Update, pup and house training

Fools Motto

Fools Motto

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Have sadly had a set back...
Rosie pup eats ANYTHING and everything! She has tried to eat a used dog poo bag which random person had left in the field - I had to smack her to leave it. May link it to a growth spurt, or maybe it is just her.
We have fruit trees in the garden, 3 apple trees, 1 pear tree, cherry tree and a plum tree. All full to bursting this year. You can guess what she does... eats the fallen fruit quicker than we can pick it up. I've been surprised she hasn't been drunk on the rotten bits! (or maybe she has, - springer madness does get sprung more so now than before!) Not only this, but she met a lovely labrador out in the fields, and they played like it was the only thing to do.... until the lab jumped into a pond, followed by mini madam - but it was hardly a pond, more of a cess-pit - black and putrid. It only went up to his tummy, but completely submerged Rosie, who was then black all over. She had to have the hose pipe, and the hair dryer.
Soooo, she's had a poorly tummy, a VERY poorly tummy. ((wish she would realise it was self inflicted?!)) Anyway, poorly pups, and house training do not mix... never knew something so small to make so much mess, all the time! Poor pup. On top of that, she started poo'ing (squirting!) blood, so has been rushed to the vets..
We've had a week of very disrupted sleep, trying to get her out within 2 hours of previous 'potty time', only she was coming back in, and doing it within 15 mins of us going back to bed! (camera set up proved it), so we've changed times, changed routine, and so far, it is not working. The floor was covered in poo last night, after 2 previous nights of 'getting it right'. Luckily the vets medicine to settle her tummy is working well, but she is eating more things now than ever - daughter left the foot stool by the table, and she was on that before she could be stopped - took and ate a letter, a kitchen towel cardboard roll and spilt a hot cup of tea over her - but she licked it up at 100 miles an hour! - which brings me to another thing, she is getting very obsessive about her food bowl and it is gone within 10 secs, - she doesn't breath, just gulps. Not sure if this is linked to her tummy, as it had to have been very empty, or growing quickly, or just her?
Whoever said house training springers was easy - you lie!! (tongue in cheek)... Rosie is obviously the exception to the rule... since tummy been settled, the back door open, been out a mere 10 mins earlier, she still goes where ever she wants without any warning - I've been watching her... not even sniffing before crouching, and at times she semi crouches while having a drink and goes! I realise we're not home all the time with her, I can't yet keep her crated for more than 2 hours (right or wrong, it doesn't sit right with me - yet,)

Have I made sense? I'm sure I sound like a complete failure - i sure feel it, but I'm really struggling to get remotely in the right direction with this. I've lost my temper with OH over this, it is getting more than frustrating now. HELP
 
If you are still struggling its time to get a trainer out - house training is not difficult if kept in a routine.
 
SusieT said:
If you are still struggling its time to get a trainer out - house training is not difficult if kept in a routine.
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Part of that I do agree with Susie, routine. BUT, as said that was blown out of the water with an upset tummy this past week, and as yet can't settle into a routine, as she pees and poos so randomly. If it is that easy, would you consider coming and helping?
I'd love to get a trainer out - how much does it cost to keep one for the week and over night? Wonder if I should pay them per hour, or only if they succeed?
I've never had a pup seemingly this 'can't be bothered, just do it here type'...
 
I fostered a dog which was not house trained and I can tell you there are no short cuts, he was about 2yrs old I think possibly older, been bred in kennels and used as a stud dog and never left the kennels. The rescue neutered him just before I fostered him so he was marking a lot, he was also incredible y nervous, if he went to cock his leg and I would say ahah he wud be terrified and run round the room, it was Cayla who suggested i kept a squeeky toy in my pocket so when he went to mark I could use the squeeky toy(he wasnt afraid of that) to distract him enough to put a lead on him and take him outside. He soon cottoned on to that and he was dry in the house quite quickly.

Pooing was a different matter, he could be lying in his bed after a good walk, get up to come into the kitchen and just stop and poo, no circling, he just went. I became an expert on his next bowel movement and if I couldnt supervise him he stayed in his crate, it took a long while for the penny to drop but we got there, it took a long time as well as socialisation because he couldnt be rehomed until he was clean and reliable in the house.

