Update on horse "in pain" (ulcers)

stilltrying

stilltrying

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Thanks for those that replied last year ref: my friends horse who was displaying classic signs of ulcers. Just thought I’d update for anyone that is interested. He was diagnosed with grade 2 ulcers, given gastroguard and something to treat the hindgut (not sure what sorry). Re-scoped and ulcers looked to have gone, however behaviour has got worse. Extremely unhappy to wear a rug (tack is out of the question!) and if you touch his girth area his muscles all along his sides twitch and he will squeal / lash out.

Vet was called to re-examine. I wasn’t there but apparently he was throwing himself all over the place and squealing during the examination. Vet has found him to be extremely sore in his wither area, and also girth area. Vet thinks girth area as a result of holding himself due to wither pain. He was sent for a back x-ray which proved inconclusive. However he managed to double barrel the wall during the x-ray whilst heavily sedated when the x-ray plate touched his back. Vet is now referring for a bonescan.

Poor sod, he generally looks a bit sad and almost staggers out of his box in the mornings. I had wondered if the ulcers were the not the problem, but a result of another problem, and it is beginning to look that way. I just hope the vets can find what on earth is going on. : (
 
This sounds like the classic case of the ulcers being a symptom of something else seriously wrong. I had the same with my WB - he too had grade 2 ulcers which are in reality mild, but his aggressive behaviour pointed to serious pain. We treated the ulcers and then he was bonescanned and also nerve blocked and eventually diagnosed with chronic sacro illiac dysfunction. I have had him treated and rehabbed and he is now a different sweet horse. Interestingly my WB likes kicking out behind - to presumably release ligaments/tension.
Sounds like yoiur friend's horse has some serious wither/neck pain, poor lad.
 
Thanks YasandCrystal - good news that yours came through.

Also forgot to add, he has now started head shaking in the last week or so too.
 
As previous reply - sounds like the ulcers are not the real issue here.
Any chance you could get a physio to assess him. It would be a fresh pair of eyes if you were to use a physio.

He may have kissing spine or some other problem with his spine. If he is staggering out of his box in the mornings it may be that he has arthritis somewhere.

A physio will tell you if he has been overcompensating in other areas due to pain somewhere specific.
 
stilltrying said:
Thanks YasandCrystal - good news that yours came through.

Also forgot to add, he has now started head shaking in the last week or so too.
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Poor chap that too is probably a pain response. Mine used to move his head violently around in circles and walk to and fro. Keep us updated on his diagnosis and progress please.
 
applecart14 said:
As previous reply - sounds like the ulcers are not the real issue here.
Any chance you could get a physio to assess him. It would be a fresh pair of eyes if you were to use a physio.

He may have kissing spine or some other problem with his spine. If he is staggering out of his box in the mornings it may be that he has arthritis somewhere.

A physio will tell you if he has been overcompensating in other areas due to pain somewhere specific.
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Well, a physio has seen him a couple of times since he started displaying these issues and it didn't ring any alarm bells with her. Dont really want to say any more than that(!). To me he just looks wrong, can't think of a better word than that.

Vet mentioned kissing spine, and x-ray has showed 2 areas that are close enough to be mentioned as close, but vet doesn't feel these are likely to be the issue.
 
I think they are doing the right thing re the vet examination.

I will just recount a recent experience though. I work with a horse who has had a series of physical issues arising initially from injuries and some shoeing concerns. His behaviour, especially under saddle, had become dangerously non-compliant. He was fully worked up and treated for ulcers (range of scores), had his shoeing changed, came home and went on a program, with slow but significant improvement in all areas. Over Xmas he had more time off than ideal and the owner was not able to keep up with his program. Starting back after three weeks he was just about as bad as he'd ever been! Off to the vet again, scoped absolutely clean and passed a lameness work up, no problem. Back home, back on the program, with the feeling that either he didn't have much of a problem or, if he did, we couldn't find it so might as well proceed and see what happened.

It took about a week and some not very nice days and suddenly, the nice horse is back. He's not quite where he was pre holiday but progress has been much, much quicker this time.

Another horse I know also came off the wagon over Xmas, scoped absolutely clean. He showed mild discomfort in an area which has given him trouble before so vet proscribed bute and the work that got him sound in the first place. Now off the bute and doing well. Again, there were some tough days but the process that took months initially took days this time.

