Update to TMJ and bitless bridle threads

[cptrayes]

EDT has confirmed a displaced TMJ on his right side, and worse, believes that if we were to x ray we would see that the piece of skull on which the TMJ hangs was/is broken. The whole of that quarter of his face is slightly out of alignment.

There is no point in paying for x rays because there is absolutely nothing that can be done to put it right other than wait for it to heal.

So I have no option but to turn him away for three months and hope to goodness that it heals well enough to allow him to work again.

This is about all I needed after paying out for his kissing spines operation, and in fact the worst thing for his back rehab too, to be out of work. Bummer

If anyone has any good stories about recovery from TMJ/broken eye socket injuries I could do with them please!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Really sorry to hear this. Horses, eh?

Re the x-rays, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a set taken now anyway, so that you can assess him again in 3 months, and see how the healing has progressed? It shouldn't be too expensive to get the x-rays done.

 

[Regandal]

What about one of those magnetic-field pulse thingys - they're supposed to accelerate healing. What rotten bad luck. Sending vibes for his healing.

 

[AngieandBen]

Been following your threads, just wanted to send ((((((healing vibes)))))) and wishing you both well

 

[cptrayes]

Really sorry to hear this. Horses, eh?

Re the x-rays, wouldn't it be a good idea to have a set taken now anyway, so that you can assess him again in 3 months, and see how the healing has progressed? It shouldn't be too expensive to get the x-rays done.

I can't see any point except curiosity, really. My plan is to try him ridden in three months, when it will quickly be clear whether he is fixed or not, because he is the sweetest horse in the world if he's not in pain and he will stamp and thrash his tail when first mounted if he is. If three months is not enough, then we will increase it until a year is up, when some hard decisions would have to be made about his future.

 

[SusieT]

Have you asked the vet their view on the value of xrays? As if his TMJ had a displaced fracture of the bone it's hard to see how he would be able to use his jaw on that side, it's a fairly big joint..
Is he sore? If only a quarter it could be more muscular/nerve damage causing a change of musculature making it appear abnormal

 

[cptrayes]

Have you asked the vet their view on the value of xrays? As if his TMJ had a displaced fracture of the bone it's hard to see how he would be able to use his jaw on that side, it's a fairly big joint..
Is he sore? If only a quarter it could be more muscular/nerve damage causing a change of musculature making it appear abnormal

I asked the very how the treatment would change if we had x rays and she said it would not.

Thank you for your suggestions Susie, but I am giving an update, not asking for advice online about a complex condition which requires expert hands on the horse to understand. For example, from my word picture you don't seem to have understood that the joint itself is not fractured, but the skull an inch or two above it.

Field rest is the correct treatment, with as much normal eating movement of the jaw as possible. Since he is also predisposed to laminitis even when thin, that's going to be tricky!!!

 

[TigerTail]

Oh bless him and you Def tricky to manage unless you have a grass free turnout thingie with hay nets on the floor but then would the tugging aggravate the fracture if its just above a joint (speaking from a fractured spine with hyper mobile hips!)

 

[2horsesnomoney]

Good luck with this, can you do any of his back re-hab without agrivating the TMJ area? I am not sure if its possible but can you continue the rehab with head coller/ cavasson? or my physio has used "neck" lunging if that may be a possibility ? Not suggesting anything just musing it would be a shame after all your KS work and recovery......
Good luck hopeing for the best

 

[SusieT]

'piece of skull on which the TMJ hangs was/is broken' i.e the bit supporting the joint..
Seems ridiculous to me not to let the veterinary experts look at the horse and probably x ray to assess where everything is at, but get an EDT who while probably very good is presumably a lay person with only lay person skills and how they can diagnose a true fracture as opposed to boney brusing/soft tissue injury is a bit of a mystery by just seeing things out of line/not right-especially as horse is eating fine?
Yes-of course it needs expert hands on but this idea of 'must not get the vet but every other possible half qualified person in the meantime' is a bit odd-I am not telling you what your horse has but other possibilites to consider which may impact on 'full' recovery (may not happen if nerve damage).
But anyway..Good luck.

 

[cptrayes]

Totally confused by your posts now Susie. The vet has seen him twice, says x rays will not change how we handle it, and is not offering any treatment but time.

 

[cptrayes]

Good luck with this, can you do any of his back re-hab without agrivating the TMJ area? I am not sure if its possible but can you continue the rehab with head coller/ cavasson? or my physio has used "neck" lunging if that may be a possibility ? Not suggesting anything just musing it would be a shame after all your KS work and recovery......
Good luck hopeing for the best

I want to rest his neck too, unfortunately, or it would be a good suggestion. If he hit his head hard enough to break stuff, he must at the very least have jarred his neck, so although there is no sign of any lack of neck flexibility I think it's better to lay him off totally. Thanks for the suggestion though

 

[Fides]

Don't worry about people saying about X-rays. My foal broke his fetlock at 4 months - I was 120 miles from the nearest clinic and the fracture was quite obvious. The vet suggested, splint, box rest and then rest in a small area (my back garden) then turnout as normal without confirmatory X-ray's. He is now 5 and totally sound...

