Urgent advice needed re bitch and pups.

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itsme123

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A realtive has 3 dogs, one bitch which is due to give birth any day.
Normally his OH would have been at home (he works long hours) but she's just done a runner
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, left him with the 3 dogs then called the RSPCA on him for having the dogs at home on their own all day. In actual fact, only the bitch has been left in the house, but he realises he canot cope with 3 dogs and a litter of pups on his own. He aims to rehome one of the dogs after christmas, but until then we've agreed that I will take the bitch and pups (when they're born, they're due this week), so he doesnt have to worry about her being alone when he's at work.

Okay, now ideally the pups can't be in the house. I have small children and cats. But we have a sturdy draught free outhouse, which the bitch could raise the pups in. It's about 8ft by 6ft, dry and cosy.

What i'd like to have, in preparation is a heat lamp or something for incase it gets really cold. She's a small JRT bitch, and I'd like to give her all the warmth pssible. BUT we don't have electric running to the outhouse.

Has anyone any idea if you can buy heatlamps that run off battery (car battery?)

also any handy tips re puppies would be helpful. Thankyou.

PS I know this isnt an ideal situation, but he's literally been dumped with this, and is trying to do what's best by all under the circumstances.
 
when our JRT had pups she would not have been able to raise them outside as she gets cold in the middle of summer!!

We got a metal fence/cage which we could put around her basket. This kept them in the house but they could not get at the cats etc. This may also work out a cheaper option than running a heat lamp for 8 weeks.

Our litter of German Shepherds managed fine outside but thay have a much different coat.
 
Can you run an external extension cord out there? Then you can place a heat lamp in there for the puppies.

My dogs live outside however I brought my whelping bitch into the house 2 days before she was due to whelp to give her time to settle in and choose her spot. I kept the pups in the house with Lily until they were 3 or 4 weeks old, as by then they were on solids and made a dreadful mess, Lol! Then I moved them back into the dog room. I made a large pen where Lily could get out but the puppies were kept in. I had a heat lamp over their bed and Lily never slept with them at that time; she went back to sleeping in her own bed and just jumped into the pen when they needed feeding.

Lily did not like being in the house however. She was way too hot. We lost one puppy to cold so do be aware of this. The first night after the pups were born, I had them in a pen which was too big and one of the pups managed to get away from Lily and she didn't go and bring him back to the warmth as I guess she didn't really know what she was doing. The temperature under the heat lamp should be around 75F.

You could use straw or hay instead of bedding? This is a very good source of keeping them warm.
 
Sorry I dont have any helpful advice Charlie but good luck with them!

I cant believe she left and reported him to the RSPCA doesnt she realise they have real jobs to do with animals which actually are suffering!
 
Poor bitch, I really don't think it's fair to expect her to go from being a house dog to living outside (in a strange place) when she has just given birth. The poor bitch will be stress enough with a litter to care for, without the move and the the environment change to content with too. Is there no one else who can take her who would be more able to meet her needs? If not I would be asking if the RSPCA could find a foster home (yes I know that will mean signing the dog over, but at least the home will be experienced and set up to care for her)? My JRT was born in a kennel, but his mum had lived outside her whole life, it was warmer (as April) and they still needed a heat lamp.
 
First I want to say that I think it's great that you've agreed to help your relative.

But as TaylordEquestrian says it would probably be cheaper to have them indoors, if you have similar temperature outside as me, the lamp might need to be on constantly for as long as they're there. And/or they'll need a lot of blankets, and it will soon equal with a lot of laundry for you, because you can be sure, that if they can pee on more than one blanket at the same time, they will.



Where ever you end up keeping them, from when the puppies are 3, 4 weeks old, the bitch MUST have a place of her own, out of the puppies reach. Perhaps you could put in a small table and a footstool for her to use to get up on the table, studies have shown that bitches that have no place to get away from their puppies, treats their puppies more rough to get some privacy.



If you do use the outhouse, you need to spend more time with the puppies, than you need if you have them in the house. Because indoors, they can hear the normal households sounds, such as people talking, vacuuming, music/radio etc. So to some extent, they get used to people, without that you actually have to be present, but in the outhouse, they can only get used to humans when you're there.



From when they're 3, 4 weeks old you can start putting in things for them to investigate, f. ex. the sort of pan that you could use in the oven, a saucepan or something. One of the favourite toys for the puppies in Jonna's litter, was a empty fish ball can (of course without sharp edges were I once had opened it), one of the few toys that lasted all 5 weeks they had it.
When you handle them, don't let them think that they only need to nibble you with their teeth or struggle a little = you let them go. I try to only put back down/let go of a puppy when it's still and hold my hands so they can't reach them with their teeth when I'm holding them. I'm always grateful for it, when I need to lift one of my adult dogs up at or down from, a veterinary "table", and don't get four legs waving around my face.



