Update on naughty horse

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chestnutt

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Thanks for all your help on the previous thread.
2 days ago I lunged him before I got, then took him out for a hack. He lunged nicely, but as soon as I got he started when leaving the yard. We managed to meet 4 cars and a tractor in less than 5 minutes on an apparently quiet road. :mad:
He was getting really nasty but I managed to get him to go. I decided to go a different route, so he had a tantrum. I eventually managed to get him in the direction I wanted to go, but a bit too fast, he kept cantering etc. He started another tantrum at a junction, starting to spin rear and trying to run off home. I got fed up at that point and smacked him.
Anyways after that he behaved himself, and we met all sorts of spooky things.
After the hack I made him walk past the yard and have a graze in hand and chill out. I want him to enjoy hacking, not be a torture exercise.

So yesterday....
Tried a different approach. Changed him to a kk loose ring lozenge snaffle, even though he doesn't like a normal french link loose ring.
I checked the saddle with nothing on and it seems to fit fine, but when I checked it with a saddlecloth on the part where the strap was caused a weird bump that felt like it was pressing into him, so tried a different saddle cloth and a gel pad under saddle.
Weather is better too, so I got on him straight away and took him in the school.
Well.... he was perfect. Actually schooled really nicely, apart from leaning a bit on the bit, which he always used to do (but couldn't do as much in the other bit?), so I took him out for a hack. Again, amazingly perfect, ears pricked but not fixated onto things, just lopping back and forth, relaxed long neck etc. Took him for another good graze in hand afterwards because I think food is the way to his heart and made a huge fuss of him for being so good. :)

Now I don't know what was causing it, bit, saddlecloth, weather, naughtiness.
Also one of the horses he lives with, which normally hates everyone has decided that they are best friends and screams at him when every I take him out of site.
I will see how he is today, but I daren't change anything.
Saddlecloth wise, polypads just slip right off, but I don't want to use a saddlecloth with straps 'just in case', what about anky pads?
 
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Sorry, but horses don't DO naughty. Being naughty implies deliberately breaking the rules and they don't know what the rules are. There is ALWAYS a reason - pain, discomfort, confusion, inability to do waht you are asking (which includes leaving the safety of a known place to a big scary world) and if you can't find it, look harder, or be clearer or train better! The one thing that changed my methods with horses, and so my chance of success, was someone telling me "Start from the thought that a horse ALWAYS wants to do what we are asking of him if he can and he understands the question".
Sounds as though you have found the underlying reason for yours, but how many horses out there are being bullied and living with pain and discomfort because their riders don't take that point of view?
 
I have to say I disagree with above. Horses aren't naughty as such no but sometimes when they are growing up they don't know what is right and what is wrong, how do they unless they are trained that good behaviour is comfortable and bad is not comfortable. I certainly don't agree with smacking all the time, getting cross or losing ones rag but when you are dealing with a big, young, dominant horse they do need the occasional reminder who is boss in a firm fair, unemotional way...
I think you are doing fab OP. That is interesting about the saddlecloth and does make you think. He sounds like a nice horse if a bit immature and opinionated at times and it was probably a combination of the factors that made him happier.
Tbh I think you are doing a fab job! :)
 
Thanks dora- that pads looks nice, and is cheaper than anky!
JillA- Well what I was posting about was to find out what/why he is behaving this way. I suppose by naughtiness I meant undesirable behaviour. If I thought he was just being naughty, I wouldn't of booked a dentist, physio, lesson with pro and changed all his tack! :)
 
JillA said:
Sorry, but horses don't DO naughty. Being naughty implies deliberately breaking the rules and they don't know what the rules are. There is ALWAYS a reason - pain, discomfort, confusion, inability to do waht you are asking (which includes leaving the safety of a known place to a big scary world) and if you can't find it, look harder, or be clearer or train better! The one thing that changed my methods with horses, and so my chance of success, was someone telling me "Start from the thought that a horse ALWAYS wants to do what we are asking of him if he can and he understands the question".
Sounds as though you have found the underlying reason for yours, but how many horses out there are being bullied and living with pain and discomfort because their riders don't take that point of view?
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I have to slightly disagree JillA - Horses can be naughty hence why they get told off for overstepping the line in a herd situation.

Whilst I agree horses usually 'act up' when in pain or discomfort they can deliberately play up to get out of work or something they don't want to do such as leading to a field quietly. Some horses accept that they have to walk to the field then they get released, whereas others will bolt off knowing full well that the leader can't hold onto them. This is being naughty and it is not caused by pain, discomfort or misunderstanding. They know exactly what to do and how to get away with it.

I hope the saddlepad issue was the main cause of your horses' behaviour :)
 
Well I rode him tonight in his dressage saddle, but in the kk snaffle. He was perfect again, and very relaxed. We did a lot of stretchy trot, which is an improvement, as last time I rode in the school his neck was about 2 inches long, ears in face and tense.
I think it may be contact issues, how much poll action does a hanging cheek snaffle have?
Come to think of it, when I bought him I asked his rider what bit does he wear for xc, and he said a waterford, but not a gag or anything like that. Maybe he really really hates anything with a poll action?
I think his behaviour may be down to freshness and not being entirely comfortable.
Anyways he seems much happier, even on the ground :)
Physio, saddle fitter and dentist still booked over the next few weeks. Won't kill him to have a MOT!
 
Hanging cheek bits do not have poll action. Which is not to say they are to every horse's taste, but not for that reason.

But anyway. . .

Don't change your saddle pad. If he is happy in the one you used last with the gel pad, leave it!! When you've had other things checked then okay, start cleaning things - methodically!

Ditto the other things you've changed. Change one thing at a time, take note, adjust accordingly. It's fine to change a bunch of things if they need changing but you also need to learn about the horse and how he reacts to various influences, so you have that information for the future.

Keep riding him, or at least doing something with him, every day for the next while, to keep him in a routine. It's fine to want to be his friend but what you really are is his boss. You can be a really nice boss but you still have to be the one steering the ship, especially in these early stages.

Glad things are on the upswing. Hopefully your checks will turn up something easy and cheap and then it's onwards and upwards.
 
Firewell said:
I have to say I disagree with above. Horses aren't naughty as such no but sometimes when they are growing up they don't know what is right and what is wrong, :)
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Agree! My six year old has been a complete toad recently, just plain naughty! Put him out in the field for a few hours yesterday, first time he's been on grass for six months, (he gets turnout in gravel everyday for 12 hours a day) went for a lesson and he was a different horse!

Fields and sun = happy ponio!
 
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