Update from the girl who is ruining her horse!

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Switchthehorse

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Hi

So I posted a vid of our 'show jumping career to date' and the trials and tribulations of my mare earlier in the week, had some really helpful cc and then a few people who were pretty damning!!

One of the main suggestions was to get a professional to ride her, so thanks for this and this is exactly what i have done - twice - this week. I have had a professional sj ride her, and a rather well known dressage rider - both as part of lessons with them.

The verdict? 'It is like riding a tank' and 'it is like riding a double decker bus'. She is 'incredibly stubborn', 'incredibly obnoxious' and 'just won't give in, she thinks its her way or no way'.

However I did get heaps of helpful advice but with the caveat that there is a LONG road ahead, its not going to happen over night, it could take years, but she needs to learn to get off her forehand, carry her weight behind and use her back more. Both said 'I can see why you struggle with her' and both were shattered :) I have loads of exercises to try, both agreed there is nothing physically wrong with her (in terms of pain), and both say one day we will crack it and i should just keep going out there and TRYING classes but with the mindset that I ain't going to be a getting a rosette any time soon!!!

So thanks for the advice everyone, and for those of you who were angered/thought i was cruel/ruining my horse etc I hope you now have some peace of mind that it ISN'T me being hopeless - both riders agreed that 'she looks so much easier than she is'

Will keep you updated on our forthcoming adventures :)
 
Switchthehorse said:
Hi

So I posted a vid of our 'show jumping career to date' and the trials and tribulations of my mare earlier in the week, had some really helpful cc and then a few people who were pretty damning!!

One of the main suggestions was to get a professional to ride her, so thanks for this and this is exactly what i have done - twice - this week. I have had a professional sj ride her, and a rather well known dressage rider - both as part of lessons with them.

The verdict? 'It is like riding a tank' and 'it is like riding a double decker bus'. She is 'incredibly stubborn', 'incredibly obnoxious' and 'just won't give in, she thinks its her way or no way'.

However I did get heaps of helpful advice but with the caveat that there is a LONG road ahead, its not going to happen over night, it could take years, but she needs to learn to get off her forehand, carry her weight behind and use her back more. Both said 'I can see why you struggle with her' and both were shattered :) I have loads of exercises to try, both agreed there is nothing physically wrong with her (in terms of pain), and both say one day we will crack it and i should just keep going out there and TRYING classes but with the mindset that I ain't going to be a getting a rosette any time soon!!!

So thanks for the advice everyone, and for those of you who were angered/thought i was cruel/ruining my horse etc I hope you now have some peace of mind that it ISN'T me being hopeless - both riders agreed that 'she looks so much easier than she is'



Will keep you updated on our forthcoming adventures :)
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Didn't read the thread, but looks like you made your point! lol xxxx Glad you got some tips, good luck!
 
Didn't see your original thread, but glad you took the constructive criticism the right way! Good luck with your mare, I'm sure it will all be worth it in the end! Look forward to hearing about your adventures!
 
I didn't see the original thread either, but it is good that you are getting some help with what sounds like a tricky horse and not getting bogged down with 'de-constructive-criticism! And fair play for persevering :)
 
I don't mean to be so negative but have you thought that perhaps show jumping just isn't her thing?

Your flat work videos are very nice and she looks like she enjoys that. Sometimes I feel with horses we have to decide that they don't do what we want and we can adapt to that.

If you wish to keep pursuing jumping then I wish you luck and hope you achieve what you want to achieve which, if you don't mind me asking, are your aims with her? :)
 
I didn't see the original thread but I would say that if there is a question of whether or not your horse in in pain or discomfort you probably need a vet rather than just professional riders. They are trained in how to get the best of the horse they are presented with, vets are trained in how to look for any problems that can be fixed and fix them.

