Update on headshaking 4yo - looks a little neurological

[Jinx94]

On thursday I took Arya to see Veronica Roberts. It didn't go quite as I had hoped.
Arya behaved incredibly well. It's the furthest that I've travelled her and she's been minimally handled for the last month or so, so I was very proud that she was so good for people that she didn't know.

Despite the painkillers she's been on, she was still headshaking quite severely on arrival and in the stable. She threw us a bit of a curveball by improving a little on the lunge. She reacted when her neck was palpated and was very stiff when asked to flex it, she also looked a little neurological at times.
Arya will be going back next week for a few days to have a neurological work up and CT myelogram, we'll CT her head at the same time. We may medicate her neck depending on how the scan looks.

Veronica was fantastic, she's taking a real interest and is very keen to help us get to the bottom of it. Unfortunately she was kind but clear about our priority at the moment being finding a way to get Arya comfortable.

I have no idea how this is going to pan out and am terrified. All we can do is try.

If anyone has anything (stories/advice/anything) to share, that would be amazing x

 

[Afon_34]

No advice but didn’t want to read & run x

 

[TheMule]

I'm really sorry to read this, what rotten luck for you both.
Veronica is amazing- she fought so hard to save my yearling a few years ago (not head shaking related) and I will always remember her kindness

 

[Jinx94]

I'm really sorry to read this, what rotten luck for you both.
Veronica is amazing- she fought so hard to save my yearling a few years ago (not head shaking related) and I will always remember her kindness

She's incredibly kind and I feel very lucky to have her helping us.

Feeling powerless right now. Hard to believe that I initially called the vet as she seemed to have something stuck up her nose.

 

[misst]

No advice but this sounds a challenge for both of you. I hope something positive comes out of it. She's obviously lucky to have such a caring owner.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

No advice, just wishing you all and Arya all the best. X

 

[Kunoichi73]

Same as others, no advice but sending best wishes for a positive outcome

 

[eahotson]

Just want to send my best wishes.

 

[Laurac13]

Best wishes from me too my fingers are crossed for you x

 

[rextherobber]

Best wishes

 

[SashaBabe]

Fingers crossed for you x

 

[onemoretime]

Good luck and I hope the problem can be sorted.

 

[Wishfilly]

Sorry it doesn't sound overly positive right now, I hope you get to the bottom of it and it's something that can be treated/helped.

 

[Horseysheepy]

Hoping you get some positive answers, sounds like you have a good plan in place.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Have you got any video footage OP??

Hoping it isn't trigeminal nerve headshaking........ that is a horrible condition whether human or equine and sadly without wishing to be gloomy there is little that can be done if this is the diagnosis. Had to say goodbye to my lovely 10yo girly because of it.

Thinking of you, it isn't easy when you don't know what the heck is going on.

 

[nutjob]

The thing that helped my horse with trigeminal neuralgia the most was a nose net when ridden and a dark coloured fly hood with nose cover when turned out. Various things can trigger or exacerbate it so it really comes down to the owner to see what affects their particular horse. It might help to strip back the diet incase there is anything in the feed which is making it worse. Mine couldn't have grass - only hay or haylage. Also, nothing with glucosamine or echinacea. He was always hot and it was easy to over rug him. Keep a diary of daily symptoms, weather conditions, turned out or kept in, work load. Mine was perfectly fine indoors but much worse on bright sunny days and especially when the light level changed like exiting a wood into sunlight. Low sun in the evening was the worst. Mine did dressage to UA elementary and eventing to BE90 and was only PTS at age 16 for unrelated reasons so they can live with it. There was very little at that time the veterinary profession could do to help and it really came down to management.

I also had one years ago with a liver problem who started head shaking and he was improved with steroids. He had an odd stance and would stick a hind leg out the back and put his head between his front legs and shake as though he had something stuck in his ears. Once the liver problem was identified and treated the head shaking never returned.