You have to be vigilent with your dog to stop her from eating random stuff, put a long line on her and dont take her into the garden until youve picked up all the windfalls or put a muzzle on her. It wont kill her but it may save her life, there are lots of wasps about atm on fallen fruit.

You took on this pup so its down to you, if you are not prepared to put the effort in anything you do will be a waste of time if you cant keep it up. Some dogs are easy some are not but you have to be consistent in your training.
 
Its really now or never for your pup.Id get her on a training course ( at this point,basic obedience)so she will start to listen to you and you have more control outside.it will help tire her out and you will bond with her.Did you read thistles inspiring post?...same breed...it shows you what you could have if you put in the time with your pup.Its still not too late,but for her sake,and yours,start now.
iN the meantime I'd have a long line on her in the fields as she will make a bee line for that pond..it's fun for her,but probably a source of infection ( giardia).
Stay outside with her to see she has done her poos and do nt bring her in till she's done...if she's empty she can't mess your floors..
You've had a set back with the illness,but don't give up and keep taking her outside and be sure she's emptying her bladder.
Re the apples..both my last two pups have shown an interest in eating our crab apples,so for the last three years I've gathered up all windfalls and even cut back the fruit bearing branches so they dontget a chance to drop fruit for the puppy. iVe also removed all my flowering plants( which are bee magnets) form the area of the garden the dogs use,as one got stung twice and that was enough for me .
 
You need to keep a very close eye on her. Eating things she shouldn't could end up fatal.
I've known a dog have a large part of its intestine removed due to eating a foreign body.
It's your responsibility to keep her from doing this, smacking her is not the answer. The house training really is a case of being vigilant and committed. There are no short cuts.
It does sound as if you need help with this puppy. A good trainer that uses positive reinforcement would help you.
 
Poor pup. What a nightmare for you too, I do feel sorry for you.
Build a kennel?
I wonder if she knows it is stressing you (as is understandable) so has sort of blanked the whole thing out, hence no warning and so on? I am no expert at all but it does seem odd for her not make any effort to be clean.
 
She sounds like a very confused pup. I think you need help. Her frantic eating and relieving herself without warning remind me of some fosters I have had. A set of rules (for the handler) and an appropriately predictable routine for the pup need to be put in place. One visit from a clued up trainer may be all it will take to put you both on the right track. Good luck and no more tummy upset vibes. I agree with putting her on a long line outdoors for her own safety and your sanity.
 
Well the upset tummy won't have helped matters, poor little might. As for eating anything and everything, I can only tell you that if we didn't want it chewed we didn't leave it lying around.

Would it also be worth looking at what and how much you're feeding?

It does remind me, though, why I never got a dog whilst I was working.
 
Sounds like you've been too slow. She's trying to poo, snaffle food and such, before you can catch her and tell her off. You need to get to the dog and either divert them with a better option or remind them it's not what you want, while they're still thinking about it.
The best way to do it is distract or correct the unwanted behavior just before it happens and reward when the dog does it right.
The worst is to let it happen and punish the dog, which generally only has a 3-5 second link between behaviour and consequence.
So things sound a bit backwards.
Easy mistake to make and we've all done it, but it's hard to override once the dog has learned that it's better to be sneaky.
Dogs also pick up on stress, anger, frustration etc, even when we think or pretend that we're not any of those things, which will make her more prone to avoiding detection and in the end, worse case scenario, not really wanting to be around you.
You need to engage her. Right now, running around gobbling fruit is way more rewarding than being with you....be more interesting and fun.
 