If the professionals were so negative about your horse I'd get different ones. Very few horses are obnoxious, but their training and management can make them that way (as can persistent annoying pain). I'd look for someone with a positive attitude towards your horse and what she can achieve happily (which might be flat work, jumping, TREC, happy hacking, driving, horse agility, side saddle,... the list goes on!) You don't need people telling you they don't like her and getting confrontational with her, you need someone who will help you both achieve your potential in whatever area(s) suit you and her as a partnership.
 
Eeek looks like I have started it all up again sorry about that :)

She has been checked, 100% by vets, saddlers, physios, osteopath, dentist, you name it i have thrown money at it, add in all the lessons I get and I am officially skint!!

She LOVES jumping at home - that was the thing, it is away from home I have problems. It is like she is a different horse.

She is and has always been incredibly strong minded, Richard Maxwell saw her and said she was more determined and dominant than most stallions he knew, that she thought she knew best and it was about almost making her think she was making the decisions and that was the way to get her to do things. So I spent money on him as well!! No wonder i am skint!!!

My plan is to do whatever we both enjoy and/or do well at. Our stressage is average, TREC is probably a no go, we happy hack, have been told I should show her ridden or working hunter and would love to event her, but realistically I reckon at least a year of pootling about trying everything and schooling schooling schooling is in order.

I didn't mean to start the 'is she in pain' debate again sorry, I actually wanted to reassure people :) FAIL!!!
 
Oh and sorry if I made it sound like the 'professionals' were negative - they were more sympathetic to my challenges, they were really helpful, rode her very calmly and nicely, didnt fight her or upset her, just gently worked with her to try and get a tune out of her. I am grateful for their support!! So don't worry she wasnt beaten!!
 
I did see your last post and though I didn't post on it, my reaction was that she was being a right stubborn git - you seem to want to keep with her but my reaction was sell her and get something that does want to co-operate! Best wishes with her all the same.
 
I agree with the above - good that you have accepted the problem, I do hope you now see it as an opportunity to train and develop her, maybe with long reins etc. So called professional riders tend to discard horses that don't play the game by their rules, and they can be extremely hard on horses.
Look for why she is "difficult" - is her mouth uneducated, is her musculature unfit and unable to do what is asked of her, is the question she is being asked unclear, does her tack cause discomfort - and so on. Take as a starting point the fact that ALL horses want to work with us and do what we want them to so long as they understand what that is and it doesn't cause them pain or discomfort.
And if you can find out the cause and work through the problems you will become so much better as a horseperson it will be well worth it in the end. Some horses are sent to teach us, I know mine was, so take the opportunity to learn from her. Good luck and enjoy the journey
 
I have seen the original thread, not sure if I have commented or not, though :o
At the time I thought that you otherwise lovely mare is being right pigheaded with you! I would look at bitting/noseband combination that will give you a bit more control over the direction she is taking you in :) IMO, and you are free to ignore it, this needs addressing in stages. Schooling at home is all well and good, and no doubt useful, but seeing as she mainly misbehaves away from home, you need to take her out as much as possible, too. I would start with making sure she doesn't duck out, even if she does stop at jumps, she is not to duck/turn away from them. Once you have that, you can work on actually getting over them ;)
One good tip about use of whip - it is supposed to send them forward, so if you do give her a good clout, make sure she does go forward pronto, and don't pull her up, even if it feels scary and out of control, just keep sending her forward.
 
After seeing the vids of your horse I have to say that you have my sympathies, she looked a difficult and stroppy ride, not to mention strong, that you rode very calmly.

Richard Maxwell is good at picking up and ruling out physical causes for behaviour from what I've seen, and I'm sure he would have commented if he thought that there were any issues in that area, and providing all the checks have been done (which they have) then I also think that it is a case of persevering with her.

I know lots of folk would have thrown the towel in and sold on, or else lost their temper and become aggressive with her, so I think that she is a very lucky mare to have an understanding owner.

Some horses just simply are stroppy and difficult and it is more a temperament thing rather than anything causing pain or discomfort (although they should always be checked for) and it can take some effort to find what makes them tick.

