update on dobe and more help needed please

Chestnuttymare

Chestnuttymare

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I posted a couple of weeks ago about my young dobe bitch which has just come to me at 11 months old.
The recall thing is getting better but the latest problem is that, if i meet another dog when i have my 2 on the lead, they work each other up into a mad barking frenzy and are starting to turn on each other. I can stop them going forward to the dog but trying to keep them apart is not so easy. It's like the hounds of the fookin baskervilles.
It's not funny really, they are fine as long as we don't meet anything else in the street before getting to the park.
The recall thing is getting better but not good enough so i am going to keep her on the long line and use special treats for a bit more time.
She is also very vocal if i have to leave her in the stable. She is in there with cara so not being left on her own. Cara is getting quite impatient with her over this. I always give them a treat when i go back even if it has only been for about 5 mins.
Advice will be gratefully received. thanks.
I am starting to get a bit wobbly about whether i have done the right thing here.
hoping cavecanem and finnishlapphund and anyone else knowledgable can help me out please
 
Is there any chance you could walk them apart until the new girl settles? Who is picking what up from who, do you think?

If not, is there something you could distract them with, super yummy food, squeaky toy, your voice, when you first see the other dog, act then, start getting animated to distract them.
You need to keep calm and not get anxious as this will filter through to them.

How do you walk them right now, collar/lead combo, one on either side, both to the left, both to the right?

It's early days with the recall, it will take time x
 
I can't really walk them seprately as i don't really have the time and they both need a fair bit of exercise.
Cara is def the instigator, well Jin (new one) sort of paws or noses at cara to get her to join in and cara just flies at her. I can just see this escalating to be honest. I have one on left and one on right. The idea being that Cara is established walking on left and once i get the other one walking properly then they will both walk on my left.
I used to walk 3 dobes and a lab on my left to heel and found that was the best way.
So, i can't use treats or toys as i need another hand lol.
I am worried really as cara has a brilliant temperament and never gone for anything ever. I am losing sleep over all this tbh. I feel like a prat, i am very good at helping sort other peoples dogs out and seem to be totally lost here.
I know what you are saying about the stress going down the lead but it's difficult to stay calm, i am really trying though.
 
I walk two, you can use your hands if you try!

What collars/leads are they on now? You can also try lots of directional changes, keep everything fluid and moving all the time, don't stop, even when they start, as many distractions as possible, rather than focusing on waiting for them to start and wondering how to get them apart, think rather about keeping them occupied, entertained, interested, on that journey to the park.
It's basically trying to show them that you won't be tolerating any silliness and the three of you are just going to keep moving.
 
cara is on a half check and Jin on a check until she learns how to walk properly and it's not acceptable to lunge off wherever she likes. It has worked well as she is walking quite nicely mostly.
So if we see another dog, should i change direction then?
 
See if it works! I worked with a bitch who was a bit gobby and lungey and the dog would remain in sight, but we were on a green - on the pavement, you could turn back on yourselves a bit, turn left, turn right, cross the road, cross back - you may look like a berk but it is worth it, if it works.

Don't remove and walk off in the other direction altogether as this will heighten frustration.
 
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Hrm hm, I own Spitzes, you want my advice about ''mad barking frenzy''
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, <u>though my Finnish Lapphunds are actually quite quiet</u>, I still try to stay away from threads asking advice about how to stop dogs from barking.
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I've heard about single dogs that works themselves up to a frenzy when meeting other dogs on the street, to a point where they have to do something to release their tension, sometimes resulting in biting its owner. By the sound of it, your two dogs takes/tries to take out that tension on each other.

What do you do when you are about to meet another dog? Do you shorten their leads? Try bringing even yummier treats, don't feed them a while before going out for the walk and then try to keep them on loose leads and use the extra yummy treats to make them focus on you. Ask for it also when there is no other dog in sight. If they already have stressed each other up to a point where they have trouble focusing on you but are still not to stressed up to eat, throw some of the yummy treats on the ground in the other direction than the dog is coming from and let them search for the treats, then try and make them focus on you again.





Is there any way you can arrange with someone to do a staged training to meet strange dog? You agree about meeting somewhere where you can tie one of your dogs to a tree, walk towards the other dog owner, stop at arms length from each other, demand that your dog sit down, shake hand and say Hello to the other owner, praise your dog with extra yummy treats if she still is sitting, otherwise take a step or so back, get new contact with your dog, step forward and try again.

You can then change dog and let the other dog do the same. Make your dogs connect extra yummy treats with sitting still and letting you do all the talking so to say, where you are the one taking responsibility for the situation.
Basically you can do whatever you think will work to get their attention and at the same time makes them connect extra yummy treats with meeting other dogs.





