Update on horse "in pain" bone scan results - help!!

[stilltrying]

Afternoon all....so the very sad little horse went to have his bonescan last week.

He was scanned over his neck, back, pelvis and hind legs. The bonescan showed a mild uptake on the wither area vertebrae t11-t12. Everything else was fine. Vet is unsure of course of action and is seeking advice from Newmarket.

For those that haven't read the previous threads, the horse is showing extreme reactions to being touched / rugged, and tack is out of the question. He hasn't been ridden for 4 months and has become aggressive and badly bitten his owner on a couple of occasions. He doesn't want to be touched at all but particularly in his wither or around his girth area - his muscles go into spasm if you touch his sides. Vet feels this is where he is holding himself and bracing against the wither pain. If you do touch him, he will teeth grind / cry out / kick.

This is not the result we were hoping for - just because once again it is inconclusive and we dont seem to be any closer to resolving his pain issues. He looks sad, is under weight, head shakes all the time and totters about like everything hurts.

He is a 5yo 17h 7/8ths TB.

I guess I am clutching at straws, but has anyone had similar problems? My friend (his owner) has got the name of someone in Newmarket who specializes in resolving problems such as these, but his insurance must be nearing its max and I'm not sure how much money there is left to be thrown at this. : (

Just to add: He was diagnosed before xmas with grade 2 ulcers, but he was re-scoped for these after having gastroguard and they appeared to have gone. He is still on a supplement for hind gut ulcers. He has not been managed in a way that would leave him susceptible to ulcers and the general feeling is that they were caused by his other pain issues.

 

[Bedlam]

Afternoon all....so the very sad little horse went to have his bonescan last week.

He was scanned over his neck, back, pelvis and hind legs. The bonescan showed a mild uptake on the wither area vertebrae t11-t12. Everything else was fine. Vet is unsure of course of action and is seeking advice from Newmarket.

For those that haven't read the previous threads, the horse is showing extreme reactions to being touched / rugged, and tack is out of the question. He hasn't been ridden for 4 months and has become aggressive and badly bitten his owner on a couple of occasions. He doesn't want to be touched at all but particularly in his wither or around his girth area - his muscles go into spasm if you touch his sides. Vet feels this is where he is holding himself and bracing against the wither pain. If you do touch him, he will teeth grind / cry out / kick.

This is not the result we were hoping for - just because once again it is inconclusive and we dont seem to be any closer to resolving his pain issues. He looks sad, is under weight, head shakes all the time and totters about like everything hurts.

He is a 5yo 17h 7/8ths TB.

I guess I am clutching at straws, but has anyone had similar problems? My friend (his owner) has got the name of someone in Newmarket who specializes in resolving problems such as these, but his insurance must be nearing its max and I'm not sure how much money there is left to be thrown at this. : (

Just to add: He was diagnosed before xmas with grade 2 ulcers, but he was re-scoped for these after having gastroguard and they appeared to have gone. He is still on a supplement for hind gut ulcers. He has not been managed in a way that would leave him susceptible to ulcers and the general feeling is that they were caused by his other pain issues.

An Irish showjumper trainer once told me that his brother was a knackerman, and every horse that he collected that had been destroyed as unridable or uncurable seemed to have broken ribs, or ribs that had been broken and mended badly. Now I know that he was probably over exaggerating when he said every single horse with undiagnosed issues was found to have rib fractures, but it would make sense that if a horse had painful ribs it would hold itself very differently and cause issues elsewhere. It would also dislike being touched, rugged, groomed or ridden - and I don't hear of many vets x-raying ribcages......?

 

[dianchi]

Sorry to hear this, my friend had a similar sounding issue, sadly he was PTS in the end, and the autopsy showed all manner of odd things.

It was suspected he had a rotational fall as a youngster and had done damage that was just never going to fix

I guess they have x-rayed the area?

 

[stilltrying]

Thanks for the replies....