I agree with schooling is the key, but don't forget to get her out and do some fun things too, pleasure rides with possibly the odd fence thrown in?

I look forwards to seeing her progress and wish you every success with her.
 
I have to say, I saw the original thread and I think you're an incredibly patient rider. I know of several riders that would havce handled her VERY differently with negative consequences.

Well done for getting second and third and fourth opinions. Sounds like they have given some very sound advice.

All I was going to sugest is that you take her places for schooling rather than having the pressure of competing. That way you won't be against the clock or have the bell ringing (and her effectively getting away with it) if you have too many refusals etc. At least if you book an arena (maybe share with friends) yoou have the whole of your booked time to get her over the fence!!!

I also have to say that IMO flatwork is the foundation to good jumping. If you work on improving your flatwork, your jumping should improve with it. keep work varied and interesting. yes you want to work her well but don't drill her on the same things day in day out.

Good luck!
 
I didn't see your original post either but have checked it out now and I admit to having a giggle, sorry :D

I had a horse like this years and years ago. Fabulous jumper at home! All basics covered, all groundwork done, gridwork, you name it and he was a dream at home. At shows he was a bloomin nightmare. Seems a silly thing but what I started to do was enter the larger jumping classes on him and that seemed to get his attention better. Previously I had been taking him into smaller jumping classes as he was still young, but he just messed about in them. Mine didn't put in stops like yours or run out, he just larked around so much that he wouldn't listen or take my guidance to get us cleanly over them.

I don't think the cc you received in your last thread was that bad (it usually is FAR worse than that on here once they get going ;)) and many people were giving encouragement. I wouldn't be surprised if many have been in your situation at some point in their lives and know just how frustrating it can be.

All credit to you for keeping your cool every time your horse ran out or put in a stop. It's clear that she does like jumping because from the jumps SHE decides to jump she looks enthusiastic, but then she really does pop in those "stubborn moments". You can see it on her face.

I agree with Martlin with the pushing her forward. Once you've got that sorted out I think there's light at the end of the tunnel. I'd also get her out to as many different places as possible. I think I'd not so much go for the shows at this stage but I would be renting venues on a regular basis to give her experience of doing it right away from home as well as at home. Do you have a friend who is energetic? Would it be possible to have someone to help encourage her to get over the jumps?
 
Firstly can I just say what a lovely mare! You obviously have a great sense of humour :D:D and I had to laugh of the video, not maliciously either!

IMVHO and I'm certainly no expert, you ride her very nicely and kindly and on the odd occasion when she gets it right, she does it very nicely too ;)

Persevere, you will get there; she just has attitude thats all, and I love a horse with attitude (got Arabs so must do ;))

GOOD LUCK WITH HER and keep us updated with how you are getting along :)
 
Have just gone back and looked at your video.

What a nice looking mare but she certainly does know how to nap. Congratulations for keeping calm and persevering.

A couple of things struck me watching the video. One is that you tend to get in front of the movement in front of the jump which weakens your position and makes it sooo much easier for her to duck out the side. This is made even easier for her as your reins are a little long. You need to try and think of them of rail tracks and you have to channel her down between them.

Also, as Martlin said, you need to ride more forwards. I know this isn't easy when you have a horse who likes to duck out the side but strangely it does give you more control. Forwards doesn't always mean faster!

Good luck
 
eggs said:
Have just gone back and looked at your video.

What a nice looking mare but she certainly does know how to nap. Congratulations for keeping calm and persevering.

A couple of things struck me watching the video. One is that you tend to get in front of the movement in front of the jump which weakens your position and makes it sooo much easier for her to duck out the side. This is made even easier for her as your reins are a little long. You need to try and think of them of rail tracks and you have to channel her down between them.

Also, as Martlin said, you need to ride more forwards. I know this isn't easy when you have a horse who likes to duck out the side but strangely it does give you more control. Forwards doesn't always mean faster!

Good luck
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Completely agree after watching the video. Interesting that she almost always naps to the same side as well - worth baring that in mind and being very quick to swap your whip over.

