update on Betty who lost her foal

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elizabeth1

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I've had so many messages of support over the loss of our foal and I wanted to thank you all.
Betty is recovering well physically and has gone out in the field today with her 2 year old daughter and her other companions.I think she has at last accepted her foal is dead although she was distressed last night after the body was finally removed.
She has been happy all day in the field so I think the window for fostering has now passed-to move her now and milk her again would now be more stressful to her.
Joanna Vardon at the Foaling bank has been a tower of strength as have our wonderful vets[Shotter and Byers]
We will breed from Betty again because she is such a good mother but will not cover her until next year to give her time to recover and this time she will go to a smaller stallion.
 
It's so sad, I am glad she is recovering. It still seems so unfair!

My mare had a colt foal at 9.30 pm last night and we have had an awful time with him, it looked like we might lose him at lunch time today but thank goodness he now seems to be on the mend. Like Bettys foal he too is huge.
(((HUGS))) to you and Betty and Thankyou for the update I have been thinking of you both.
 
Thank you for the update, it is good to hear how they are doing. I'm glad she is dealing with her loss, poor girl.
 
Thanks for the update... I'm glad she's doing well and getting over her loss... must be so hard for her bless her.

Out of interest, how big was the stallion compared to her? did the vet give you any idea why the foal grew so big or did he just put it down to 'one of those things'... There seem to have been an awful lot of very big foals this year...
 
Betty is a 16.2 by El Conquistador a T.B by Shirley heights therefore grandsire Mill Reef and her dam is by the HIS stallion Chocolate Bean [TB] out of a Dallas mare.
Betty had such a beautiful filly by Mill Law who is of course 16.2 in 2008 that I used him again hoping to replicate the beautiful conformation and wonderful temperament that this filly has.
I think this colt foal must have been a throwback to Dallas who of course threw so many wonderful show hunters-he was perfect but huge.When the vets examined him they said he was the size of most 2 or 3 week old foals.Betty was 3 days overdue just as she had been with the filly.The filly is also well grown-she will probably be 17 hands I think.
I have been careful not to overfeed and the vets are adamant Betty was in picturebook condition-her back is covered but you can feel and just see her ribs.She is certainly not in show condition! She was fed 2 feeds a day of 1 scoop Alfa A a half stubbs scoop Top spec conditioning cubes and half their recommended amount of stud balancer.
I have thought long and hard about stud balancers as a result of this.With the full sister filly I had fed Dodson and Horrell Mare and youngstock mix.Haylage was the same both times.I think this case was simply a throwback to hunter type genes and that is why although I couldn't wish for a better filly than mine I will use a small TB type who throws small next time as I couldn't put Betty through this again.
So here are 2 potential new threads!
1 What small eventing sires can anyone recommend?
and 2 Does anyone think balancers grow a foal too big?
 
A specialist remedial farrier we use from time to time, and has a lifetime's experience, says that the huge increase in his work is due to overfeeding protein, vits amd mins. When you think back (as I can) foals with developmental issues were pretty well unheard of 'back then'.

I tend to tread very carefully I must say, and we breed big horses at times here, and that is genetics not feed.
 
Really good news that Betty is feeling more herself, it must have been a terribly distressing time for you all.
On a slight tangent to the large foal question, we are sheep farmers (both my mares barren this year) and have had a vast amout of massive, big headed lambs, even though we havent fed any more or for any longer than last year... we think it may be due to the harsh winter and the mother giving everything to her offspring.... hmm.
Take care x
 
interestingly Re the balancers thing, I had a filly who grew very big and developed OCD in her stifles as a weanling... she was in the first crop of foals her breeder had weened onto topspec balancer having previously just fed add-lib hay and allowed access to a vitamin and mineral block, so yes, I do think balancers play a big part in 'overdoing' foals...

Don't get me wrong, I believe they have a place but they are simply too high in protein, amongst other things to be fed to broodmares / foals IMO.

Good luck in finding Betty a smaller husband for next year. I hope she continues to perk up...
 