Bedlam - I did wonder if he had been kicked in the ribs by one of the others. I dont think an x-ray wouldn't work in that area - too wide! Hence the bonescan. But I am not sure how far down his body they scanned....

dianchi - I have a horrible feeling this is the way things will go, but it will be tragic if he is PTS without really knowing why. He had an x-ray of his spine prior to the bonescan which showed a couple of spinous processes closer than others but not touching and as far as I know vet wasn't concerned.

 

[dianchi]

I would perhaps look at nerve blocking the area that they identified with the scan.

I was trying to find the article my friend wrote about her horse (she is a equine osteo) but am struggling.....

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I expect that his feed has been checked but just in case I wouldn't feed him on anything but hay/grass/grassnuts/grasschaff for a few eeks to see if there is any improvement. Some feeds can inflame the nerve endings, which leads the horse to hold himself awkwardly and develop odd musculature which adds to the pain.

 

[stilltrying]

I expect that his feed has been checked but just in case I wouldn't feed him on anything but hay/grass/grassnuts/grasschaff for a few eeks to see if there is any improvement. Some feeds can inflame the nerve endings, which leads the horse to hold himself awkwardly and develop odd musculature which adds to the pain.

That is interesting...he is barefoot, so is fed a low sugar / high fibre diet, BUT....he does also get complex mix of supplements.

 

[cptrayes]

Has the horse been treated at any time with big doses of antibiotics? It is a known side effect on humans with compromised immune systems that the skin becomes unbearable to have touched after big doses of trimethoprim, and I have heard of one case in a horse treated with it for septicaemia. It's rare, but your horse sounds like a rare case.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

That is interesting...he is barefoot, so is fed a low sugar / high fibre diet, BUT....he does also get complex mix of supplements.

Having had one horse pts where supplements were involved (long story) and several other unfortunate experiences with horses and supplements, I am now extremely careful to only give single ingredient supplements and monitor the horse's reaction to each one carefully when it is introduced. Some of the carriers/fillers can cause pro blems even if the active ingredient is fine. I also had a WelshDxTB mare whose food made her very uncomfortable and extremely difficult to handle, when we realised what was happening and sorted her diet out, she was like a different horse. She had always been very touchy in the girth area and withers.

 

[Silverfire]

Has the horse been treated at any time with big doses of antibiotics? It is a known side effect on humans with compromised immune systems that the skin becomes unbearable to have touched after big doses of trimethoprim, and I have heard of one case in a horse treated with it for septicaemia. It's rare, but your horse sounds like a rare case.

It can happen with doxycycline too, my horse had seven months of it last year and hated being touched after she finished it especially on her neck. A few days of metacam sorted her out.
She currently has some oedema on her sides from 2 weeks doxycycline and 4 weeks metacam and hates me touching under her belly, on her sides or by girth mostly on her right side, threatning to kick, tail swishing and biting. Today she says it hurts if i look at it. She didn't do it when vet looked at her Friday though!

Sorry about your friends horse OP.

 

[stilltrying]

Has the horse been treated at any time with big doses of antibiotics? It is a known side effect on humans with compromised immune systems that the skin becomes unbearable to have touched after big doses of trimethoprim, and I have heard of one case in a horse treated with it for septicaemia. It's rare, but your horse sounds like a rare case.

I know he had really nasty infection from a kick as a youngster which got infected and had to have antibiotics injected - but that was a 3yo. As far as I know he hasn't had anything like that recently, and that would have been 2 years ago. Could it cause long term damage like that?

 

[stilltrying]

Having had one horse pts where supplements were involved (long story) and several other unfortunate experiences with horses and supplements, I am now extremely careful to only give single ingredient supplements and monitor the horse's reaction to each one carefully when it is introduced. Some of the carriers/fillers can cause pro blems even if the active ingredient is fine. I also had a WelshDxTB mare whose food made her very uncomfortable and extremely difficult to handle, when we realised what was happening and sorted her diet out, she was like a different horse. She had always been very touchy in the girth area and withers.