Have you ever hunted her?? It was the making of my nappy little mare.

I also just love her.
 
I hadn't seen your last thread until I had read this one, so have just seen your video. I didn't read all of the comments so what I say may have been said before.

Firstly - well done you, for perserveering. I know how difficult it is.

I had a mare who was quite similar to yours when jumping, a six year old. I can't say she was as fast at refusing or that she bucked (but she just wasn't a bucky horse). Some days she jumped beautifully, some days she refused everything...some times she would jump some jumps and not the others. Alot of people thought it was because I got too infront of her when jumping (she was speedy horse too!). One particularly bad jumping session I decided to get the vet out just on an offchance- the vet thought she was very slightly lame. To cut a long story short I discovered after 8 months of tests she had osteo-arthritus of the hips and eventually (because it was crippling and untreatable) she was pts. The vets said it was very likely this is why she was so unpredictable. She was also spooky out riding.

Although I am not saying your mare has anything, just thought it may be insightful to hear the reason behind my horses jumping behaviour.

However I think your mare is superb and has the most amazing jump, when she jumps it. I hope things work out :). Well done again.
 
amymay said:
Completely agree after watching the video. Interesting that she almost always naps to the same side as well - worth baring that in mind and being very quick to swap your whip over.

Have you ever hunted her?? It was the making of my nappy little mare.

I also just love her.
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Agree you have a very nice horse and you are NOT ruining her. Was going to suggest hunting, where you'll be swept along by the rest, butamymay beat me to it!
 
Well done for keeping your cool !
Persevere with the lessons, bravo for accepting the comments, you obviously have the mares best interests at heart :)
seriously, persevere, it will come, my last horse was dismissed by everyone and I showed them all when he sold for 3x what I paid ! ;) with a years work you'l kick ass !

prehaps without realising you ride differently or are more nervous and she picks up on that when out? I think the ideas of jumping in an arena non-competivley is a very good idea, and joining a riding club, doing lots of un-competitive, informal jumping group sessions, you will find many others like you, its a really encouraging environment :)
 
I saw the original thread & it was in no way offensive there was no cruelty, beating etc...

I'm sorry that people were rude such a shame when people come on here for advice and in fact in your case I didn't feel like you wanted advice, you intended just to show your funny video moments:-)

So pleased you have found a combination of instructors who can help you persist in her schooling (aka attitude change!). Rosettes are soo over-rated anyway!!!!

Hx
 
I have a horse who was just HORRIBLE to ride, stressy, bargy, argumentative, uncomfortable, you name it!

Dressage was out, jumping was out, hacking wasn't much fun either...

So we spent a year doing non-competitive endurance, which he turns out to be quite good at, but most importantly it got all the b*ll sh*it out of his system and now his attitude has changed so much we're considering a bit of jumping and dressage again!
 
Ok, so, I'm on a PC where I can see the vids now...

She doesn't look happy jumping. She clearly isn't just nasty/spiteful to rider... she looks lovely with you in the dressage videos.

But she isn't happy jumping.

Could be a confidence thing... she certainty scared herself knocking down the first part of a red combination before running out in one of the indoor bits... (give yourselves a break? take a few weeks/months off the jumping (comps), start with tiny things you can both do nicely together and don't put the pressure on both of you for a while?)

Could also be that something hurts. No idea what and not qualified to comment but I'd guess *possibly* front limbs on landing as she backs up and spins fine.

Or she *may* just not like jumping unfamiliar things (possibly bad experience in the past?). In which case you can work on it.

At any rate best of luck with her. She looks lovely when she is happy.

Oh, and I read the other thread... TBH you get a lot worse on here, overall tone was supportive... as it should be!

ETS: that all sounds as though I know far much more than I do... I'm not an experienced jumper of refusers if you see what I mean... just interested in how ppl relate to their horses.
 
some horses are just more quirky than others, you can put time and effort into her, and she is a nice pony, or sell her - a lot of people would sell her.