Hoping things improve x hugs x

 

[cptrayes]

Wow, that was a great recovery Fides. Did he eat your flowers ?

Thanks for that. Since his head isn't weight bearing, I am hopeful he will be ok.

 

[dianchi]

'piece of skull on which the TMJ hangs was/is broken' i.e the bit supporting the joint..
Seems ridiculous to me not to let the veterinary experts look at the horse and probably x ray to assess where everything is at, but get an EDT who while probably very good is presumably a lay person with only lay person skills and how they can diagnose a true fracture as opposed to boney brusing/soft tissue injury is a bit of a mystery by just seeing things out of line/not right-especially as horse is eating fine?
Yes-of course it needs expert hands on but this idea of 'must not get the vet but every other possible half qualified person in the meantime' is a bit odd-I am not telling you what your horse has but other possibilites to consider which may impact on 'full' recovery (may not happen if nerve damage).
But anyway..Good luck.

Don't apply logic Susie T

 

[Charley]

Don't apply logic Susie T

Hahaha too true.

 

[Fides]

Wow, that was a great recovery Fides. Did he eat your flowers ?

Thanks for that. Since his head isn't weight bearing, I am hopeful he will be ok.

He totally trashed the garden!! But it was lovely having him licking the lounge windows for attention lol

 

[cptrayes]

He totally trashed the garden!! But it was lovely having him licking the lounge windows for attention lol

.

 

[cptrayes]

Susie's post was not logical at all Dianchi. It was based on the premise that the horse had not been seen by the vet, when he had been seen twice.

Your own post, on the other hand, is a snipe at me because you do not like the fact that I once suggested that you test your 19 year old mare for Cushings, and stuck by that suggestion while you repeatedly PM'd me to try to make me withdraw it.

I know better than to try to help you ever again, but do you actually have any contribution to this thread that would help me?

Or did you really spend your effort solely to have a swipe at someone whose sole crime toward you was to attempt to offer helpful advice?

 

[cptrayes]

Hahaha too true.

And who knows what your motivation was, but enlightened contribution to HHO wasn't exactly high on the list, was it?

What happened to having some sympathy for a horse, if not its owner, who is really going through the mill at the moment?

If your horse suffers a potentially career shortening injury, I hope for your sake that you meet a nicer reception than this.

 

[JFTDWS]

When any of my horses suffer potentially career shortening injuries, they are fully investigated to ensure a definitive and accurate diagnosis...

 

[cptrayes]

When any of my horses suffer potentially career shortening injuries, they are fully investigated to ensure a definitive and accurate diagnosis...

Another one in the 'get x rays even though there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can be done to mend a skull fracture of this kind' camp?

I disagree with you. So does my vet.

 

[JFTDWS]

Another one in the 'get x rays even though there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can be done to mend a skull fracture of this kind' camp?

I disagree with you. So does my vet.

I didn't say it would affect treatment if that is what the horse has done...

 

[cptrayes]

You doubt my vet, my EDT and me when we say that's what the horse has done?

On what basis, exactly?

Thanks for your sympathy for the horse, by the way.....

 

[JFTDWS]

You doubt my vet, my EDT and me when we say that's what the horse has done?

On what basis, exactly?

Thanks for your sympathy for the horse, by the way.....

On the basis that I have yet to meet a vet, or an EDT with x ray vision.

Believe me, your horse has my complete sympathy.

 

[cptrayes]

On the basis that I have yet to meet a vet, or an EDT with x ray vision.

Believe me, your horse has my complete sympathy.

Which bit are you having trouble understanding about the fact that my vet says that there is no point in having an x ray, because no matter what it shows, there is nothing that can be done about it?

Is this about me, my horse, or the fact that you were also offended that I suggested that Dianchi should test her horse for Cushings?????

I cannot believe that an attempt to help someone brings rubbish like this down on my head. What on earth was so criminal about suggesting that a nineteen year old foot sore horse is tested for Cushings?

 

[JFTDWS]

Just for your peace of mind, I was merely amused by your suggestion re Cushings. It has certainly not influenced my posts here.

 

[cptrayes]

Just for your peace of mind, I was merely amused by your suggestion re Cushings. It has certainly not influenced my posts here.

You did not seem amused at the time. What you pointed out was that Dianchi competed affiliated and therefore cannot give her horse drugs.

So you appear to be giving me stick for, on the advice of a vet, not having x rays of my horse's skull, while condoning the idea of not doing a harmless and cheap test on an elderly foot sore horse in case it tests positive and the rider has to give up affiliated competition.

Beats me.

 

[TheMule]

I want you to have an x-ray done because it would be fascinating to see
It must have been a humungous impact to fracture the skull, that thing is incredibly tough!

 

[Arizahn]

Have to say, I would want x-rays if it were me. They certainly couldn't hurt, and might show if there were any further unseen damage too. All the very best to him either way. Have you any idea as to what could have led him to charge headfirst into the wall, has his eyesight been checked, etc?