I feel really sorry for you. I've been there with foster dogs, one in particular I swore was the devil incarnate! No point in beaten yourself up over it. It's not your fault.
We had a behaviourist come in who taught us lots of things.
A plastic bottle filled with rice or a squeaky toy to distract immediately.
A long line so you can always control them
A house line so they can be grabbed in a hurry.
Pro chem. it's a cleaner used in care homes. Scrub with bio powder and then with prochem.
Access to only one area which is as close to outside door as possible. The dog we had used to destroy every puppy pad & pieces of newspaper. However she went on a bit of old carpet which we moved gradually.
Feed, it's hugely important. Mine are all raw fed now.
Pineapple can help to stop them eating stuff they shouldn't.
Slippery Elm for when they eat stuff they shouldn't.
Brewers yeast and salmon oil to aid digestion and help their tummies.
There was loads more, pm if you need anything xx
 
ester said:
Surely it is different if you have a foster dog with an unknown history than a young pup though?
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That particular foster was app 3-4 months old so quite young. The behaviourist was fab and I've successfully used what she taught me on other dogs. I've also had utter failures using the same techniques. When you're desperate it's worth a try
 
A lot of this sounds like usual puppy issues to me, she is still very young?! And of course being poorly won't have helped.

Our springer puppy is a little older than Rosie. She is crated at night, I WFH most days so am around her in the day (we have an outdoor kennel and large fenced off run area for them which we use a couple of times a week when both at work). I wouldn't say I trust her 100% but she hasn't had an accident in the house for a good while now.

With the eating stuff issue - I make sure puppy has something she is allowed to chew on at all times - so we've not had any chewing incidents! Do you give her kongs/toys/chews/bones?
The mucky pond thing is something our cocker would do, he loves to dive in to swamp type puddles when our backs are turned!

I feel like maybe you're expecting a bit much of her to be perfectly well behaved at this stage :)
 
SusieT said:
If you are still struggling its time to get a trainer out - house training is not difficult if kept in a routine.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^

A trainer would be training YOU on how to train your pup.

Please, please refrain from smacking the pup..for whatever reason...I can only see this making this worse for both the pup and you.
 
When our youngest Spinone was a pup she was a nightmare to house train and the only pup we have had thar was born in a house, and the pups were allowed go anywhere when we went to see them, the rest have all been farm breed. You could spend the best part of an hour outside with her and she would pee as soon as she got back in the house, she would also go on a tarp in the garden, I was working at the time and the other half worked shifts. I can honestly say she was three years old before totally clean, she also would just go with no signal what so ever. We didn't get another pup until we were both at home. Not any help really other than she did get there in the end, but never really liked to pee in the garden of that house, we have moved this year and she will happerly pee in our new garden. A trainer might help. New pup has a Crete and pen which I find helps in that she is not shut in a small create overnight as she likes to sleep on the floor when she gets warm but does not have free run of the house.
 
I do feel sorry for you OP. It's bad enough when a house-trained dog as an upset tummy, but with a pup it must be a nightmare. As said above, make sure you stay with her until she goes outside. As she starts to wee/poo, coo softly (so she knows she's right) and use the phrase "get busy" or "wee wee" or whatever you want as she'll eventually associate that phrase with doing her business and you'll be able to open the back door, tell her to get busy/whatever and she'll go on command. If she's coming back inside and going relatively quickly, it means she hasn't fully emptied her bladder/bowel. Outside is super interesting! There are loads of smells and things to eat and you out there with her so she may be getting too distracted to toilet. Is there a way for you to block her access to the trees? Maybe split the garden so the fruit trees are in one part and she's only allowed in another? It'll stop her getting to the fruit and making herself sick.

In terms of eating, it's not good for her to bolt down the food as quickly as possible. Make sure you're feeding her 3-4x per day. Some options are to get her a Kong Wobbler which they have to push about for it to dispense the food which will slow her down. Or there are food dishes that have a ball or something inside so she'll have to push it around to get all of the food around/under it. That'll also slow her down. Another option is to get a regular Kong and stuff it with her dinner and then put something like peanut butter/pate/wet food/etc. over the top so it takes longer for her to eat.
 
You ring your local trainer and ask for their rates - and yes you pay by the hour , as the success is down the family using the trainers tools. Forum advice is not working so time to get into the real world help.
 
It's highly unlikely but given pup has had a dickie tum and you appear to be struggling so much I would get vet to check there is no urinary tract infection.
 
