UPF and Horse Feeds

[Jambarissa]

I think I posted over a year ago asking whether anyone was concerned about the processing of horse feeds.

I was concerned that speedibeet wouldn't be absorbed in the same way as traditional sugar beet, similar to how a smoothy spikes your blood sugar faster and higher than eating the ingredients of the smoothy . I don't think anyone was particularly interested.

Now the research on ultra processed food (for humans) is starting to show some scary things. There have been studies matching 2 diets by ingredients, nutrients, sugar, fat, etc and they still showed that the UPF diet had much worse out ones in terms of weight and health.

Same must apply to horse food. I stripped my feeds back to good chaff, large haynuts (to keep the fibres as long as possible), linseed and a vit and min supplement so not overly processed anyway but I'm wondering about the Iinseed. Before micronized linseed I used to boil it, might consider doing that again but probably excessive.

Anyone with higher feed needs looking into this? Are any companies better than others?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We have good doers, so only feed minimally anyway but I refuse to feed anything 'flavoured. I very much doubt that all the 'apple-flavoured' feeds have ever seen an apple. We stopped feeding anything molasses at least 30 yrs ago when we realised that we had a mare who couldn't tolerate any added sugar.

 

[Snow Falcon]

Haven't fed anything molassed for years. I stick to straights rather than mixes. My animals have a much healthier diet than me.

 

[Cragrat]

I noticed years ago that speedibeet affected my horses hooves almost as much as molassed feeds, and I haven't fed it since.

 

[hollyandivy123]

chaff, hay........hedgerow herbs rosemary rose hips etc as we use a muzzle and this means no hedge diving etc

 

[marmalade76]

How would Speedibeet not be absorbed the same as traditional beet? It's the same stuff just squashed into flakes rather than pellets so it soaks quicker. Traditional beet (which is meant for cattle really) also has added molasses which Speedibeet does not.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I think there are a lot of things to worry about in life, and I can't bring myself to make UPF in horse food one of them.
It makes up such a small % of my horses intake, that I really can't imagine it matters enough to use up the mental energy.
I feed Honey chop lite & healthy, fast fibre + a home made sarcoid supplement. He also gets whichever treats are the cheapest at the time.
Feet and coat are fine, horse is alive.

 

[Peglo]

How would Speedibeet not be absorbed the same as traditional beet? It's the same stuff just squashed into flakes rather than pellets so it soaks quicker. Traditional beet (which is meant for cattle really) also has added molasses which Speedibeet does not.

I was wondering this too. And the fact it’s not had molasses added to it surely makes it less processed than sugarbeet?

 

[Jambarissa]

How would Speedibeet not be absorbed the same as traditional beet? It's the same stuff just squashed into flakes rather than pellets so it soaks quicker. Traditional beet (which is meant for cattle really) also has added molasses which Speedibeet does not.

The more mushed up something is the more broken down the fibre in it is and therefore the fibre is less effective at slowing movement through the gut and the sugars hit the blood stream quicker causing higher spikes.

It's the equivalent of eating whole fruit versus whole fruit smoothy.

I have no idea whether that affects speedibeet but it is so much faster to soak which suggests the fibre is in far smaller particles than in the original product.

With foods in general it's about more than just the ingredients and % sugar/starch/fat/fibre, how it's been processed or cooked makes a huge difference.

I think A&P Fast Fibre is probably very affected by this. Ingredients are OK as are the proportions of starch, sugar, fibre but it's a very fine mush when made up.

I look at human diets not horses, so no idea but the theory concerns me enough to ensure my lami risk ponies have moved off fast feeds onto others with similar ingredients but less processing.

 

[Jambarissa]

I was wondering this too. And the fact it’s not had molasses added to it surely makes it less processed than sugarbeet?

You can buy unmollassed sugar beet pellets and shreds.

 

[Jambarissa]

If anyone is interested in this type of thing buy a glucose monitor and try it out on yourself.

Eat an apple for breakfast then next day grind the apple and eat it then following day cook it and eat it. Test blood sugar before and every 30 mins. Ingredients are the same, effect is very different.

If you really want to scare yourself try a whole grain, low sugar high fibre breakfast cereal. Same effect on me as a snickers!

I've never tried this on a horse, guess I could.

 

[Peglo]

You can buy unmollassed sugar beet pellets and shreds.

Oh right. I didn’t know that.
I feed straights only and no feed with molasses in it other than treats but I do use speedibeet and linseed. I haven’t thought about the processing of either tbh.

 

[SEL]

If anyone is interested in this type of thing buy a glucose monitor and try it out on yourself.

Eat an apple for breakfast then next day grind the apple and eat it then following day cook it and eat it. Test blood sugar before and every 30 mins. Ingredients are the same, effect is very different.

If you really want to scare yourself try a whole grain, low sugar high fibre breakfast cereal. Same effect on me as a snickers!

I've never tried this on a horse, guess I could.

If you want to really scare yourself have the same breakfast with oat milk!!

 

[criso]

I use the unmolassed 24 hour soak sugarbeet as it's so much cheaper, £11 instead of £18.

I'm not clear on exactly what process quick soak sugarbeets have gone through as I'm not sure just the size difference would account for difference from 20 minutes to 24 hours. The long soak are really small pellets not the size of pony nuts.