Thanks I'll refer that back. Got nothing to lose by dropping the sups to see what happens.

 

[cptrayes]

I know he had really nasty infection from a kick as a youngster which got infected and had to have antibiotics injected - but that was a 3yo. As far as I know he hasn't had anything like that recently, and that would have been 2 years ago. Could it cause long term damage like that?

The case that I know of took a whole year to be happy to have his skin touched, but it doesn't sound likely that this is your horse's problem after this length of time.

I hope you find an answer soon.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thanks I'll refer that back. Got nothing to lose by dropping the sups to see what happens.

Good luck, let us know what happens.

The anti-biotics thing rings a bell with me too. I have a number of food intolerances and the allergy doctor who treated me asked if I had had prolonged anti-b treatment at any time in my life. I had - almost 30 yrs before. One of my symptoms was very tender skin. I couldn't bear to use a shower because of the sensation of the water dripping on my skin.

 

[shergar]

Google ULCERS IN HORSES ,when you get that page look at ULCER DIAGNOSIS BY MARK DE PAOLO,sorry I am not sure how to do a link,you will see how some horses are sore where the withers join the back,and he also mentions how a horse can have a rib out of line ,I have also read that horse with ulcers do not like to be touched they become very sensitive,,and some ulcers are beyond what can be seen by the scope.

 

[toomanyhorses26]

has the horse had its back ligaments scanned - my mare showed extreme signs of pain when being groomed,tack up etc (think do the girth up, run out the stable and lock both doors while she performed a rodeo act) she had a bone scan which showed some mild uptakes in her hocks,spinous processes that sit just under the back of the saddle and down onto the top of one rib. She had her back ultrasound which came back with severe damage to the supraspinious ligament

 

[shergar]

Just down the page from your post is a post RE ULCER QUESTION SUPPLEMENT /DRUGS NATURAL REMEDIES by Tullahjay 3 pages worth a read ,

 

[Queenbee]

Thanks I'll refer that back. Got nothing to lose by dropping the sups to see what happens.

Personally, I'd drop the entire feed and go with just a hay/grass diet for a week, he may be on a hi fibre diet, but that fibre could contain something he is reacting too, for example it could have alfalfa in it, this can cause reaction in many horses, it could be coated in molasses or soya oil, again, both cause reactions in some horses. It sounds like a slim chance it's feed related but you never know. I personally think it's probably muscular or bones, it could well be that even though these issues that have shown up in the bones aren't the actual root of the pain, that the muscles have formed around this area in a way that causes severe pain and tension. I personally would agree with a nerve block, and then consider some form of hydrotherapy, physio or massage treatments, and acupuncture to see if working on the muscles addresses the issue.

 

[OwnedbyJoe]

Have they considered fibromyalgia? More common than we realise on horses after antibiotic treatment, viral infections, chronic stress...Have a look here:
http://www.vetcontact.com/en/art.php?a=694
Acupuncture works very well.

 

[Booboos]

I think the horse needs referral to a specialist centre with a good neurologist. Fibromyalgia was my thought as well or something else neurological.

 

[stilltrying]

Thanks everyone for posting, really helpful and i've referred back to my mate, who says thank you very much : )

Will keep you all posted.

 

[TarrSteps]

Have they considered fibromyalgia? More common than we realise on horses after antibiotic treatment, viral infections, chronic stress...Have a look here:
http://www.vetcontact.com/en/art.php?a=694
Acupuncture works very well.

Just as a note, recent human work on Fibromyalgia has yielded some different ideas. http://www.healthline.com/health-news/aging-scientists-find-physical-cause-of-fibromyalgia-062113

 

[Fat_Pony]

I had a horse with the same symptoms. No time for detailed reply at the mo, but pm me and I'll tell his story. Happy ending, don't worry