UPDATE on horse collapsing whilst being tacked up

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ribena73

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Ronan's been on the bute trial now for a week and so far has not gone down while being tacked up (and that is every day), which would suggest a pain reaction? Vet came out today and they've all had a look at the video at Bushy and Willesly and they don;t think it's narcolepsy as the going down looks deliberate (although that's not a unanimous conclusion apparently). He's staying on bute until Tuesday and then he's coming off to see what effect it had. In the meantime we are to tack him up and ride him as normal.

Both me and my sharer rode him this morning and he is actually not quite right being ridden- only on the left rein and when trotting on the correct diagonal. Change diagonal and he is actually fine. Strange thing is he's not noticeably "limping" as such, simply uneven and nodding- he even unbalances you to get you to trot on the wrong diagonal. Anyway have video'd this and will send this to vets also as I'm wondering if it is related.

With the end of the bute trial in sight the vet wants to investigate the problem further, possibly seeing if the articular factes are what is causing the pain as they did show up as hotspots on the bone scan. But before that I am going to get a saddler to fit a proper saddle for him and after that I will get a physio to have look at him. I have already got the aeroborn waffle girth and a sheepskin sleeve which he seemed happy with actually.

So, still nothing conclusive but we feel that because he's not done this whilst on the bute (and before the bute he was doing it consistently), it may be a pain thing. Also he now tends to back away from the sight of the saddle which he's not done before so I'm wondering if he is associating it with pain?

Will keep up updated when the bute trial ends.......
 
God, won't you kick yourself if it's all down to a badly fitting saddle.......
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God, won't you kick yourself if it's all down to a badly fitting saddle.......
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yes, but then they did say it was fine initally, especially as it was a new thing that he was doing! Plus I think the fact that one vet thought he was "neurological" suggested that it was something other than that- although the other vet now doesn't see that.... Am now open to any suggestions though before we start going down injecting the facet joints

We shall see- just wish insurance would cover the saddle
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As soon as P started moving about when I went to pop the saddle on I got the saddle fitter out. She had also started to walk off as I mounted.

Actually, I say as soon as....the actual fitter to my particular make of saddle let me down a few times so in the end I just sacked the saddle, got a different saddler out and bought a new saddle. I just wasn't prepared to wait any longer to get the saddle altered when it was clear my mare wasn't happy with it's fit.

That said, I'm not sure what to make of the trotting issue. Surely 2 bute a day should help to mask any slight pain....but I guess discomfort from pinching saddles etc would still be felt.

Does the horse trot like this on the lunge, or only under saddle?
 
I thought 2 bute a day would mask the pain too- but like you i guess saddle pinching might still be felt (bit like uncomfortable shoes I suppose?)

He only trots like this under saddle..... he's fine on the lunge
 
The 'clues' from what you have said, all point to saddle issues and I speak as one who had a similar problem with my horse. Mine didn't collapse like yours, but 'humped' his back after being saddled, as if trying to throw the saddle off. As the saddle had just been fitted, I followed advice and ignored the behaviour - to my shame - as a few weeks later I did get the saddler back and she told me that the tree had broken and was digging into his back. Poor lad. He had been 'fine' being mounted and ridden, and must have been in such pain
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So I really suggest you get your saddle and its fitting thoroughly checked by a competent saddler and if it is a saddle problem, you might need to do what I did and get some physio to sort out the back pain it caused.
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I have seen the dramatic effects of a badly fitting saddle, TBH i would have had this sorted out first!

My horse was full height rearing under saddle (not in his nature) and even when being handled on the ground and groomed he got quite agressive. The vets wanted to do the bute trial, but i had saddle done (had been done by a cr*p saddler initially), and some physio and within a couple of weeks he was back to normal as we had caught it before there was permanent damage.

The vets wanted to do scintography, ultrasounds and xrays but luckily i waited and he came right.
 
I would get the saddle checked first to,

what type of breed, hight ect is he as some breeds to change alot from summer to winterso a saddle that you had fitted in winter might not fit once they got a grass belly in summer.


Mine use to change had 2 saddles for him winter and summer
 
My horse suffered with a bad back when I bought her. I ended up having three months of treatment and then when she was ok to start work ended up sending her to be re broken due to her still thinking that the saddle was going to cause pain when I got on. Even though the bute has masked the pain horses don't think like us they still think it is going to hurt.

The first sign that there is a problem with saddle/back get it checked other wise it can cause alot of problems.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ronan's been on the bute trial now for a week and so far has not gone down while being tacked up (and that is every day), which would suggest a pain reaction? Vet came out today and they've all had a look at the video at Bushy and Willesly and they don;t think it's narcolepsy as the going down looks deliberate (although that's not a unanimous conclusion apparently). He's staying on bute until Tuesday and then he's coming off to see what effect it had. In the meantime we are to tack him up and ride him as normal.

Both me and my sharer rode him this morning and he is actually not quite right being ridden- only on the left rein and when trotting on the correct diagonal. Change diagonal and he is actually fine. Strange thing is he's not noticeably "limping" as such, simply uneven and nodding- he even unbalances you to get you to trot on the wrong diagonal. Anyway have video'd this and will send this to vets also as I'm wondering if it is related.

