his time was nigh, I am undecided as to how exactly I feel about this situation. On the one hand, I agree with the husband; it IS somewhat hardhearted to end the horse's life, simply because he is no longer 'of use' to them. On the other hand, I respect the wife's viewpoint that he is her horse; she knows him better than anyone, and she believes that he would be unhappy. But I think, if it were me, I'd give both myself and him time to see whether or not he could adjust happily to an unridden life.

What does everyone think?
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Is he comfortable in the field - is it just when ridden he is lame?
Can the lady happily afford to keep him as a field ornament?

TBH I would give it a trial of a few months and observe his behaviour - at least that gives him a last Summer, and then see how happy he is.

Whatever she does will clearly be with his best interests at heart, she obviously loves this horse.
 
if he is happy and she is in a position to afford to keep him, then i would let him live out his days happily. I could not PTS.
 
We've been lucky that our old ones have generally not had laminitis and been chucked out and done other jobs like entertaining the babies.

Our laminitic mare was not put down until she went very downhill and was uncomfortable in herself.

If she can afford it, and its easy to keep as a field ornament I would, however if it was costing £40 per week, I guess you'd have to think pretty hard about this one.
 
He's comfortable enough - he isnt hopping lame, but they know he is feeling a bit of pain because he wont do anything more than walk - and whereas he used to think nothing of jumping over the electric fence, he wouldnt dream of it now!

They arent particularly well off, but TBH there is no reason they couldnt afford to keep him - especially if they didnt get another horse while he is still around.
 
I am someone who let's my heart rule my head with animals, however think that every situation is individual and really the owner knows best for that particular animial.

It would be sad if she decided to say goodbye
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i had my pony pts after much soul searching. He hated inactivity, as soon as he was retired (on veterinary advise) he just gave up, he became depressed, lost weight, his coat went and he lost the sparkle in his eyes. It was the hardest decision I ever made as he gave me so much and while he may have lived on for many years, his quality of life was severely compromised. We all know our own ponies better than anyone and if it is time, it is time. I hope your friend can make the right decision for her pony, and that her OH can accept that she knows what is for the best.
 
Now I feel diferentaly (sp) I think
My old boy would be very miserable as a field ornament
I made the decision to retire him last year as we had bought him back and he has done enough for me and he owes me nothing in terms of being ridden again
3 weeks in he became depressed / lethargic wouldn't eat , grave etc . had the vet out and discussed it and the change in routine (everything was the same minus riding) had upset him and he was enjoying retirment (!!).
He is now out of retirment and loving it
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I think if he could NEVER be ridden agian I would observe him and really question his quality of life if he was like he was again
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I would PTS

If he is prone to laminitis he is never going to live out his days in a lovely green field is he? And he will only walk because I assume he is in pain? So you leave him hobbling around a starvation paddock, on a diet for rest of his natural life? I think that is callous personally.

Never mind being unrideable or not, I don't believe he has much quality of life.

If I had been asked this three years ago I would have been horrified at the thought of pts but knowing what I know now. I would let him go.

I think your friend is making a very brave decision and showing great empathy for her horse.

Jo x
 
If he would be unhappy and bored as an inactive field ornament (as some horses are) and is on restricted grazing then I would have him PTS.

Mid 20s is a good age - he has a long life, who knows if the lameness is causing him pain or not but why keep a horse until he starts to deteriorate.
 
sorry but have i just read that the vets haven;t actually made any sort of diagnosis but yet they are telling the owner that the horse is a right off?????
seems a bit wrong to me, i think he should be given the opportunity to recover, they should invesigate properly what is wrong, make a diagnosis then give a prognosis. just because a horse is old doesn;t mean he should be ignored and left undiagnosed.
 
We retired one at 12 years old and she spent many happy years being with her best friend. She died at home aged 26 ish. We retired another at 30 and she had 3 years playing with new friends in the field, both had good quality of life and kept the same routine as when in work, minus the work. That said the second one was one bute for three years, if she had been in pain which we couldn't control with bute then we would have made the decision sooner. IMHO it depends on the quality of life for each animal.
 
I'd PTS

Horses are luxury items that don't cheap!

Also, what if he gets nicked, doped up and sold on? Could your friends OH live with himself then
 
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We retired one at 12 years old and she spent many happy years being with her best friend. She died at home aged 26 ish. We retired another at 30 and she had 3 years playing with new friends in the field, both had good quality of life and kept the same routine as when in work, minus the work. That said the second one was one bute for three years, if she had been in pain which we couldn't control with bute then we would have made the decision sooner. IMHO it depends on the quality of life for each animal.