But I have worked through some issues with some horses that were difficult, with help from more experienced people, and while time consuming and expensive - I have enjoyed making progress, and learnt a lot along the way. This type of experience helps to make you a more rounded horse person. So if you are happy to continue - then do so and enjoy the journey. I know others that have done the same thing and the reward in sense of achievement are well worth the frustration.

I am in an adult riding club, and they run lots of training days and these include work across cross poles (almost poles on the ground) when you feel ready to venture out - if you had something like this available maybe it would be less of a challenge. My kids started on these (when they were fine at home but pony naughty out, but not as naughty as yours), and they would do the X rails and then the following rounds 45cm 50 cm and 60 cm, all in same day. They would never have an issue after doing the first round.
 
She does look difficult and I can see you are going to keep going .Good on you. Just 2 suggestions,
Have you tried taking her to a show centre and staying for a few days ,have lessons in arena for a day or two before they run a show so she thinks of it as home? If you could find somewhere that was helpful it may let you then stable the night before future comps and start to break the cycle.It would cost a fair bit but it sounds like shes a money pit anyway.
Other thing, I have never used one but I read somewhere that a top event rider works/jumps his horses in a market harborough It would be worth a try as only comes into use when needed and is SJ legal.
Good luck with her.
 
I would agree with taking her hunting. It really helped my stroppy little man once he had got over the initial tantrum. As does a good 2 hours up on the moors.
 
If the problem is jumping when away from home, then you should pick a local, take her out training there and then compete there too when she is so used to the surroundings that it is like jumping at home :D Haha, little 'cheating' never hurt anyone .......

Of course I say this in jest before anyone starts! ;)

:D
 
Where are you based? Our local RC has clear round jumping evenings every week and it's been perfect for getting my stroppy (welsh) mare out and doing as she's told! They were very patient and you don't have to worry about getting eliminated, it's also cheaper at £2.50 a round!
Would it be worth you doing something like that? If not I am another in favour of hunting her.
 
:)
Tickles said:
Ok, so, I'm on a PC where I can see the vids now...

She doesn't look happy jumping. She clearly isn't just nasty/spiteful to rider... she looks lovely with you in the dressage videos.

But she isn't happy jumping.

Could be a confidence thing... she certainty scared herself knocking down the first part of a red combination before running out in one of the indoor bits... (give yourselves a break? take a few weeks/months off the jumping (comps), start with tiny things you can both do nicely together and don't put the pressure on both of you for a while?)

Could also be that something hurts. No idea what and not qualified to comment but I'd guess *possibly* front limbs on landing as she backs up and spins fine.

Or she *may* just not like jumping unfamiliar things (possibly bad experience in the past?). In which case you can work on it.

At any rate best of luck with her. She looks lovely when she is happy.

Oh, and I read the other thread... TBH you get a lot worse on here, overall tone was supportive... as it should be!

ETS: that all sounds as though I know far much more than I do... I'm not an experienced jumper of refusers if you see what I mean... just interested in how ppl relate to their horses.
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I agree with much here, I have struggled with horses who have lost their confidence jumping and had varying reasons for success. The first 1 was "cured" by going on a sponsored ride with an excellent lead pony. Okay so it was a little embarrassing being given a lead by a child on a 13.2, but boy could they jump. 10 miles and 40 jumps (some huge!) later and showjumps were a breeze. But that was a gelding! My mare has also been described as "dominant" but shas turned out to have problems with "foot balance", more frequent, specialised shoeing has sorted her (vast expense, negative xrays, and vet referral to fabulous farrier later) With the current mare I have kept away from jumping as general confidence between us needed sorting before we could think of leaving the ground! I dread to give advice but is there any other communality, other than being away from home? like being near the end of her shoeing cycle, or even mares cycle? I'm sure you are doing/have done everything! She does look lovely and you are clearly very happy together, generally! It was lovely to see your pleasure at the end of the test!
Best of luck!:)
 
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