Upset over rugging coments

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SecretSquirrell379

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Ok now maybe I am too sensitive and taking this totally to heart but the YO upset me last night over comments she made about how I rug my girl. I am a bit emotional at the moment and I am a bit of a sensitive person but I'm upset all the same
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Cropi has not put on as much weight as I would of liked coming towards winter as the grass this summer has been terrible. I can feel all of her ribs from the top of her back all the way down to her tummy. The farrier and my instructor have both said that she has a covering but would like to see a bit more weight on her coming into winter. She is fed twice a day and has 3/4 scoop of honeychop, 1/4 scoop of Dengie Good Doer, 1/2 scoop of 16+ (she is 15 1/2 and out 24/7) and has 2 full haynets a day, but, she is still not putting on weight.

To look at her you would not think she is skinny, she is really fluffy and its only when you run your hand down her side you feel all of her ribs.

Since the cold snap started (its been between 1-3c at night, with a heavy frost here and about 13c during the day) she has had on an underug, just over a light weight and this has been left on as I want to keep the heat in when I change rugs, with her lightweight during the day and a 300g heavy weight at night.

The YO (who does not have her own horse but her daughter has one) came and saw me last night and asked me if my girl had her heaviest rug on, I said yes and she told me that it was ridiculous as she has another rug on underneath and what was I going to do when it got really cold
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I was gobsmacked and turned into a stupid little girl being told off by her headmistress and just shrugged, like an idot, and said I dunno
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(I am 37
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) I explained that I was trying to keep weight on her and did't want to her lose anymore weight and wanted to keep her warm. She said that I would regret and then left.

I am really mad with myself that I didn't just say that when it does get colder I'll just put an extra rug on if needed, and, the temperature here even in the mid winter rarely goes below -2 or -3 so only 5c difference. Why didn't I stick up for myself?? Why do I now find myself questioning if I am doing the right thing or not?? Why did I feel guilty this morning when I left her underug on and put her l/w on??

Cropi has not sweated once under her rugs, she feels toasty but not boiling hot but now I feel like a crap Mum
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I know that its more rugs than some of you would use or rather are using at the moment but up until last night I really did think that I was doing the right thing for Cropi but now I just feel stupid
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What would you have done with regards to food/rugs ????

Thanks

Tricksy xx
 
Feed wise - I'd get rid of the honey chop and good doer (as she isn't, is she?) and add sugar beet (preferably speedibeet) starting at half a scoop morning and night, with the half scoop of 16 +.
I'd keep the hay etc the same, but also get her teeth rasped if needed, and worm her for tapeworm at the moment, and with Panacur 5 day or Equest in a month or so for small redworm and bots.
Rugs - I'd have a middleweight standard on her during the day and either a heavier weight standard, or stick a hood on at night.
 
Try not to worry. I hate people like your busy body YO. She's proberly got nothing better to do! As long as cropi's not sweating under the rugs i'm sure she is fine (and nice and warm)! Just think of all these show horses which are rugged up to the eyeball's all year round!
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I've had the same with my new boy he was in poor condition when i got him and he put some weigh on and was looking good but now the cold has set in he's all ribby again so he is having a hw on as he was cold everyone has looked down on me and said what are you going to do when its really cold. well for one he is my horse so i shall do what i think with him and two i shall layer thinner rugs etc and if not i'll plug him in to the mains!!, i said about digging my exercise sheet out the other day and one on the ladys on the yard said god you don't need one of them till it's mius 3 while she was walking around coat up over face thick gloves on etc, but no i don't need an exercise sheet do i!!, don't worry about it you know your horse and whats best for her,
 
Thanks for the reply
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She had her teeth done last month and they were fine, she eats her food with no problem and polishes it all off. I started her on the good doer just over a week ago as she is having 1 bute a day and the mint flavour seems to cover up the taste, she has 'navicular changes' going on and is under the vet for it. She was wormed last month too and the vet did a full worm count when she was in there 2 weeks ago and she was clear.

I'll get her some Speedibeet and slowly swap the chaff for that, as long as she still eats her bute!

Thanks for your rug suggestions too, the day time probably adds up to similar to mine, and the night time is not too far off either.