If you intend to use newspapers on the floor, start saving them now, and ask friends or relatives if you can have theirs. I started saving a few months before Jonna's litter and I didn't have many left when the puppies were 8 weeks, and they still spent some time outdoors every day.
If you know that you'll take them to the vets at 10 o'clock, don't feed them or let the bitch feed them after 8 o'clock, that will lower the risk for carsickness, it can still happen, but it really is less likely.




And you need to think of the what ifs also, will the owner be able to help with the selling? What if there's one or more puppies left after 8 weeks? If the bitch gets an inflammation in the uterus (can happen after whelping according to my books) who pays for the vet etc?


Good luck, from Sweden.
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Julie:
thankyou, that's eased my mind a little. The pups will hopefully come on time and she will give birth at home, then they will be moved here after two weeks.

Taylored equestrian:
I have kindly been offered a cage to borrow, but unfortunately one of our cats is a bit crazy and territorial. She attacks my huge spaniel, let alone pups!

Tia:
She's inside at relatives ATM and will give birth there (hopefully!!). He has to go back to work in a little over two weeks. But normally she lives outside, so I don't think she'd be bothered, it's just the pups I'm worrying about! Thankyou for the advice re the heat lamps, OH is going to rig something up from the mains on the house. Relative came over this evening and we discussed the whole thing in more depth. We've decided to use clean straw and have the room as a half and half, half for bed and food, the other half for the pups mess etc, but if they use the bed by accident then straw at least will be easy to keep clean. Plus, as you say, it's warm.

Celibrations:
It takes all sorts LOL.

PBS: unfortunately life isnt perfect. She's lived outside, will give birth inside and will move to ours later on. We *could* sign her over to a complete stranger and put a drain on the RSPCA resources over Christmas, or let her come and stay with us, a place she knows well, and people she knows well...
Or we could do as the local farmer advised and drown the pups at birth?
Sometimes it's a cse of making the best out of a bad situation and we feel (obviously knowing the bitch) that what we're doing is best for HER.

Oneboyandhishorse:
Nope. It's his bitch, although she did leave her own dog (the one he's trying to rehome).

Finnishlaphund:
fabulous advice which i've written down THANKYOU
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. I also plan to go to the shops and get myself a good book and speak to my vet for advice too.
Th owner will pay for ALL costs involved and will help out daily.
The owner is going to do the selling, and if any pups are left we will look after until they're sold. We've set aside until 12 weeks until the pups will be ready to go (will play it by ear, if they're ready by 10 weeks then that's fine), but are prepared to keep them longer if unsold. I'm at home all day anyway...
 
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PBS: unfortunately life isnt perfect. She's lived outside, will give birth inside and will move to ours later on. We *could* sign her over to a complete stranger and put a drain on the RSPCA resources over Christmas, or let her come and stay with us, a place she knows well, and people she knows well...
Or we could do as the local farmer advised and drown the pups at birth?
Sometimes it's a cse of making the best out of a bad situation and we feel (obviously knowing the bitch) that what we're doing is best for HER.

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My response was a suggestion as to what IMO would be in the best interest of the bitch and pups. PMSL that as usual you have given half a story, got a response then changed it!!!

Loving the fact that you have now added that the bitch knows your place, normally lives outside and that she will be staying with her owner for the 1st two weeks.

Trust you to know someone who would suggest drowning the pups!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm must be soooo gullible, to take your posts on face value everytime...................when will I learn!!!
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Another irrisponssible breeder, by the sounds of it.

I know he says he will pay all costs, but make sure that includes caesarean......, common in small breeds, esp on first litter.....so atleast £600 plus a few hundred more if out of hours, as u will have to pay up front.

As suggested by FLH......the most important thing about raising puppies out side from day one, is getting them used to every day sounds and being handled, to prevent future behavioural problems.........as he will end up with adult J.r.t's back if thay need to be returned........as a responsible breeder he should have a contract made up when selling...........if he cannot do this and provide homes later in life, if they need returning, then he should at present hand/sign them over to a rescue, who will have more experience in whelping, and can offer life long back up for the puppies and spay the mother.

Also depending on age, and if she has whelped b4, she could disown the puppies, u will then have to be surrogate mummy, and be feeding every 2 hours for a good few weeks, and relieve them for urine and faeces or if she gets mastitis.

Just all scenarios that should be pre thought about.
Check her diet, she should be on extra food, puppy food is good to feed bitches in pup, and also that she has been wormed, and puppies are wormed at correct intervals, just a few thing to talk through the owner with.

Good luck.....it's good of u to offer help.........just make sure those responsible, back u up if need be, support wise and financial, esp with heat lamp, they are not cheap to run.
 
PBS i havent changed my story, i just wasnt aware i had to give every minute detail
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if you read my first post and your reply you'll realise i stated that the bitch would be giving birth at home. it was you who went off on one regarding the birth.

my question was re heatlamps for the pups after...