Hi. My beautiful mare (3/4 TB eventer), Missy, lost her foal in the same circs this Thursday just gone. The shoulders were just too big and despite out best efforts and the vets we couldn't get the filly out in time. Thankfully in a bizarre twist the drugs given to stop the labour so we could transport her to a c section had the effect of allowing her to pass the shoulders enough for us to pull the already failing foal out. Missy is making a remarkable recovery. The sire is Millenium who has been shown to throw big foals, none of which have ended with this problem before.

The filly foal was about the size of a 4 week old, Missy was a maiden so not sure whether her inexperience and possibly not previously stretched canal had anything to do with it, but I am quite interested in what you are asking about the feed balancers as I too have fed a balancer - Saracen biolife in addition to the stud cubes. Missy also has no additional weight on her, but is obviously in good health to be bouncing back so well.
 
Nicole, so sorry to hear of your loss. It is awful to lose your foal especially so late but I am glad your mare is OK and didn't have to have a C Section.

I don't know if you have been reading other threads on here but it does seem a lot of mares have had problems this year.

My mare Frex threw a hugh colt this time and had problems delivering him, then he was a dummy foal apparently caused partly by the traumatic birth and partly as he really wasn't ready to be born. Thankfully he is now fine but it was touch and go for a few days. I also lost both my mare (Holly) and her foal in March, the vet commented that her foal was huge for the gestation (290 days), he looked like a newborn apart from his very sparse coat.

I have a Millenium foal due in around 2 weeks and have stopped feeding TopSpec Stud Balancer. Instead I have gone back to what I did in previous years and just add codlavine to her normal feed. She also has access to a cattle vit/mineral block and a natural rack salt in her box.

It does make me wonder if by feeding suppliments in an effort to do the best by our mares and foals we are somehow going against nature!
 
So sorry for your loss. We have 7 mares to foal 2 have foaled already and they are on Baileys Stud Balancer. So far the first 2 came out with no problem one mare being a maiden. We have a mare 1 month overdue tomorrow so will wait and see how we get one with her.
 
I'm so glad that Betty is recovering, it's been a traumatic time for you all.

It does make me wonder that perhaps it's not the stud balancer the culprit as such but possibly feeding that alongside conditioning cubes as neither are formulated to be fed alongside other feeds.
My vets and farrier say exactly the same about large foals; they used to be unusual but now they seem the norm and I am sure a lot of it is the feeding of the mare that is the culprit in many of these cases especially if the mares are not kept fit by being out as much as possible which is sometimes due on restrictions at livery yards. Please don't get me wrong, this isn't aimed at anyone at all, just a greneral observation but it's only comparatively recently, that people without their own premises have decided to breed so they don't have the final say on how much turnout their animals get which is not a good thing if it's restricted at all. Couple that with many thinking they HAVE to feed their mares well, which in their case, sometimes means too much protein and not enough forage, it's just adding to problems. A lot of the blame has to go to feed companies too for marketing such feeds so well (who can blame them, they've seen a market and are using it) that people think they must have this and that latest feed if their foals are to be successful; sadly, this couldn't be further from the truth as many of the amounts in the guidance are hugely over estimated too but this is for another thread I think.
 
I must agree that being fairly "old school", I am in agreement that many broodmares are the victims of too much nutrition in the wrong balance. I have heard at least three incidents in the last two weeks of mares with delivery complications, sadly in all but one case both mare and foal were euthanised (in utero) as C-sections were just not possible due to distance. These were experienced mares also.

Without doubt, foaling complications have been on the increase and maybe nutrition is just one aspect of it, another may well be the wrong stallion for the wrong mare, it is essential to research your pedigrees at least 5 generations back and try to analyse what could be brought forward.

I had my first real taste of oversized foals last year with an experienced mare who is a poor doer at the best of times. I used a stud balancer alongside her usual straights and added vitamins. She needed assistance to deliver the filly who was huge.

This time I am back to my usual feed even though it means my girl will look poor after the birth and for the first couple of months of nursing.

I do not have faith in feed company representatives after chatting with some at the Thoroughbred expo in Goffs this year. Some of the basic errors and ideas they were putting across were outrageous. I am not saying their qualified nutritionists would be at fault but at the end of the day they are selling products and however balanced their rations may be, it falls down because of the variable pasture and forage we feed too.