However I'm open to the idea that processing them could make a difference to how they are digested.

My comparison would be porridge. Even the instant ones without flavourings or sugar are absorbed differently to actual oats as they tend to be part cooked as well as fine ground.

Linseed is cooked either way as it used to be cooked for hours. Micronizing as a form of cooking may end up better than boiling for hours, i don't know if any comparisons have bern done.

 

[ester]

I always thought it was how compressed the beet is/ surface to volume ratio.

 

[criso]

I always thought it was how compressed the beet is/ surface to volume ratio.

When you look at old fashioned sugarbeet when i was a child, they were actual big cubes. The 24 hour ones nowadays are tiny pellets. They are much denser than quick soak but even so 20 mins to 24 hours seems a big jump.

Both are processed in the sense that it's a by product once the sugar is extracted and dried and turned into shreds or pellets so if size and shape are the only difference, then it's just about price versus convenience.

 

[ester]

I only saw shreds as a kid . We need a sugar beet person

 

[marmalade76]

I use the unmolassed 24 hour soak sugarbeet as it's so much cheaper, £11 instead of £18.

I'm not clear on exactly what process quick soak sugarbeets have gone through as I'm not sure just the size difference would account for difference from 20 minutes to 24 hours. The long soak are really small pellets not the size of pony nuts.

However I'm open to the idea that processing them could make a difference to how they are digested.

My comparison would be porridge. Even the instant ones without flavourings or sugar are absorbed differently to actual oats as they tend to be part cooked as well as fine ground.

Linseed is cooked either way as it used to be cooked for hours. Micronizing as a form of cooking may end up better than boiling for hours, i don't know if any comparisons have bern done.

I buy beet in a white sack, think it's made by Omega? Anyway, it's like speedibeet and it's £11 a sack. I wouldn't pay £18 for a sack, I'd go back to the cattle stuff rather than pay that!

I'd also say that Speedibeet (and the cheap Speedibeet knock off I buy) needs more than 20 minutes to soak unless you use hot water. Rub it between your fingers and you'll still feel hard bits. It needs at least an hour I'd say.

 

[Jambarissa]

With linseed all that boiling was about the poisons (wrong word? I'm tired!) that are released when it gets wet so you had to boil it for hours to get rid of them.

But in early 2000s there was research that showed if you used boiling water then stuck it straight in the microwave for 5 mins that was sufficient. So I did that for years before the micronised stuff became available. It was cheap as chips and made a lovely goo, great for mixing into a feed.

It did go hard once cold though. My husband broke 2 dishwashers by putting the tub in them where it liquefied with the hot water then solidified in the pipes

I used it to feed up a manic, underweight rescue TB, worked a treat. I only use a little linseed for nutrition purposes now so prob not worth the faff.

 

[Jambarissa]

I've just found this on here from 10 years ago saying the same thing

Thread 'Micronised Linseed vs Raw or Boiled?' https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/micronised-linseed-vs-raw-or-boiled.641127/

 

[criso]

With linseed all that boiling was about the poisons (wrong word? I'm tired!) that are released when it gets wet so you had to boil it for hours to get rid of them.

Linase which can trigger Hydrogen cyanide in moist conditions though there's an argument now that the danger isn't likely. That's the same reason they micronize. Boiling also turned it into jelly and made it more digestible.

Either way you are using a form of cooking to kill a poison and make it digestible, whether that's boiling, microwaves or I think charnwood uses infrared in their micronizing. So I think they are all processed just using different heat processes

ETA my local feedstore sells whole linseed as bird feed but not much cheaper.

 

[criso]

I buy beet in a white sack, think it's made by Omega? Anyway, it's like speedibeet and it's £11 a sack. I wouldn't pay £18 for a sack, I'd go back to the cattle stuff rather than pay that!

I'd also say that Speedibeet (and the cheap Speedibeet knock off I buy) needs more than 20 minutes to soak unless you use hot water. Rub it between your fingers and you'll still feel hard bits. It needs at least an hour I'd say.

I think Purabeet and easibeet are a bit cheaper and Kwikbeet even more.

I found something called Omega 10 quick soak online which says 10 minutes in cold water as does speedibeet so that's what people are doing. That's about £15 online so your £10 is a really good price assuming it's a 20kg sack

I pay £11.70 for a 25kg bag of Trident Equibeet and for that saving will happily be organised to soak the day before.

 

[criso]

I've just found this on here from 10 years ago saying the same thing

Thread 'Micronised Linseed vs Raw or Boiled?' https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/micronised-linseed-vs-raw-or-boiled.641127/

Yes I'm aware of the debate that feeding raw in small amounts is safe though I do feed than the 100g they suggest is a safe limit.

They also suggest on that thread that micronizing does not denature the omegas but boiling does but I didn't read all the links.

 

[marmalade76]

I think Purabeet and easibeet are a bit cheaper and Kwikbeet even more.

I found something called Omega 10 quick soak online which says 10 minutes in cold water as does speedibeet so that's what people are doing. That's about £15 online so your £10 is a really good price assuming it's a 20kg sack

I pay £11.70 for a 25kg bag of Trident Equibeet and for that saving will happily be organised to soak the day before.

Yeah, Omega quick soak sounds right and it's 20kg. They also do micronised linseed in 20kg, again in a white sack with just a label stuck on.