If you can't come up with anything constructive (except' sign the bitch over to the RSPCA' ) then p'raps better to say nothing at all. This was a post asking experienced dog owners / breeders for advice not an oppotunity for you to jump on and have a dig again
 
If you'r e going to use straw, I have an old book (from 1978) so it might very well be inaccurate by now, but it says one should try and avoid using oat straw, because it's more likely that an oat straw gets in under the skin and causes an abscess. It says you don't have that risk if you're using rye straw.



from Sweden.
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Thankyou for your advice Cala
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I was kind of hoping you would reply.

Everything had been planned, he works full time, she didnt work, and stayed home and looked after the dogs (he got the first one, she gifted him the bitch, and the third was hers). She was going to be there to do this, it was all planned. But she upped and left for reasons only she knows.
By the by, he cannot give up work to look after the bitch at a time when she needs lots of care. And at a time when a constant eye will need to be kept on the pups too). He gives up work to do this he loses the house... simple. As I said, it's about making the best out of a bad situation.
We discussed costs tonight and he's all okay for that. He will do anything in his power for that little bitch, because she's his 'baby'. He was very upset tonight at the thought of losing her, and worried the RSPCA will take the other dogs with him not being at home all day (even though I reassured him they wouldnt).

If you ask would I have bred from this bitch, then probably no, but no-one can control what others do, least of all HER who left, and the plan is definately to have this bitch spayed asap.

Luckily with the contacts my father has we hope to find them good homes with experienced people on farms and yards. We think we've found three homes already (can't ever be sure till they're born) plus we'll keep one.
 
That's interesting.

I will check with the man who supplies straw locally, and see what he has on offer. Our straw isnt clean enough to use for pups (it;s used for cattle), so was planning on buying it in anyway.
 
Best to have the pup's indoors hun, maybe's build a puppy pen so mother has freedom to leave when she needs a drink or food. keep the pen in a small quiet place but somewhere,where they can hear every day things like the hoover etc. when there about 4weeks them change over to a larger pen, but if you dont want to keep them in the house then yes you can run a heatlamp off a carbatt but it means you would have to keep a very close eye on the lamp just incase anything go's wrong. In stead of blankets get two lots of vetbed as if one needs cleaning you can swap them over, vetbed is great for pups from birth upwards it keeps bacteria low and keeps the pups snug and warm.
I would go with keeping the pups indoor due to the fact that if mum doesnt manage well with the pups you may have to take over, if something happens to the pup e.g gets ill then you'll spot in straight away and you can deal with it there and then, same with if mum falls a sleep on one of the pup's you hear the pup in distress you can sort it out rather than not hearing it and the pup ends up dead.
12 weeks is plenty of time, but you do know that you would have to sort injections out before they leave for new homes as well as toilet training, the shortest time ive let puppy's leave my household was 6 weeks and that was with there first injections.
Anyway hope that helps and if i can help even more just let me know.
 
That's wonderful advice, thankyou
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.

OH is with me and we're talking about this now and wondering if we should choose to go with inddors instead. We have an understairs area which is tiled (usually used for muddy boots, coats, etc, a bit like a utility area) which isnt heated BUT if we left the door open and put some wood up (low enough for bitch to get over, but high enough to stop pups), the warmth from the rest of the house would be fine. I remember my aunt did this years ago for her JRT and it worked out well.

Then we could move them outside at six weeks or something? would mean 4 less weeks of running the heat lamps, plus as you say, could keep an eye on the pups and bitch. It's at the centre of the house too.

I remember re the injections from when I got my puppy. I visited her weekly from birth and had her at 12 weeks, and by then she'd been frontlined etc.
We're hoping the cost of what he;ll charge for each pup will cover all costs, including spaying the bitch, care of bitch and pups, and all injections worming etc. Oh, and the running of heatlamps! He certainally doesnt want any profit here, just healthy pups and bitch, good homes and and end to this whole sorry affair
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Roughly were about are you hun, as i might just be able to run over and give you a brief run down as i live in northampton.
Send me a pm if needs be, i'l do my best to help you out as its not a nice situation to be in.
 
Exactly you said the bitch was to have the pups at home, then you were going to have her. Not that she was going to stay at home with pups to settle for 2 weeks before they were all moved to yours. Had you stated this and that the bitch knew you and your place and was used to sleeping outside, my response would have been different.

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This was a post asking experienced dog owners / breeders for advice

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Perhaps you should have stated that before!!! Anyway FWIW my response was as an experience dog owner and though I have never bred a litter myself, I have also assisted friends with litters etc... .................What ya recon qualified enough?