At least you didn't tell me that I was going about it totally wrong
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Thanks again xx
 
I'd also get rid of the honeychop and good doer and swop it for Alfa A and speedibeat, and if you want to stick with the 16+ (I know a lot of people swear by balancers such as top spec these days). The alfa A will be far more benefical than honeychop and as said above the beet will help with weight gain (and you can hid the bute in it)

No real views on the rugging issue, I probably would have her in a MW at the moment at night if you are concerned rather than a HW but you can always add a hood and/or another layer when it gets very cold if she does need the extra pampering given her condition.
 
Sorry, she sounds a bit of a ***! I hate people who interfere, I know a few interferers and most of them do it purely to help and don't realise they are interfering, but sometimes they know full well they are and their comments (sometimes nasty ones) are unwanted. She obviously wasn't trying to help, she was just trying to get you to feel bad. Don't! Like you said, your horse is warm and alive now, when it gets colder you can always put more layers on if needed (I always find it's a good excuse to go rug shopping though
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I would keep your rugging the same (maybe put a mediumweight rug on in the day if needed, but then mine have been out with lightweights on during the day as it's so warm in the sun!). Mine have had mediumweight hooded rugs on at night (they are out 24/7) even though it's been very nearly freezing point, one of them is a warm horse anyway and the other has grown such a coat he's fine (they're not worked at the moment). When their owner comes home, they'll be stabled at night, clipped, and rugged up in their heaviest rugs overnight. There's just no need for it at the moment, neither of them are skinny so they can use a bit of fat! Go by your own horse's situation and ignore everyone else's rugging!
As for feeding, I agree about cutting the Dengie Good Doer and maybe the Honeychop. When mine needed extra weight and condition I had her on Bailey's Top Line Cubes, Alfa A, and would have used Speedibeet if needed. As far as I can see you seem to be feeding her at maintenance level, which will of course maintain her current weight and condition. Stick her on some Alfa A and sugar beet and try some conditioning feed and I'm sure she'll come right in no time. I also found NAF Pink Powder is good for putting the weight on (free sample if you want it, I'm only giving it to my horse now as I want rid of it and I'll be damned if I'm chucking it away!)
The most important thing is, your horse has food, water, shelter, and is kept in a clean environment. She's alive and you care for her, ingore your YO's comments!
 
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I'll get her some Speedibeet and slowly swap the chaff for that, as long as she still eats her bute!

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I find they (generally) tend to eat bute better if mixed with sugar beet
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Thank you everyone else for your replies. I don't know why I did'nt answer the YO properly, she just makes me feel like I'm being told off
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I'll do the same and layer lighter rugs if needed and yes at the end of the day she is my blinking horse!!!

By the way I used an excercise sheet when we went out yesterday morning, its was 3c, frosty and we are only allowed to walk at the moment (vets orders
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Awwww hun i kind of know how you feel!

Two Winters ago (so not last winter, but the one before that), mickey's owner insisted on clipping him-- full out!
And she would only let us put a medium weight rug on, with a hood! HE WAS FREEZING, and lost weight we couldn't bare looking at him!
And his owner wouldn't listen to us, she said he was over weight and he needed to shiver off his weight (he wasn't over weight at all, he was being riden atleast 3 times a week)!
So we had to stand up to her and say we are bringing mickey in or we are buying him another rug! So she let us bring him in, but that was a battle and a half to win with her!

So last winter we said YOU ARE NOT CLIPPING HIM! she tried to change our minds, but we didnt!

Sometimes even though you are scared of standing up to someone you have to, she is your horse, and you know whats happening to her. not your yard owner!


Goodluck with getting weight back on her!
 
Some great suggestions coming here, the most common one seems to be to get ride of the chaff/good doer and I'll start that tonight.

Silmarillion - The pink powders will be great, I'll pm you and pay you for them of course.

I really do appreciate everyones recommendations and advise, I do not pretend to know everything and I always welcome suggestions but as you say there are ways and means of saying things. What pee's me off to is that to know that she had the underug on she must of come into my field and stuck her hand under the rug to feel how warm she is
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LOL Hubby is pee'd about it too and is on the net at the moment.....he is quite non horsey but helps out and loves Cropi......conversation goes.....