With the end of the bute trial in sight the vet wants to investigate the problem further, possibly seeing if the articular factes are what is causing the pain as they did show up as hotspots on the bone scan. But before that I am going to get a saddler to fit a proper saddle for him and after that I will get a physio to have look at him. I have already got the aeroborn waffle girth and a sheepskin sleeve which he seemed happy with actually.

So, still nothing conclusive but we feel that because he's not done this whilst on the bute (and before the bute he was doing it consistently), it may be a pain thing. Also he now tends to back away from the sight of the saddle which he's not done before so I'm wondering if he is associating it with pain?

Will keep up updated when the bute trial ends.......

[/ QUOTE ] am i right to say your riding your horse with a suspected bad back
me for one would not ride till i get problem solved
 
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am i right to say your riding your horse with a suspected bad back
me for one would not ride till i get problem solved

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Yes I am riding a horse with a suspected bad back following the advice of my vet. Vet wants to eliminate all possibilities which means carrying on as normal I guess.....

Also wanted to add that the reasons for the *possible* bad back are not known and up until today he was fine when ridden. I certainly wouldn't be riding him if the vet didn't think I should be
 
i think and not blaming u if vet has told you, but to me this would make things worse and even more of a big bill for you
have you had a back person out??
 
i knew a hunter years ago who could only be ridden in trot on 1 diagonal, he would throw you back onto his preferred diagonal if you tried changing to the other. very long term back issues with him, plus big heavy crooked rubbish rider.
i would definitely try a totally different saddle on him, whatever the saddler says, i think i said this last time...
very best of luck. glad to hear he is improving with bute anyway.
 
We don't know what the problem is, so it's all guess work at the moment- initially it was thought to be neurological, now possible articular facet problems but I think all we are doing at the moment is trial and error and changing one thing at a time. This all started because he was going down when being girthed and we don;t know what is causing it. By being on the bute it is eliminating pain from the area but of course we don't know where the pain is coming from. Hence the saddle re-fitting and then the physio to see if it's anything obvious with his back.

In the meantime he is to be treated as we have done so we're not introducing too many variables. I guess, as some have suggested, if he learns that by going down he might not get ridden then it may be behavioural, so by carrying on and getting on him for a short period (and it is only short periods) he is not going to associated going down with getting out of work....
 
The OP must keep the horse in work I'm afraid otherwise by "resting" it, it may allow some healing process to occur, which could mean that they wouldn't find the true cause of the problem - It's really cruel but sadly this is how things are.
Kate x
 
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Owners' and vets' lives would be so much easier if horses could just point and say "it hurts there, no left a bit, up a bit etc).

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And a hell of a lot cheaper too
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Where's Dr Doolittle when you need him
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I had three Master Saddlers out to Tiggy to check her saddle. They all said it fitted, but Tiggy kept turning her bum on me as soon as she saw it. I got another saddler, got a new saddle and Tigs stopped turning away
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Hope you find the cause hun. I had to ride Tigs through pain, and then Dizzy - I was in tears so often
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Hugs.
 
Is he sensible enough for you to ride him bareback?
If so I'd give that a go to see if that makes any difference- you are still working him so that shouldn't affect anything else, although check with your vet if you are worried. If not I would def ditto Kerilli and borrow someone else's saddle for a session or 2.
 
Poor you and poor horse, it is horrible when you know your horse is in pain but you don't know why.

I used a fantastic Mctimoney chiro to sort my lad out in conjunction with my saddle fitter and they worked very well together to sort out the problem.

I'm afraid usually the vet is my last resort!
 
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Poor you and poor horse, it is horrible when you know your horse is in pain but you don't know why.

I used a fantastic Mctimoney chiro to sort my lad out in conjunction with my saddle fitter and they worked very well together to sort out the problem.

I'm afraid usually the vet is my last resort!

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What about bareback?

That would really pinpoint the saddle as the culprit if he doesn't do it bareback.
 
How exactly does he go down??

I used to ride a horse - he was fit and healthy, quite a hgh level ex-eventer. But if you nipped him with the girth he would freak out and often just go down. He was a tad temperamental tho and quite a character.

It used to scare me when he did it, I was in tears the first time it happened.
 
Thanks for all your replies, I spoke to a saddler yesterday who will see him hopefully in the next couple of weeks (Royal Welsh show next week so can't expect any horsey person to be around then)
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In the meantime my YO has a really soft synthetic saddle that I can try so will try that, and may also make enquiries into borrowing other saddles including treeless. As for bareback, hmmm, not too sure as he sometimes is sensible and sometimes isn't
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, plus he is very bony across the top and I'm not sure my post childbirth scarring would cope with that
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Wishfulthinker- there is a video of him going down on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Um_cIupDg
 
I hadnt seen the vid until now....that looks almost like a bizarre habit. If you put the saddle on and walk him whilst someone girths up does he still do it?
 
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Are you going to Brecon to see Graham??

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Actually..... *bows head with shame after not taking advice from HHO* ......
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am going to try Huw Thomas as he was recommended by some people on the yard and also he comes to you, which will help because it will mean Ronan can behave as he does in his normal environment, which is also important at the moment as he didn't fall down at the vets environment, and he can be a bit silly when in a new place so a ridden test of a new saddle might not be indicative of his normal movement.

If i have no joy with him then Graham will be my next step.
 
Hi

I did e mail you. Your horse has nerve and muscle damage. Just a change of saddle won't help. He needs to see a osteopath.

Heather
 
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