Do I think that "working through it" is always the way? No. I wouldn't even say either horse is "sound" in the most literal way. BUT this is a pattern I've seen many, many times. Horses that are "fragile" often need very careful management and NOT doing it, even though we perceive it as "rest" and should be beneficial, makes the wheels come off.

Again, I am NOT saying this is the case with the horse at hand. But it is something to keep in mind in this endless discussion of the link between soundness and behaviour.
 
TarrSteps - that is turning it completely on its head, but interesting nonetheless!

We all do things a bit differently and I think if he were mine, I'd have probably pushed a bit more initially to see if I could get more of a reaction, as in get the problem (whatever it may be) to show itself?

His owner did wonder, prior to latest vet exam, whether some of the issues were in his head. But after his lashing out under sedation I think we can assume it is all very real.

I should also have added - he had a small sarcoid which was being treated last month - the only time I noticed him perk up was when he was on bute for the sarcoid treatment. He just seemed a bit more smiley.
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that sort of behaviour is all in a horse's head. I have no doubt the two horses I described are in pain/discomfort when they react as they do and both have had ulcers in addition to other physical problems which are not 'cured' as in the clock has been reset. I just think it's interesting both showed classic ulcer symptoms but they do not, categorically, have ulcers and their behaviour has improved without any of the standard suggestions people would make. No real point, just a tale from the front. :)
 
TarrSteps said:
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that sort of behaviour is all in a horse's head. I have no doubt the two horses I described are in pain/discomfort when they react as they do and both have had ulcers in addition to other physical problems which are not 'cured' as in the clock has been reset. I just think it's interesting both showed classic ulcer symptoms but they do not, categorically, have ulcers and their behaviour has improved without any of the standard suggestions people would make. No real point, just a tale from the front. :)
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Tales are good though! I'm not seeking a diagnosis on here, hoping we'll get that from the vets! Just interesting sharing experiences. : )
 
Hi Just to add my KS ned was successfully operated on 8yrs ago - the biggest problem I had in rehabbing him was definitely his head not his body. He was an absolute killer on the lunge and pessoa but was very accepting of long reining and the different body language when done properly. I had a week of legs in the air and then he settled and it completely resolved our ability to move forwards - needless to say he is now a poppet on lunge, pessoa, ridden et al! Sadly we have the vet coming back this week after 8 yrs because it looks as though he may have a little wear and tear on his pelvis which is affecting his abiity to move his back end as well as he usually does. We have only discovered this after extensive visits from my equine chiro and body worker both of whom are fab and it has finally allowed us to uncover what we think is the underlying problem after much searching. I am kent based too, let me know if you would like their numbers, I have used them for years and they are absolutely superb! I hope the horse gets his problem sorted out, pain even is it is minor can have a terrible effect on a normally happy horse.
 
BethH said:
Hi Just to add my KS ned was successfully operated on 8yrs ago - the biggest problem I had in rehabbing him was definitely his head not his body. He was an absolute killer on the lunge and pessoa but was very accepting of long reining and the different body language when done properly. I had a week of legs in the air and then he settled and it completely resolved our ability to move forwards - needless to say he is now a poppet on lunge, pessoa, ridden et al! Sadly we have the vet coming back this week after 8 yrs because it looks as though he may have a little wear and tear on his pelvis which is affecting his abiity to move his back end as well as he usually does. We have only discovered this after extensive visits from my equine chiro and body worker both of whom are fab and it has finally allowed us to uncover what we think is the underlying problem after much searching. I am kent based too, let me know if you would like their numbers, I have used them for years and they are absolutely superb! I hope the horse gets his problem sorted out, pain even is it is minor can have a terrible effect on a normally happy horse.
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Thanks BethH - if you could pm me with the number of the chiro that would be fab. I have a good physio, but the chiro we used previously (very successfully) is no longer working in the UK. That's a shame you are having to get the vet out, but then again 8 years of a happy horse post op is still pretty good. This chap is rising 6 - would be so good to get him right so he can be pain free and actually have a bit of fun. The only jollies he's ever been on are to the vets practice!

Bonescan hopefully happening in the next fortnight so will re-update as and when.
 
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