H: What weight is Cropi's h/w rug?
Me: 300g
H:ok

10 mins later

H: This rug looks really good, its got good reviews, do you want me to get it for you??
Me:
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Its a Fal Pro 450g Goliath rug LOL Bless him, I said no as its far too expensive and I don't think she will need it, he's looking at Rambo's now LOL
 
Regarding the feeding - I would gradually stop the honeychop and Good Doer and change from a 16+ mix to a conditioning cube or mix together with speedibeet. If you are not feeding the amount the manufacturers recommend, then you need to top up with either a Vit & Min supplement or a Feed balancer - as she needs to put on weight, I would go for the balancer. If you find she won't eat the bute, you could try Danilon instead (this is sugar coated and most fussy eaters will accept it) - it is a little more money than bute, your vet will be able to tell you. As for the rugging up - if she is toasty warm and not hot, then you are obviously not doing anything wrong. You could also try changing the hay to high fibre haylage. Once she has some more weight on her - you will probably not have to rug her up so well. Please don't take the criticism to heart - she is your horse at the end of the day.
 
Another couple of points - sometimes feeding a Vit Min supplement can help (mine all eat Equivite happily)...and adding a splash of corn oil to the feed can improve the coat and skin.
Hope she puts condition on...and doesn't fry in her rugs
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Just to say the Goliath is a fantastic rug! I'm on my 4/5th year with one and it comes up like new every time it is cleaned. The beauty of these rugs is that they are effective at a range of temps. I don't need to put any rugs under it however cold it gets, yet it is not too heavy even in milder winter weather. It's on my WB/TB who is fully clipped out.

I'd agreee with everyone else about the feeding, and also suggest a balancer. Equilibra, D&H, and Baileys all do one and they are all very good.

Don't worry about the YO. Knowledge is not a prerequisite for owning a yard, some people just want to be control freaks!
 
The 16+ mix she is on is Dodson & Horrell and it is a conditioning mix:

<font color="blue"> Sixteen Plus Mix
High fibre and oil mix for veteran horses and ponies prone to weight loss.

In the later years of life your horse or pony may find it increasingly difficult to maintain condition and weight.</font>

So would this be ok to keep and just change to the Speedibeet??

I did think about the Danillon if she stops eating the bute but I think that Simallion (sorry if its wrong!) said that they seem to eat bute better in Speedibeet anyway.

She does not sweat up in her rugs at all. During her excercise she gets a sweaty girth and we are only walking for 45 mins so I am sure if she was too hot then she would sweat.

I did have her on haylage last winter but she got a bit fizzy on it, because of her feet at the moment I need to fatten her up rather than fizz her up.

This forum is great for getting advise and opinions
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IMO the 16+ is fine...as you want her to increase condition gradually rather than suddenly throwing high protein and energy feeds down her, as you'd just end up with metabolic problems.
Sugar beet is a good feed as it is high in fibre, so keeps the gut working, and has high calcium levels. It gets digested in the 'hind gut' so helps to produce long term energy for keeping warm etc rather than a sudden sugar rush.
 
If the horse feels nice and toastie without being too hot then you have got the rugs spot on! You can easily add another layer later in winter as even a thin layer will work very well.

I think I would be feeding something like Alfa A and either Alpha Beet or Sugar Beet instead of the Chop and Good Doer as these are basically straw with some vits. The mix sounds fine. Plenty of quality adlib hay or haylage 24/7 and you can't go far wrong.

Oh, and tell the old moose at the yard to mind her own business
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Gosh I hate interfering people
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Try not to let it upset you.

With regard to her feed, I don't see the point is feeding two different types of chaff and so little mix when you are trying to build her up. I agree about dropping the dengie good doer - I use that with success for my horse, Be, who I'm endlessly trying to get the weight off
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I would drop both chaffs, and feed her the dengie senior instead - which smells delicious if you are trying to hide the smell of bute. If she's having ab lib hay then I don't think you need as much chaff in her feeds, so maybe just limit that to half a scoop, but I would definitely increase the mix - it's not a great deal for a medium sized older horse living out this time of year. I also think the spillers senior conditioning mix is better that D&amp;H - It works wonders with building Star up
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so maybe try and give her that. She can have more than half a scoop per feed, maybe up it to 3/4, see how that goes. I also agree that sugar beet would be great for both the weight gain and hiding the bute.

With reagrd to rugs, at the moment mine are out 24/7 and generally they are wearing lightweights in the day, and middleweights at night. I would probably do the same with your girl. I know that over rugging Star is the quickest way to kill her appetite and make her irritable (and crib more) so it makes her lose weight.