About the other problem, is it just at the stable? How about bringing one each of a frozen Kong stuffed with carrot puree or similar with you in a freezer bag and give them as a distraction? Maybe she feels unsafe there for some reason, can you leave her somewhere else, like in a changing room, your car, bring a crate? Maybe you could teach her at home to stay and wait on a certain dog rug, until you can go to the kitchen or toilet and she will still be on it when you come back, then you bring the rug with you to the stable and tell her to wait on it?


Sorry this is all I can come up with this late.
 
Dobes are not the easiest of breed so hats of for being persistant.
This is a common scenario for 2 dogs to turn, they are focusing their frustration at not being able to get at the dog and instead are focusing that on each other, you need to be confident and firm in reprimand, try not to hold your arms up to keep them apart (so u end up feeling weak (like u need a sugar hit)
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and your arms go dead after all has settled instead try and focus on the instigator, then thinking ahead but not acting head and try and get in a good check and a "LEAVE IT" in a Im not messing about manor
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I trained a dog that focused on others to the opoint of stupidness, as much as I never began to wrap the lead around my hand and panic, he would be given a firm "LEAVE IT" and a cesar style nudge in the side to snap him out of the fixation to give him a heads up I was as alert as he was but in a "thats your warning" before you even begin.
As suggested get past the dog in question, but stop immediately to straighten your 2 out if they are still up a height, make them sit and give them a good dressing down via a check on the lead and your voice, then calmly walk off.
To this he would move closer to my side and keep his eyes on me, to watch my next move or reprimand.
Don't care if you raise your voice to the passer by, or that u sound like a seargant major with your commands
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and firmness, all that matters is that the dogs head your warning.
I have trained a few dobes....I feel for you.

Ps try using the LEAVE IT in other instances when u need to be firm in an instance where you are not in a heightened situation, this way they wil know the LEAVE IT word and that it means u mean business.
 
Thanks guys, you have given me lots to work on and a focus. I have been so down about it, like I say, I am not a novice dog owner and all the stuff you have suggested makes sense.
Last night and this morning i was almost giving up on it, that is not what we all want, we love her to bits and my 11 year old son just adores her. I wouldn't pass her on to anyone as they are a sensitive breed and I couldn't do the pillar to post thing. Her owner would have her back but not sure that she can cope and then maybe she would end up finding someone else for her. I just want the best for everyone.


Finnishlapphund - I know you have a different sort of breed but I have read a lot of your posts on here and you always talk a lot of sense.
Thats why i wanted the 3 of you to respond as you all have a good understanding of things like this.

finnishlapphund - I do have them on a pretty short lead at the moment, i will do the looser lead and take some chicken with me rather than the usual gravy bones. I cna also set up the 'stranger' thing too.

Calyla- i have always had dobes but never really had any sort of problems, did obedience and agility etc. but i know they can be quite difficult in some ways.
I am at an advantage here as both of them know 'leave it' and are good at it. I do use it when I am out but I don't think I am remaining calm enough and also I need to take their focus away from the distraction.

I need to spend more time one on one with her too so i can focus better, and get it sorted rather than just fire fighting when a problem presents itself.

Thanks to you all and to cavecanem for helping last night at stupid o'clock.
I feel a bit better about this now and just need to put the work in and keep calm.
 
No worries and good luck, Finny and Cayla have, as always, given some excellent advice, you have the right ideas, we are just here to shove you in the right decision
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I am the same, had GSDs all my life and thought I knew a lot until *someone* came along
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he has been a good teacher!
 
The beginning of my first reply was due to the images I got in my head, when thinking of someone asking a spitz owner about advice on how to stop a dog from barking. <u>To exaggerate it a little</u>, my advice would be 1, yummy treats and spray bottle with water. If that does not work 2, buy large amounts of really good ear plugs.
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Although Finnish Lapphunds are quite quiet for a spitz breed, they still quickly decides if something is bark-worthy or not bark-worthy. They usually shuts up when I tell them it is enough but sometimes when they do something they enjoy, they can bark somewhat out of happiness and excitement.





To leave the barking to its fate, no matter how long you have had dogs and how much you know about dogs, as with most other things it is easy to become home-blind and in need of a little input from others.

To clarify/something I forgot to say last night, the thing with trying to have a little bit longer and looser leads, is that a short/shortened lead can incite the dog, it can also become a trigger so that the dog views a short tense lead as a signal to tense up, anticipating that something will happen.
So with a little longer lead that you can keep a good slack on, besides allowing the dog to feel better if you give a sharp tug, a relaxed lead could be seen as a signal about that the situation is relaxed.


Good luck.
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quote'no matter how long you have had dogs and how much you know about dogs, as with most other things it is easy to become home-blind and in need of a little input from others.'


yep, that's it totally, you put that really well.
xxx
 
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