I think that you need to take a deep breath, stop panicking, understand that the sickness will have put you back a few steps and that pup is probably reacting badly to the resulting stress and frustration that you are feeling (and perhaps the discord between you an the OH). I wouldn't personally be calling in a trainer for such a young pup that just has house training issues.

Tell yourself that you can do it - keep the routine going, avoid places where the pup can eat rotting fruit etc, make sure items that will be bad for her are tidied away. Just keep going, praising her like mad when she goes outside, cleaning up any mistakes really well and not making the pup feel bad about them (i.e ignore), you WILL get there in the end!

I've never known a dog who couldn't learn this - some take a little longer than others. Hang in there;-)
 
OP can you not either crate her or limit her movement at night to either encourage cleanliness or at least minimise the area you need to clean up.

It also sounds like the family need a few ground rules re leaving things out that she can get to otherwise it is rather unfairly setting things up to fail.

If you can't fence off where the fallen fruit is then keep her on a long line in the garden, the same when walking, there shouldn't be any need to smack her. - Better for her to come to something else more exciting as an option.
 
Just like to say thanks for all advice and feed back. Rosie is very good in all other ways. We've been praised by many people we've met at how well she walks on the lead and has such good recall when off. She has toys and chews, kongs and just got one of those slow feeder dog bowls. Not sure it will help her brain, as she is a bit frantic to get all the food at 100 mph, but very happy it will help her insides to slow down!
She is very obedient at commands, will drop things most of the time. It was a shame about the poo bag, she found it in the long grass and for whatever reason wouldn't let it go! I felt I~ had to tap her on her nose, or it would have turned into a tug of war. It is the only thing she hasn't dropped when asked! As for the fruit, we do our best to be with her at all times outside, but there are situations when we can't. We pick up all the fallers every day, and to be honest, lately there has been no teeth/chewed bits on the fruit was have been slow about! (apart from the pear that came inside an hour ago!)
The only other thing, but I don't know if she is doing what she could be doing... sniffing/eating other dog poo... she is too quick, even under my nose... I can't tell if she is sniffing out poo, or sniffing it and eating it! There is no chewing of said poo, but maybe a quick gulp? No line will stop her, as it is right under my feet almost. I have to let her sniff - that's what they do well! Thoughts and ideas on this please.

I read the other day, that for each month of their lives (puppy hood times anyway!) that is how long they can control their bladder/bowel movement. If this is true, then I feel a bit more relaxed. I think I'm pressurising myself too much.
 
You got a springer they are often a bit dotty but all of this is normal puppy stuff .
They chew things they eat stuff that makes them poorly and have trip to vets I got a lab pup ATM who had a trip to vets when he discovered the muck heap .my pup has been house trained for two months now we have rarely had an accident since he arrived but I work very hard at it I take him out every two hours and wait till he goes and I get up at night if he stirrs he now safe to be left for several hours as long as he's tired when you leave
Puppies are hard work .
You need some help but mainly I think what you have is a normal springer .
 
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Eating poo will not be helping as its going to cause diarrhoea. It's a very difficult thing to stop them doing.
You can try garlic tablets, pineapple or tablets called stool repel but these will only help if it's her own poo she's eating.
I would keep her on a long line for now until you can get the house training under control.
 
If she is doing it under your feet, then you can see that there is a poo there and then not let her sniff it? She can sniff loads of other stuff :p
 
I would guess she is eating the poo as she has associated pooing with being in trouble and is 'hiding' it.
With the poo bag, rather than smacking just prise her jaws open, that is how we teach the labs to give what they bring, always encourage her to bring what she is carrying and take it off her with lots of praise and reward with a treat if you wish. As a spaniel she is bred to carry things and will eat them if you don't take them.
Yesterday my young lab bought me a rotten mixy rabbit, I gave her much praise and put it on the wall for later disposal. I then got sidetracked looking at chickens and she got on the wall, took the rabbit back and when I didn't notice she ate the whole thing. Luckily being a lab her guts are equal to a Tasmanian Devils and there were no ill effects.
 
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