Mine didn't have any of the tests you mention, only a temporary nerve block which did give a clear result for my horse but is not recommended so much now. Good luck it's a horrible condition, I hope you find a solution.

 

[Jinx94]

Here are a couple of videos from when it started:

https://imgur.com/eYKTVRC

https://imgur.com/2sNxioE

Now she'll headshake and snort every 5-15 seconds while eating.

She's been chilling in a field for most of the year. I've struggled with time around work and finding help on the ground, so I've only sat on her once.

If she's standing quietly or picking at grass, it's minimal. Harder food (hay or hard feed) or the slightest bit of pressure on her face sets her off. It's pretty much constant with a headcollar on unless something gets her attention/spikes her adrenaline.

 

[nutjob]

It's the same motion as mine which had trigeminal neuralgia but a lot more frequent. Reading your other thread, she was previously fine when turned out and it came on when she was brought in. It can take quite a while for the bodies response to allergens to calm down even after they have been removed, if she's not in contact with the hay / bedding now maybe she will improve.

Mine also had urticaria as well as the headshaking and I was advised to try shredded paper as a bedding although in the end it made no difference. I also used marksway alfalfa for a while, completely excluding any type of grass which suited him very well. I don't think this is a good long term solution but we were in a last chance situation by then.

It will be really interesting to see if anything comes of the further tests, you are having far more investigations done than I did. I hope you get it under control, it's very stressful when they are like this and you don't know how to help them.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Having watched the videos it is hard to judge and I'd be reluctant to do so without seeing more of her out and about in the field and moving.

With mine, we took a fair bit of footage and my vet then sent it up to the headshaking expert at Bristol Vet College.

Don't know whereabouts in the country you are OP but this might be an option i.e. your vet referring it up to the local vetschool or even somewhere like Newmarket where there will no doubt be someone.

I was warned that even reaching a firm diagnosis would be difficult, and would be costly; let alone the cost of treatment and the effectiveness of same....

Sooh soh sorry. that is a lovely youngster you have there and I am sure you'd want to explore every possibility.

 

[Jinx94]

Having watched the videos it is hard to judge and I'd be reluctant to do so without seeing more of her out and about in the field and moving.

With mine, we took a fair bit of footage and my vet then sent it up to the headshaking expert at Bristol Vet College.

Don't know whereabouts in the country you are OP but this might be an option i.e. your vet referring it up to the local vetschool or even somewhere like Newmarket where there will no doubt be someone.

I was warned that even reaching a firm diagnosis would be difficult, and would be costly; let alone the cost of treatment and the effectiveness of same....

Sooh soh sorry. that is a lovely youngster you have there and I am sure you'd want to explore every possibility.

I think we might be seeing the same specialist that you did

Veronica Roberts is (according to my vet) the best in the country for headshaking. She's only at the veterinary hospital one day a week, the rest of the time she's teaching at Bristol.

Hopefully we'll find something that we can do something about, but will just have to see how it goes. I took her in last night and have just had a message to say that she's settled well. The procedure is booked for tomorrow so I'll make sure to keep the thread updated x

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I think we might be seeing the same specialist that you did

Veronica Roberts is (according to my vet) the best in the country for headshaking. She's only at the veterinary hospital one day a week, the rest of the time she's teaching at Bristol.

Hopefully we'll find something that we can do something about, but will just have to see how it goes. I took her in last night and have just had a message to say that she's settled well. The procedure is booked for tomorrow so I'll make sure to keep the thread updated x

^^^ Yeaph think this was the name. I believe she has a clinic (you can ask for your vet to refer you to it); I remember seeing some footage of horses she'd got there.

Hoping for the best for you both X

 

[webble]

I would do a lot of research into the effectiveness and cost of the various treatments before agreeing to any as sadly some have limited relief and can be quite costly and/or invasive

 

[Jinx94]

Quick update based on voicemail received just now. Will discuss with vet in more detail shortly.