The old saying of "feed by eye" goes a lot further and if you know how to tell a horse in good health, by the look in his eye, the shine on his coat and his hoof quality, you can save yourself plenty of money and if you are competing at the highest levels, a blood test will tell you if you are lacking anything.

It is too sad to think that we may be inadvertently harming our beloved horses through trying to be too good to them.

Anyway apologies for rant but I have been awfully upset by people's stories this year it has not been good. I am delighted for Betty bless her and good luck in the future with her:)
 
We have fed balancers for years with no problems, previously baileys and for the last 3yrs dodson and horrell suregrow. We do however feed it with just alfa A and haylage, so using it just to make sure the mares are getting mins and vits. The youngsters get the same their first winter but after that only haylage with a min block which they love. They come out of the winter lean but soon pick up and the mares seem to have good strong foals without any probs. Our mares have to be barned from december as we are on clay but they are walkered every day even if they are not keen.
 
How terribly sad.. We lost a mare last year who had a huge foal. we had to perform a c section in the stable after putting the mare down as she would not have been able to travel. We delivered a huge colt who was then brought up by a section D thanks to Joanne Vardon. She was not fed on balancers but was 1 month overdue and was in far more than i would have liked as she was going crazy in the snow....no we did not choose to have a January baby but a mistake was made by the stud!

We had horrible experiences with stud balancers and had a large amount of bone problems. We feed Winergy Equilibrium Growth now and have had foals with excellent limbs and the last 2 years excellent x rays........
 
So sorry to hear that you too have lost a foal.I think Betty's loss was probably just one of those things that sometimes happen,particularly as she had 2 years previously had an easy birth with the older sister of the lost foal.
re the balancers-I do wonder if we just overdo the feeding with too many vitamins and minerals and yeast additives these days.I am seriously thinking of feeding old fashioned oats,sugar beet,linseed and chaff with good hay and a simple supplement like Dodson and Horrel Surelimb next time.It will certainly be cheaper!And I did not feed a balancer previously.

I'm glad to hear your mare is doing well.Betty is continuing to thrive.
 
I managed not to read page 2 of this thread so the comment about I'm glad to hear your mare is doing well was a reply to Nicole on the previous page and not to you,Cocktail-I was sorry to read your news.
Maesfen-I'd be interested to read what you feed your mares of similar type to Betty [16.2 eventer 3/4 tb 1/4 selle francais.]Betty is out in the field 24/7 up to January and then out 8 hours a day January to April.The fields are our own, unfertilised,and hilly with a large acreage so I think she had enough exercise.But I would love to hear what an experienced breeder like you would feed.
 
I said earlier in this thread what the specialist farrier had to say on the subject of 'modern' feeding practices, which reults in his opinion in him being busier than ever.

I have also used Winergy for the last 2 years and have had good straight foals with no issues at all, and the mares have looked fab. on it. I do not, however, feed at the recc. rate or I'd be bankrupt so I top up with a reduced amount of a bog standard vit/min supplenent such as Benevit.

Micronised linseed adds in some protein and oil.
 
Of all the problems I had tried not to encounter and avoid, being too big was never one of them!

I will be having a long discussion with the stud vet this week and see what her thoughts are on the matter - I will let you all know if there are any definitive answers.....

Holly - fingers crossed for your Millenium foal - I have yet to see one that isn't utterly gorgeous, my poor little one included.
 
chrissie1,

I also do not feed Winergy at the prescribed dose as just too expensive!! However I have mares that live out completely until last month. I feed a very normal pony cube with a vitamin and mineral supplement and then in the last 3 months slowly introduce Winergy.

I am carefull though for the first 2 years of the youngsters life I feed Winergy Growth. We used to feed the lactating mares another very popular feed for studs and were told NOT to let the foals trickle feed it......difficult and very expensive in staff time!!
 
The only way to keep foals out is to have the mares feeds high enough that they can't reach in, we can do this as we have corner mangers fitted high enough to stop them.
But you'd have to ask what is so detrimental to the foals in a feed that they should be prevented from eating it.
My yearling by Demonstrator is huge, and she has never tasted anything 'exotic' in her life, she is the first foal born to a mare (we only have two though :rolleyes:) to a mare on Winergy.
 
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