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not an oppotunity for you to jump on and have a dig again

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FWIW I wasn't having a dig, so knock the chip off your shoulderand grow up!!!! I just think that having a litter is a stressful enough time for a bitch and as I was under the impression she was used to living inside, I believed she should be housed as she was used to being housed. If that ment the only option (and far from ideal as it is) was to sign her over than so be it. IMO the needs of the dog should be put 1st.
 
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We're hoping the cost of what he;ll charge for each pup will cover all costs, including spaying the bitch, care of bitch and pups, and all injections worming etc. Oh, and the running of heatlamps!

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Don't count on it, I hope he has a contingency fund. There were 6 in Ozzie's litter (JRT) and only 3 made it as all bar Oz got wilting puppy syndrome.
 
Katy, just one final thing; is he going to reimburse you for raising these pups? I ask this simply because I was actually pretty shocked at just how expensive puppies are. Because I had to keep the heating on high 24 hours a day for the first 3 or 4 weeks, I spent almost 1K on heating oil. Now I know you probably won't spend as much as England isn't as cold as here, but still, it will cost you. Once the pups went out to the dogroom and I was using the heatlamp, our electricity costs soared!

Puppy food and evaporated milk cost a fair amount over the period of having them and if you are planning to keep them that long then you will have to get them vaccinated which will also cost.

Newspapers; as FLH says, DO save them up now! You won't have enough as you don't have enough time to save them, however it might be worthwhile asking all of your friends and family to save theirs too.

I had my vet on the end of the phone when Lil was birthing, as I had a problem with one of the pups. She said there was nothing anyone could do for it. The other pup who died, couldn't be helped sadly. My vet did not want me taking the puppies into the surgery and she advised me to phone her for any help and if any emergencies arose, she would prefer to come to my house rather than run the risk of the puppies going into the surgery and catching anything. So I'd advise you to contact your vet just to let them know what is happening and ask if it will be okay for you to call for advice/help if needed.

Good luck - hope everything goes well. Can I just ask though; who is going to be with the bitch when she gives birth? There will be someone with her?
 
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If you can't come up with anything constructive (except' sign the bitch over to the RSPCA' ) then p'raps better to say nothing at all. This was a post asking experienced dog owners / breeders for advice not an oppotunity for you to jump on and have a dig again

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LMAO now....................

Is CALA experienced enough???............Now what did she say?

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...........if he cannot do this and provide homes later in life, if they need returning, then he should at present hand/sign them over to a rescue, who will have more experience in whelping, and can offer life long back up for the puppies and spay the

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Hmmmmmmm are you going to abuse her now?? No I thought not.
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The needs of the dog DO need to be put first, you're right. She knows us well (I should have stated this to begin with...) and has visited us many times. How many people can say that upon breeding dogs both them and their partner planned stay at home? SHE was going to stay at home, SHE left. So in all it's her to blame for this mess. SHE wanted the pups too.

In this instance, signing the bitch over to the RSPCA or placing her with strangers isnt the best option.
 
Yes Tia, she's due to give birth any day, and he's got Christmas and new year off work, thankfully.

He's said he'll pay all costs, and as for my time... I give that freely, because it;s family.

My head's pretty hectic atm, just trying to get as much info as possible, whilst talking with OH (he has never owned a dog his whole life
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) who is on one hand worrying if we keep them indoors that the cats will up sticks and leave home (his beloved spoilt cats
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) and on the other worrying that straw and heat lamps make a dangerous mix
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.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you can't come up with anything constructive (except' sign the bitch over to the RSPCA' ) then p'raps better to say nothing at all. This was a post asking experienced dog owners / breeders for advice not an oppotunity for you to jump on and have a dig again

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO now....................

Is CALA experienced enough???............Now what did she say?

[ QUOTE ]
...........if he cannot do this and provide homes later in life, if they need returning, then he should at present hand/sign them over to a rescue, who will have more experience in whelping, and can offer life long back up for the puppies and spay the

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmmmmm are you going to abuse her now?? No I thought not.
smirk.gif


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*sigh*
 
Problem with straw (unless you've made it yourself) is it can have come off of a farm with Parvo virus so it can carry that, it can also contain fleas and numerous other mites.
 
Hi,

I can't add much more than anyone else has told you. First of all good luck to everyone - that area under your stairs sounds ideal. Give it a good clean with something like Virkon first.

When you first move the bitch and pups to your house make sure there is plenty of blankets that come from your relatives house so that they smell the same etc - otherwise is may upset her quite a bit and make the pups really confussed as obviously they are relying still on their sense of smell. Heats pads are brilliant - you can get ones that you stick in the microwave for between 3-5mins and they last up to 12 hours - it means they can move away from them if they wish.

Plenty of good quality puppy food for mum now and good luck
 
Just to add my two-pennith worth. Moving the bitch and litter at two weeks of age isn't a great idea as in addition to stressing the bitch, you will be moving them all into an environment which they will not have chance to build any immunity to.
 
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