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If he came sound on bute that's a different matter, but it still doesn't change the severely restricted lifestyle he would lead.

I put my 8 y/o pony down because she was having no quality of life as she was so susceptible to laminitis. I think it is the lack of "normal horse" life that this old boy has to live with that worries me more.

Jo x
 
I haven't read other replies, so my view is purely my own. First of all, vets tend to give you the worst case scenario, so I wouldn't take it as a definite that the horse will always be lame (esp without a diagnosis)- In time, it is possible that he may be a hack or even more, I have had personal experience of such a prognosis being wrong. I also think that being out of work or on restricted grazing does not necessarily mean he wont be happy.....I think it is a case of suck it and see. I'd give the horse a few months' rest in the paddock and see what happens after that.
 
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sorry but have i just read that the vets haven;t actually made any sort of diagnosis but yet they are telling the owner that the horse is a right off?????
seems a bit wrong to me, i think he should be given the opportunity to recover, they should invesigate properly what is wrong, make a diagnosis then give a prognosis. just because a horse is old doesn;t mean he should be ignored and left undiagnosed.

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No, I didnt say the horse was a write-off - I said that the vets had told the owner it was unlikely that he would ever be comfortable enough to be ridden - they have had him scanned, and nothing has come up; at present, they are waiting for an appointment to have him x-rayed, but it is likely that a problem he was diagnosed with regarding degeneration of his coffin joints when he was younger is what is underlying here. This issue was something that the owner only found out today - she finally managed to make contact with the vet of the previous owner.
Nothing is set in stone regarding his future nor his diagnosis, but she is mentally preparing herself for whatever lies ahead, and the vet has warned her it may not be good. I never said anything about the old boy being ignored, nor about him 'remaining undiagnosed.'
 
I thankfully haven't been in a situation like this. I find it very hard when people say their horses wouldn't enjoy not working. Yes it would take them a good length of time to adjust to the idea, but if still loved, groomed, cared for then why not - who really knows until they go through it themselves with their own horse? A horse I used to share had to be retired, and his owner always swore if he had to be retired she'd have him shot, because he was miserable when he was off work (pre retirement). Since then he has moved and is loving life again - retired.
 
It would depend on how comfortable he can be kept and how happy he becomes (or not) after six months off work. If he is only in mild pain he could be kept on some form of Devils Claw to relieve any pain. However, it would all depend on the actual diagnosis. The main thing is his quality of life, and I think he should be given some time to see what happens before making any decision.
 
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I find it very hard when people say their horses wouldn't enjoy not working. Yes it would take them a good length of time to adjust to the idea, but if still loved, groomed, cared for then why not - who really knows until they go through it themselves with their own horse?

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I agree entirely. Its an excuse people use to ease their conscience. Horses were not made to be ridden, it is a job that we have found for them to do in order for them to fit into the human world. If they didn't have it they would be meat animals. They're to expensive to take on purely to be pets and they wouldn't last long left to fend for themselves these days. A horse does not stand in its field or stable thinking "I wish someone would come and ride me", all they want is food, water, freedom, friends and (although they don't realise it) a vet when they're poorly. If a horse can have some turnout and company it doesn't crave work. Why can't people admit to PTS because:
- they want to ride
- they don't want to spend most of their wages on a field ornament
- they know it will be quick and a conclusion to tending to lame/ill horse
- its a better alternative to 're-homing' (fobbing off!) if you admit to yourself all of the above, as at least it gives the horse a dignified end.
 
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I find it very hard when people say their horses wouldn't enjoy not working. Yes it would take them a good length of time to adjust to the idea, but if still loved, groomed, cared for then why not - who really knows until they go through it themselves with their own horse?

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But there can also be the case where an animal is kept alive and possibly in distress and pain because the owner cannot bear the thought of euthanasia. It is a horrible decision when it comes to a much loved animal. But quality of life for them must be at the forefront of any decision.
 