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H. x
 
I've just been down to the tack shop and got some speedibeet. I have had her on the Good Doer just for the flavour to hide the bute, she was on a full scoop of Honeychop before that. I have been increasing the D&amp;H 16+ over the last couple of weeks, I started her off a couple of weeks ago on 1/4 scoop, now up to 1/2 scoop and I planned to increase it again this week to 3/4 of a scoop, as you have suggested. I didn't want to give her too much too quickly and to pile on the weight, I thought that slowly slowly was better for her.

I have almost a new sack of D&amp;H so will stick with that for now and bear in mind the Spillers mix. I think that with everyones advise I should be able to get some weight on her now
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I'd add the speedibeet gradually first...whilst keeping the mix the same...only increasing mix if a couple of weeks on speedibeet doesn't put any weight on her.
It's always better to put weight on with forages such as hay, haylage, and sugar beet (which counts as forage) than with mix, for the horse's health.
Let us know how she gets on...
 
Agree with puppy as above really. I think I'd look at her feed first and don't be shy about ringing a company for advice. If you say she's a bit lean for your liking why use Good Doer, it's meant for fatties so will never make her put weight on.

I'd probably give her a high fibre/low sugar/ low starch diet and add extra calories with oil, the simplesystem feeds are excellent and not over priced. Alfa beet is also a good choice.

With rugs she will lose weight if cold but you could maybe compromise by using a neck cover, horses lose a lot of body heat from this area so maybe think about getting one and saving the xtra layers for later on.

Finally don't let the YO upset you, she's your horse, period.
 
Regarding chaff, you don't have to feed it at all, often it is added to a feed just to eke it out a bit!

You could just feed Sixteen + at the recommended rate (weigh out a scoop full to be sure) and and Dengies Alfa Beet, which is a 50/50 mix of sugarbeet and alfalfa, and provides condition without lunacy. Ours looked great on it last year (too fat to be fed at the moment!)

Always horrid when someone gives you a hard time, give it a while and your YO will probably start to wonder why she has no friends!!!
 
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Agree with puppy as above really. I think I'd look at her feed first and don't be shy about ringing a company for advice. If you say she's a bit lean for your liking why use Good Doer, it's meant for fatties so will never make her put weight on.

Finally don't let the YO upset you, she's your horse, period.

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The only reason she has been having Good Doer is that she was put on daily bute 10 days ago and refused, point blank to eat her food. One of the other liverys suggested I give her a handful in her food as it has a strong mint flavour and may mask the taste of the bute, it worked. I would not of given it to her otherwise as I know its for weight watching horses, its purely the taste thing!! Hopefully the Speedibeet will take the bute flavour up and I won't be giving it to her anymore.

She does have linseed oil in her food already, not lots of it, its got a pump and she has 6 pumps in each feed
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Someone else on here rang a company for feed advise, not sure who it was and it worked for them didn't it??? I think that I will try the Speedibeet and no Chaff routine for a couple of weeks and see how she goes before I do that.

Sounds like the Spillers 16+ is well recommended as well, I might get a sack of that when I'm half way through the D&amp;H and start to mix it in gradually.

Thanks everyone
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Agree with everyone else about adding the beet and doing away with the good doer. Personally my choice would be Fibrebeet, which combines Alfalfa and the unmolassed beet, and every horse/pony I have fed it too has absolutely loved it. But regarding the YO's comment, it is COLD at night at the moment. OK, not going below 0, but it won't go a great deal colder than it's getting at the moment, unless we are in for a real humdinger of a winter with it dropping significantly below minus 5.

Good luck, and I hope she starts to chub up a bit soon. Personally I swear by Blue Chip for a feed balancer, has worked really well on the skinnies I know.
 
Well she has just woofed her dinner
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1/2 scoop Speedibeet, 1/2 scoop chaff and 1/2 scoop D&amp;H 16+. I will change it next week to 1/4 chaff and 3/4 speedibeet and 3/4 16+
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(with her normal linseed oil and newmarket supplement)

Thanks everyone for your recommendations, fingers crossed this works, but if not I have several other options to try.

I did put her in her m/w jim jams at first but when I checked her after about an hour she was not that warm (the temp has dropped quite a bit) so I put a thin fleece underneath and she was then fine.

I don't feel like such a bad mum now
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Thank you all again
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