Head CT was completely clear, she has slight OCD in her neck but it's not affecting the nerves.

Overall thought is trigeminal nerve.

Will ask whether we would have noted irritation to nasal passages/back of throat if we were dealing with allergies causing discomfort as hers looked very healthy.

Insurance is completely maxed out so will be out of pocket for any treatment. Will be considering options very carefully.

 

[SadKen]

I’m the last to be a supplement pusher, nor would I go against any advice from vets etc. but something struck me about the way your mare head tosses, I’d seen it before when I was trying to resolve what we thought was a nerve problem causing my previous horse to trigger her panniculus reflex constantly.

it was this video I’d seen on the link below. Maybe - maybe worth a try to email calm healthy horses and see if you could give that a whirl? The only reason I mention it is because of the similarity, what I know about clover particularly now, snd most importantly it’s far far cheaper to give a go than serious vet stuff!

just a thought, feel free to totally ignore!

https://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/harry

 

[Breagha]

My mare was investigated for head shaking and she had a clean bill of health after been at the Dick vets in Edinburgh so they gave the diagnosis as trigeminal neuralgia but my mare has since sprouted a canine tooth that might have been the route cause but she hasn't been back in heavy enough work to figure it out yet. My mare only head shook when ridden as well.

Hopefully there is more positive news when you speak to the vet. Fingers crossed.

 

[Jinx94]

We're fairly confident that it isn't allergies, but will trial steroids to see if it makes a difference.

She's consistently uncomfortable but does not seem distressed, so after that I will turn her away and monitor her to see if anything changes. If she improves, I may well bring her back in to continue breaking her, if she worsens again we will rethink. If she stays consistent, I'll keep monitoring and if she deteriorates then it may well be end of the road.

Thank you @SadKen, will look into that asap.

The vet feels that our chances of success with PENS treatment is too low to justify the expense and potential heartache. She's fully in support of my current plan.

 

[SadKen]

Thank you @SadKen, will look into that asap.

honestly I’m so wary of being the turmeric ulcers supplements person when everything points elsewhere because I’ve been there, but a lot of this stuff rang true in my old mare

https://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/head-flicking

Hers was a significant metabolic problem which affected a different bit of her, but I read loads in general about nerve conductivity and this was something I found interesting and quite convincing in it’s explanation. If you email the company they give free tailored advice based on the problem you have.
I really wish you the best of luck, nerve related stuff is horrible.

 

[webble]

You have my upmost sympathy such a frustrating and tough diagnosis

 

[Greyskull]

What a beautiful mare. I hope she improves with time. Good luck.

 

[mavandkaz]

I’m the last to be a supplement pusher, nor would I go against any advice from vets etc. but something struck me about the way your mare head tosses, I’d seen it before when I was trying to resolve what we thought was a nerve problem causing my previous horse to trigger her panniculus reflex constantly.

it was this video I’d seen on the link below. Maybe - maybe worth a try to email calm healthy horses and see if you could give that a whirl? The only reason I mention it is because of the similarity, what I know about clover particularly now, snd most importantly it’s far far cheaper to give a go than serious vet stuff!

just a thought, feel free to totally ignore!

https://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/harry

This is how my headshaker presents, and I have had good success with a supplement (in my case from hack up).
However, I would say this is different to the OPs. Certainly worth a try, and diet does make a huge difference to some headshakers. I know when I was researching the advice was to remove completely from grass.
However, OPs seems to be better when living out, where as mine is better when being ridden and worse out in the field..

OP, it does look like yours is TMJ related rather then allergies.
What is she like of you apply pressure over her nose etc? My boy will snatch at his hay when his head shaking is bad, but actually likes pressure over his nose, and will bury his nose in the crook of my arm when I lead him. A nose net works well for him but more because he grabs hold of it in his lips and it distracts him.
I also looked into pens treatment but didn't persue it as his is manageable.

I wish you the best of luck in finding something that works for you