I kept my elderly pony as a field ornament when she became too unsound to ride and although I'm sure she wasn't as happy as when she was a young fit horse doing a job, I don't think she was unhappy. I still got her in each day and groomed and made a fuss of her - everything the same except for the riding. I would say her arthritis got a lot worse when she retired so the little bit of exercise she could manage before she retired must have kept her ticking over a little. I probably kept her too long at the end in hindsight -I found it very hard to make the decision for PTS in the end because she could be cantering round the field one day and looking miserable the next. On the whole I'm glad to have kept her in retirement as she gave me years and years of joy - it seemed fitting to look after her into her old age - the only thing is keeping a close eye for the quality of life slipping as sometimes its so gradual that it can be hard to see that things have got to that point where a decision has to be made. I often asked outside peoples opinion on how happy they thought she was to be sure that I made the decision at the right time.
 
Someone says that vets give you worst case scenario - not in my case. They were very optimistic and I knew something was terribly wrong and it turned out to be cancer. If this pony is laminitic and therefore cant have a lovely life out at grass I'd have him pts - and thats having just done that for my girl.
 
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He's comfortable enough - he isnt hopping lame, but they know he is feeling a bit of pain because he wont do anything more than walk - and whereas he used to think nothing of jumping over the electric fence, he wouldnt dream of it now!.

[/ QUOTE ] If this is true, that he will only walk when turned out, when he used to be a lively horse in the field, and there is no prospect of him becoming any more sound (through time, treatment or medication), then I would PTS. It sounds like he is in chronic pain
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I'm a great softie and have an unsound paddock ornament of my own who I have kept for many years, BUT if she got to the stage where she no longer enjoyed having the odd trot or canter around the field, then I would feel that the time had come to make that final, sad decision.
 
I think it's important to get a conclusive diagnosis for his lameness. If it's degenerative then a PTS would probably be for the best, if not a trial period of retirement would be my choice to see how he copes with the inactivity before a decision as huge as PTS is considered. It's down to the horses quality of life and I'm sure the owner will make the right decision when the time comes.
 
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She knows her horse, so I wouldn't judge her whatever decision she makes.

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*claps* I agree entirely, well said.
Each situation is entirely individual. My horse may be un-rideable and I was told as soon as she was diagnosed to have her PTS "because there are no treatments". I told that vet where he could stuff his prognosis and changed vet practice. I now have a vet who is well known for being an AWFUL pessimist (you give her a horse with one problem, she comes up with 10 more problems!) but she was willing to give my horse a second chance. Maiden is probably on her fifth chance with me now, but as far as I am concerned that horse gave me everything and owes me nothing even after only eight months of riding, and most of all she is happy, healthy and 99.9% sound. I know that I will be able to tell when the time comes for her, but at the moment she is happy and that is what matters.
RE: diagnosis, please don't be too quick to condemn someone for not reaching a diagnosis. In some cases it isn't possible to make an accurate diagnosis, even in this day and age. My vet was happy to let my horse go through ultrasound and X-ray and be left undiagnosed, I had to push him to refer her for MRI. It cost a lot of money to do that, I've spent about double Maiden's price on vet fees, and some people just don't have that sort of money for a horse. Especially if the horse is older and so might not be covered under insurance for things like that. I was fully prepared to pay for Maiden's MRI if my insurance wouldn't and so we went ahead and pushed our vet for a referral, and luckily the insurance co. agreed and paid. To get the money though you have to prove a need for referral for further diagnostics. Maiden was covered for "basic" diagnostics (ultrasound and X-ray) at the vet's discretion, and hopefully so should this horse be, but if that still leaves the problem undiagnosed it is then a question of money and as I said, not many people are prepared to spend that sort of money.
I still agree with piebaldsparkle though, who are we to judge if we do not know the horse and owner in question?
 
I can postively say my horse would be sooo happy out of work which I suppose isn't a bad thing reading about this type of situation.
 
Agree with KVS. I have 2 elderly retired ponies (well ones a shetand so was never really ridden anyway, the other my very first pony). I feel that its a responsibility you accept when buying a horse - you owe it to them to keep them as long as they are happy IMO.
 
I don't think she can know that he will be unhappy until she sees how things go for a while. He may well be quite happy pottering about in his little paddock. Some horses take to retirement well and some don't. I have one who has been completely retired for over 2 and a half years, he is still looked after exactly the same as when he was ridden, he just doesn't get ridden anymore. He is very happy and very much one of the gang. On the other hand, I had an Arab who I had to retire on veterinary advice, his health deteriorated very quickly and he seemed thoroughly unhappy and we had him PTS at the end of summer. If I were your friend, I would see how things go for a while - there is no need to rush into any decision, unless she desperately wants another horse to ride and cannot afford to keep the old one.
 
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